Ron Paul and Abortion " My thoughts" Please contribute

Originally posted by yoyoyoyo
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

Have it your way...I support the wholesale murder of unborn babies almost as much as I support rounding Americans born between the years of 1943-1960 into Soylent Green processing facilities as soon possible...the sooner the better on the latter.

You've really lost it. Haven't you?

It's a literary device called sarcasm, goofball.

Now if you'll excuse me...the Green Lantern movie told me to join Church of Satan and my fellow worshippers of evil and I are planning on trying to summon Asmodeus to assist us in persuading Congress to build an Ikea-sized 24/7 Abortionplex in all 3,033 counties in the United States with Federal money raised solely from taxing churches and bible sales.

It's the only answer your willing to hear...even when somebody swaps 20+ posts with you stating the exact opposite. Congratulations...you win. You have made me see the "evil" of my ways and I accept it. Go ahead and forward that post to your church newsletter or whatever so you can all pat yourselves on the back and confirm your worst fears about Lucifer winning the "war in heaven" or whatever.

See what I care.

Originally posted by yoyoyoyo
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

I think your lying to make yourself feel better about your stance...

40-50 people , I bet in reality it's more like 4-5 that you have asked the questions if they rather have been aborted than born...

I'm not at all surprised you were too lazy to read my posts in their entirety which clearly stated that I participated in groups with both my cousin and my wife which consisted of other adopted people who were very actively searching for their birth parents....which was incidentally also how I was able to meet such an extraordinary number of people who were adopted as infants.

Originally posted by yoyoyoyo
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

It sound's like your talking about yourself, and if you could please reply to the comment I made before this one. That would be great. I just don't see how you've asked 40-50 adopted kids-adults whatever if they rather be aborted than living and all of them gave you the said yes...

Just doesn't seem right.

While admittedly, I wasn't at any time conducting a formal scientific survey...it was actually incredibly easy to obtain this information from so many adopted people. Fortunately, the topic of abortion frequently came up in conversation since all those "family values" nutcases have been unsuccessfully pushing the issue to the forefront of American Consciousness each and every election cycle for the last 40 years or so.

...and of course it doesn't "seem right" to you. Because if it "seemed right" you might have to admit that you do not live in an absurdly simplistic world of "good guys" and "bad guys" that your religion and The Green Lantern movie demands of you.

It must "the devil" or "witches" trying to trick you or something, right?

reply to post by milominderbinder


Murder is always wrong.
So is adopting or fostering children and abusing them.

reply to post by yoyoyoyo


I'm more pro-life than I am religious. I am a person my friends like to confide in and have talked to numerous women about their abortions.

There is a strange, sick pattern in their stories that I've noticed: the women who felt they needed it out of medical necessity are usually FAR, FAR, FAR more torn up about it then the women who did it for convenience reasons.

When I first realized this, it completely surprised me. The fact is there's something there that's more than a sperm or egg alone and is more than a hair cell or an insect. Its a unique potential human being at the very least.

I think it takes serious self dilution to not be able to acknowledge that moral dilemma.

Originally posted by Clearskies
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

Murder is always wrong.
So is adopting or fostering children and abusing them.

"Murder" isn't wrong when it's euthanasia.

Originally posted by snusfanatic
reply to post by yoyoyoyo

 

There is a strange, sick pattern in their stories that I've noticed: the women who felt they needed it out of medical necessity are usually FAR, FAR, FAR more torn up about it then the women who did it for convenience reasons.

I think it takes serious self dilution to not be able to acknowledge that moral dilemma.

That's not even a little bit strange. It makes perfect sense. The women who do it out a medical necessity presumably want to have those children. Of course they would be more torn up about an abortion than a woman who got became pregnant due to failed contraception, rape, incest, etc.

That's my point entirely. Everybody loses when an unwanted child is born...irrespective of it's ultimately adopted or not. The mother has a child she resents, the child either grows up being unwanted or pawned off to a miserably failed adoption system, and society gets to pay for all of these unwanted kids in the form of the absurdly higher rates of addiction, crime, and recidivism which goes part-and-parcel with being raised or passed around as a burden instead of an actual human being.

To me, the moral dilemma is really about the suffering that comes with being unwanted. I feel that death is much more preferable and humane.

reply to post by milominderbinder


That's not the norm I've experienced with adoption. Two of my cousins are adopted, one is about to become a doctor and the other is doing pretty well in highschool. I'm sure there's abusive foster parents just like there are abusive natural parents, but deciding for someone that they are better off dead then growing up with their non-biological parents seems pretty extreme. If being 'unwanted' is such a god-awful life, we might as well outlaw adoption now and then argue about abortion later

I also don't sympathize with the hypothetical person you've dreamed up who's resentment for a child would outlast and overpower any kind of love or adaptation for almost 2 decades straight. I take issue with the adoption issue only because I'd rather be alive and abused for a period in my life than to never have a life. But I take issue with the resentment because I don't see it as realistic at all.

Of course there would be a lot of painful decisions involved, but that's no different than the way it is now. Abortion may represent a saving grace for some people that cuts off all the difficult decisions down the road, but just because you bundle the ultimate wrong (taking of a life) at one point in time, doesn't mean the situation ACTUALLY becomes less tragic.

reply to post by milominderbinder


I stand by my earlier statement, You have lost it...

Murder is never ok. That's where your wrong. Never. Your not God, Don't act like one by taking the life of your brother or sister. You we're not the one that gave life...

Reminds me of the adam and eve parable. Where eve tricks adam into biting into the forbidden fruit...

Abortion reminds me of this as well.

Hook, Line , Sinker... I feel these women are being duped. And anyone believing abortion is pro-choice is being duped...


Lastly I don't go to church, but I believe in God.

Originally posted by yoyoyoyo
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

Murder is never ok. That's where your wrong. Never.

But...you already said that murder was A-OK in warfare and euthanasia? So which is it? You're the one who believes that flaming shrubbery gave stone tablets to runaway slave that stated "Thou shalt not kill"...was there a little known asterisk that allows you to murder hundreds of thousands of perfectly innocent Iraqi civilians?

Your not God, Don't act like one by taking the life of your brother or sister.

Nope. I'm better than God...I actually exist.

You we're not the one that gave life...

Ummm...yes I am. Just as the female I have procreated with gave life.

Reminds me of the adam and eve parable. Where eve tricks adam into biting into the forbidden fruit...

You should probably read the religious text you profess to "believe" in sometime. The story of Adam and Eve is an Allegