A simple question to honest believers.

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posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 08:05 PM
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There is a notion that suggests believers who follow organized religions are 100% in agreement with their sacred texts, their doctrines and teachings. But since faith, interests, interpretation, perception, research, logic, open-mind and even intelligence varies from person to person (among many other things like culture, age, education etc) It´s fair to say this may not be the case. (This may also apply to Atheists, but that can be explored later)

In theory we may all be believing quite different ¨truths¨ even if this truth is labeled under the same icon, avatar, or holy name.

We just don´t believe the in the same Jesus, Allah or Yawheh even if the message, name and ¨form¨ is apparently the same simply because we process all this information differently, filtering it through character, needs, emotions ect. For example, your Jesus may be ok with gays, but the person next to you in church may believe otherwise.

Still with me? Good

I can´t say I am a believer or a non-believer. All I can say is I am trying to find the most undiluted possible truth that my ego can tolerate at this stage of my journey. I do admire the core teachings of the great illuminated, saints and prophets, particularly those of Jesus Christ and for the most part, they make sense to me. HOWEVER when put in the context of religion, they start to make less sense to me, in some (most) cases, none whatsoever.

The need for sacrifices, war, dominion, power, luxury, eating the flesh of animals, judgement, favoritism, awkward laws and violence seem to be the needs of a very primitive God, and quite frankly make zero sense to me in the context of a loving God and Savior. So, in other words, the bible as a whole (picked apart it does have wonderful parts) contradicts everything I believe to be good, holy and sacred. Jesus words however, resonate deep inside my soul.

So there, that´s my generalized example. Christ makes sense to me but the bible does not.

Now I need a brave, honest believer to volunteer and answer the following questions.

Is there anything within your chosen faith/sacred book/doctrine you don´t agree with? Are there any parts that are a bit more difficult to digest? Does any of the information found within the teachings contradict any of your core ethics or morality?

Thank you for your time!




posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 08:10 PM
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Read the Kybalion.

All streams flow to rivers that flow to lakes and back to the ocean.

Language can only get you so far

Peace



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 08:21 PM
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reply to post by lupodigubbio
 


I don't say I'm religious, I say I'm spiritual. I do not believe in the bible one bit. I take bits and pieces from other religions but I'm mainly all about the common sense to it of as long as it doesn't hurt yourself or anyone else it's ok but if it hurts yourself or someone else then it's not ok. I also believe in Karma.
I believe there is a higher being who created life in it's simplest single cell structure and set things in motion. I don't know it's name, if it has one, I don't know if it's an alien that we called God(s) because we could not fathom what we saw. I just believe there is a higher being through personal experiences that have happened in my life.

I don't know enough about the religions out there but I don't agree with stuff that the Catholic church believes in or Christian or Presbyterian. Religion has been corrupted or is a complete fabricated corrupt entity used to control the people. I do know that the Church has held back the advancement of civilization with their dogmatic views.
You'll find the most hypocritical people go to a church.
That's why I just stick with my Spiritual beliefs.



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 08:23 PM
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reply to post by lupodigubbio
 


I am like you a Jesus Christ Man. I am not nor have I ever been a Christian. I viewed Christians with disdain in the past. My Soul talked to Jesus on it's own accord in meditation one day against my control. the thought pops in, "Jesus Christ please come into my heart."

I am Filled with Love.

After this Jesus came to me in a Dream. I at this point was becoming enlightened, and thought I was better than other people. He brought me down about 30 pegs. Very Stern. Then he comforted me, everything is always ok. forgive your self for being a dick.

To this day I walk with God in the Temple (My Body).

Love All. We are All I AM.

~Dusty
edit on 4/8/2012 by Dustytoad because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 08:28 PM
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reply to post by lupodigubbio
 



Dear lupodigubbio,



There is a notion that suggests believers who follow organized religions are 100% in agreement with their sacred texts, their doctrines and teachings. But since faith, interests, interpretation, perception, research, logic, open-mind and even intelligence varies from person to person (among many other things like culture, age, education etc) It´s fair to say this may not be the case. (This may also apply to Atheists, but that can be explored later)


There are a lot of stupid notions around. I believe in God and Christ. I m not organized in any way and preach on the weekends. The question you should be asking is not about an organized religion, it is about God. Is there a greater self awareness than you? There are too many idiots that want to argue the bible, lets get beyond it, nobody knows God perfectly and the New Testament says that. The most simple question is "Are you the only sentient being that exists or are there others?"

Believe, don't believe, have a nice life. You have two beliefs to choose from, we are merely mechanical awareness and then we die or we are sentient beings that never die. Both choices present challenges. I have a problem with saying that I don't exist, what and who I am requires effort to understand. I feel, therefore I am. I think, therefore I can control my emotions. Pretty simple. After that, where do we go from here. I don't exist and I die; means,have the fun while you can and nothing matters. Is that really all you think you are? You matter. For a second, for a year, you matter for eternity. Peace.



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 08:28 PM
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reply to post by lupodigubbio
 



Dear lupodigubbio,



There is a notion that suggests believers who follow organized religions are 100% in agreement with their sacred texts, their doctrines and teachings. But since faith, interests, interpretation, perception, research, logic, open-mind and even intelligence varies from person to person (among many other things like culture, age, education etc) It´s fair to say this may not be the case. (This may also apply to Atheists, but that can be explored later)


There are a lot of stupid notions around. I believe in God and Christ. I m not organized in any way and preach on the weekends. The question you should be asking is not about an organized religion, it is about God. Is there a greater self awareness than you? There are too many idiots that want to argue the bible, lets get beyond it, nobody knows God perfectly and the New Testament says that. The most simple question is "Are you the only sentient being that exists or are there others?"

Believe, don't believe, have a nice life. You have two beliefs to choose from, we are merely mechanical awareness and then we die or we are sentient beings that never die. Both choices present challenges. I have a problem with saying that I don't exist, what and who I am requires effort to understand. I feel, therefore I am. I think, therefore I can control my emotions. Pretty simple. After that, where do we go from here. I don't exist and I die; means,have the fun while you can and nothing matters. Is that really all you think you are? You matter. For a second, for a year, you matter for eternity. Peace.



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 08:35 PM
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My answer to your question:

The religions I explored and engaged to the farthest reaches of my human effort proved to be the invaluable set of metaphoric exposures required to get me over to the other side, where now human effort on my part is an impedance to the Communion. Hidden within these texts are the catalysts for every soul to attain the Presence. The literal presentation is for the 2 dimensional minded ones so they will at least behave themselves to some degree in this 4 dimensional world until that moment takes place, if ever.



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 08:47 PM
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I go to church periodically when i feel like it. Catholic
Today, i wanted to go to easter mass. I am 27 years old and I wanted to be different. i had lazy pj- like pants, long tee red shirt, addidas red and black shoes and a angel crying t shirt. felt like scarying some people on easter. I went outside of the door and took a deep breath, wanted to prove that God accepts all, because he does. Then I realize that I was acting like I was 17 years old, (everyone was in their nice traditional clothing)

Truth is, organize religion is obsolete and has been since 1970s (duri9ng the occult era) and has been growing (since the gnostic books) through modern world. Internet also helps in this acheivement. a sorta of collective conciousness online.
I dont have to accept the entireity of all doctrine to form a belief I have my own. I also believe that combining all religions (maybe minus a few which is not completely bias or misinformed i just see not justifiable "greater good")

The church and God are two different thngs. One is forced in a 4x4 wall surronded by money hungry denominations . That may only get about 30% donation in some 3rd world country such as africa or parts of south america, when honestly people can sign up for peta or the peace core, (why did I say peta????) lol

So we help the poor, the poor can be in any country and that is also the issue, the global elite and people such as myself stuck in perpetual unemployment.

Faith is like snow flakes.
ultimately


So what does contradict my core belief and morals? I use catholic (christianity) as a ground base for my belief that extends to parts of Buddhism, Judaism, essenic teachings, partial gnostic and metaphysical prayer/meditation

Because the bible does make sense, when you realize that it is not the original bible that was created by the hands of moses, but created through priest that edited his work. Why else would the bible we had be massively publicized in 200 B.C. i would make a "forge edited portion, slim cut down oral tradition" say it is from moses (because it pretty much in some terms is). and say its Gods word. if I was a rabbi, I edit the original and make a spark note version, (save the complete version for myself so i can still have all this power and only break off a quarter of the TRUE word)

Pretty much when you realize that a 2nd women (lilith) is inside the bible or was edited out you realize this. Lillith is probably the key to this speculation

edit on 8-4-2012 by Jordan River because: (no reason given)
edit on 8-4-2012 by Jordan River because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 08:54 PM
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Originally posted by tkwasny
My answer to your question:

The religions I explored and engaged to the farthest reaches of my human effort proved to be the invaluable set of metaphoric exposures required to get me over to the other side, where now human effort on my part is an impedance to the Communion. Hidden within these texts are the catalysts for every soul to attain the Presence. The literal presentation is for the 2 dimensional minded ones so they will at least behave themselves to some degree in this 4 dimensional world until that moment takes place, if ever.


Dear tkwasny,

Do you exist, are you real, answer that simple question. You cannot pick a religion if you don't know who you are.



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 08:57 PM
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reply to post by Jordan River
 


Dear Jordan River,

I do hope I got this correct.



. I am 27 years old and I wanted to be different.


If there is a truth, do you want to know it or be different?



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 08:58 PM
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Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by Jordan River
 


Dear Jordan River,

I do hope I got this correct.



. I am 27 years old and I wanted to be different.


If there is a truth, do you want to know it or be different?


Truth is difference, most of those in the bible were outcasted from Daniel, david to JTB. Tell me one person who wasn't considered different?
edit on 8-4-2012 by Jordan River because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 09:05 PM
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Originally posted by lupodigubbio

Is there anything within your chosen faith/sacred book/doctrine you don´t agree with?


Apparently none of the believers here agree with jesus with Luke 18:22:


22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

23 And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.

24 And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!



If they would agree with their star character, NONE of them would be here on an online forum typing on a computer because they would have SOLD their computer along with everything else that they own and then gave the money to the poor. Buts thats only if they were "real" Christians according to jesus and the bible!!

Fake Christians... looks like there will be NO "heaven" for them!


edit on 8-4-2012 by HangTheTraitors because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 09:07 PM
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1. I believe the Word of God is the Bible.
2. I believe the Bible is Divinely inspired.
3. Humans do not have the bible in their possession.

Think about your favorite book. Now imagine that every chapter in the book was written by a different person. Now take out every fifth chapter and arbitrarily rearrange the others. Now translate it into another language, bury it for a few centuries, and have it retranslated back into your language after another fifth of the chapters are removed. BUT- have it translated by someone who has an agenda, who can choose either of two words to complete an idea.

There isnt' a chance that the book you remember would be the same. The Apocrypha is what we know is missing from the bible. What is missing that we DONT know? I think we have part of the bible, not all of it. Therefor, it is open to individual interpretation until it is whole.



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 09:08 PM
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reply to post by lupodigubbio
 


I have been a Christian for about seven years now, and I can say that I am more in agreement with what I read today than I was when I began to walk with the Lord. As I have grown and developed and studied the Bible (lots of ups and downs I might add) I have learned the why of all of these seemingly sensless rules and regulations. If you like Jesus, then you are on the right path, but remember, He said that He didn't come to abolish the law, but to fulfill, so Jesus is not standing in opposition to Moses, He actually makes sense of Moses' law! For instance, today is Easter (or Resurrection day) for Christians, and the Passover celebration for the Jew. The passover lamb that God required of Moses in the book of Exodus is pointing to the Messiah who would come to take away the sin of the world (John 1:36), and as you read through the New Testament, you will see the authors making sense of the Old Testament law. So while you may not agree with what a religion teaches, ask yourself, "why don't I agree?" If Jesus is the Son of God, am I in a place to declare to Him what is moral and what isn't?

Before I believed I was very skeptical of religion in general, and as I studied the different beliefs. I had a ton of issues with all of them, but I had to ask myself, if this is the truth then who am I to contest it? There are a lot of things I don't like about the world, but if I am seeking truth, then what I feel about it is irrelevant. Hope this is of some help. And when examining a belief system of any sort, look at the core tenants firs, then look at the religion it is attached to; don't let the bad apples in the bunch tarnish your view of the core aspects of it.



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 09:31 PM
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reply to post by lupodigubbio
 


I like the way you think - I mean, I have a hatred for Religion like no one else. I literally resent it. I wish it never happened. On the flip-side, I do believe in Sin, I love Jesus, and believe he's the Son of God, the only begotten Son, and through BELIEVING IN HIM (only believing), then we are saved. Not through works or otherwise, I'll discuss more below.


Is there anything within your chosen faith/sacred book/doctrine you don´t agree with? Are there any parts that are a bit more difficult to digest? Does any of the information found within the teachings contradict any of your core ethics or morality?

I am a Christian. I follow Christ. At least I try to - I am not perfect, I am a hypocrite. I stole something today, and am not proud of it, and definitely regret it. I do, however, believe in Jesus - and that through him, I am saved and am going to Heaven. Make no mistake, I don't replace Grace for Permission. I know that it is not God who punishes me, but that my sin will catch up to me. I cannot be perfect, but I can try to "work out the old man", as the Bible says.

So, to directly answer your question - My chosen Faith is believing in God/Jesus/Holy Spirit, I believe in the Bible FULLY, word for word. I agree with 100% of it. Before someone comes in and condemns me for believing I think it's okay to Rape someone (for example), well, you're mistaken - I know what particular scripture people love to throw out, and it's always, ALWAYS, miss-interpreted. Slavery, for example, was not the same back then as it is in say, African-american history. They were more of servants, who were taken care of, and WILLINGLY went as servants (usually in the case that they could not afford to live by themselves).

I always compare scripture with scripture, NEVER scripture with OPINION. If someone hates gays, their Jesus will hate gays too. My Jesus loves everyone, regardless. Not because of MY opinion, but because of what the Bible says.



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 10:10 PM
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reply to post by lupodigubbio
 


I am a christian and i do believe in the bible but i keep in mind that there have probably been things inserted by just regular people that arent really inspired by God. Like, for instance, Hell. I mean i think there is an awful afterlife for muderers and terrible people. The only thing that gets me is that in the bible it says that God has unending love and loves you more than any human is capable of loving someone, but according to the bible he sends his children to hell just for not praying a certain prayer asking jesus into your heart. That is just hard for me to believe because i KNOW that no matter what i did or how mean i was to them, my parents would never ever send me to a place to suffer FOREVER. I mean according to the bible there arent even any second chances. So i think that many of the things about Hell were put in the bible to scare people into acting good.



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 10:24 PM
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The Bible itself is full of the same contradictions with Jesus at one point saying the Old Laws (re-laws in Old Testament) are null and void. Another section saying that all things in the old testament are going strong.

Since today is Easter I will mention the contradictions just relating to that one important biblical event:



* There was one angel present: Matthew 28:2
* There were two angels present: John 20:11-12
* There was a young man present: Mark 16:5
* The angel rolled the stone away from the tomb: Mathew 28:2
* The stone was already rolled away from the tomb: Luke 24:2, John 20:1, Mark 16:4
* Mary and Mary Magdalene found the body was missing: Matthew 28:1, Luke 24:1-3
* Simon, Peter and an unnamed disciple found the body was missing: John 20:6-7
* Mary, Mary Magdalene, and Salome found the body was missing: Mark 16:1-8
* Mary and Mary Magdalene told the disciples what they saw: Matthew 28:8, Luke 24:9
* Mary, Mary Magdalene and Salome told no one what they saw: Mark 16:8
* Mary Magdalene told Simon, Peter and an unnamed disciple what she saw: John 20:1-2
* Jesus appeared first to Mary Magdalene in the tomb: John 20:10-18
* Jesus appeared first to Mary Magdalene after she left the tomb: Mark 16:9
* Jesus appeared first to Mary and Mary Magdalene outside the tomb: Matthew 28:8-10
* Jesus appeared first to Cleopas and Simon on the road to Emmaus: Luke 24:13-35



It is not surprising that so many people view God as themselves only better.

---EDIT
The bit about "Themselves only better" stems from the idea or presentation that "God" says and means exactly what the believer already believes and wants. Part of the "Thousand God Phenomenon".

I realized after I wrote it that it had an unintended overly negative sound to it.
edit on 8-4-2012 by lordtyp0 because: Clarification
edit on 8-4-2012 by lordtyp0 because: typo



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 10:31 PM
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reply to post by Jordan River
 


Dear Jordan River,

Job.



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 10:37 PM
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reply to post by lupodigubbio
 



Is there anything within your chosen faith/sacred book/doctrine you don´t agree with?


No...

Love seems to work perfectly... though its hard to perfect


Are there any parts that are a bit more difficult to digest?


Turn the other cheek...

Never been good at that one... but im learning...


Does any of the information found within the teachings contradict any of your core ethics or morality?


No...

They are the only flawless part of the bible...




posted on Apr, 9 2012 @ 06:55 AM
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Originally posted by lupodigubbio

So there, that´s my generalized example. Christ makes sense to me but the bible does not.

Now I need a brave, honest believer to volunteer and answer the following questions.

Is there anything within your chosen faith/sacred book/doctrine you don´t agree with? Are there any parts that are a bit more difficult to digest? Does any of the information found within the teachings contradict any of your core ethics or morality?

Thank you for your time!


If I may, there is/are many different concerns that should be addressed when considering this matter.

For the English Reader, one of the greatest concerns is the Linguistics and the ability one has to check back to the Original Text.

There is ONLY ONE English Bible I am aware of that has the tools available to do this. The King James 1611 Bible.

The tool would be the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance.

One, without the other, leaves the reader with only the Dogmas, Doctrines and Theologies of Man to aquire the "meanings".

You can see this in the smattering of responses so far. Some here have clearly expressed they take this and that and ignored the balance. So be it, but that wasn't why the Letter (edited as it has been) from GOD to you, was inspired.

This brings us to a second aspect of this. I was raised Pentecostal, and I can say that I saw this manner of teaching was applied. Taking a verse, and finding another verse, twist in an life lesson tale, and close with another verse to teach Dogma, Doctrine and Theology to the Sheep. Things such as Rapture Theory, GOD Created the Earth in 6 Days (144 Hours), All people are Descended from Adam and Eve, The Races are a result of SIN, The whole Earth was Rinsed Clean and ONLY Noah and his family survived the flood, and I can go on and on and on.

Point is, NO WHERE is it ever indicated within the Scriptures that any of these Dogmas, Doctrines, and Theologies of Man are infact true. In most cases they are in a direct conflict with the Bible and HIS teachings.

Now, with that said, I have no difficulties with believing the Letter GOD left for me. I use the 1611 Bible and the Strong's Concordance together, and can study the BIBLE, apposed to being told what is within that letter by others with their own agendas to address.

And for the cry that may arise from within ATS over the 1611 Bible and it's errors, and that there are better translated versions, to each their own. Again, it is the matter of study that is MY CONCERN, and pretty fuzzy speak tomes that lack any credibility or means to verify such isn't something you can study. You sure can read them, but it's again "trusting" someone else and their Dogmas, Doctrines, and Theologies that are sculpted with further twisting of words or phrases.

Keep inmind this. When Christ was Tempted by Satan, that Devil Quoted Scripture verbatim with only supple changes to the context, and attempted to sway Christ into acting out on those Verses he (Satan) crafted. As we all know, that didn't work out but what did he think was going to happen?

This brings me to another concern, in respects to the New and Old Testament. Today, The Church teach of Christ and His message. But His Message, is taken out of context, when it is removed from the Balance of the Bible.

Christ is the LIVING WORD OF GOD, and came here to fulfill Prophesy. He even states this along with clarifying He was NOT here to change the Law.

But the Church doesn't teach the Law anymore. Nor do they Teach Prophesy. (They are going to be Raptured, so it doesn't matter that they need to teach the balance of the book). Jesus Saves, that's all you need to know.


So if Christ makes sense to you but the bible does not, your only problem is not understanding Jesus is the LIVING word humanized. He is those texts alive in flesh and blood.

I also noted in a few responses, about ones ability to accept the Bible seeing it has been translated from translations of Translations of the Original Text, with this or that cut out. The removal of the Apocrypha is a loss, but that doesn't mean one shouldn't read these texts. They hold truths that may have been in conflict with the Set Dogmas, Doctrines and Theologies that MAN wished to promote so to the curb they went.

I will also note, that despite some of the concerns expressed, they did find a Scroll in the Dead Sea Scrolls which VERBATIM matched the Isaiah Text that had been passed on through time and is found even today within the 1611 Bible. There were no misquotes carried through the time from when this located Scroll was scribed to the present.

I do not know if any of this helps or not, but remember, the Bible and Christ are the Same Thing. GOD's gifts to You.

Ciao

Shane

Stopped due to Space Limits....





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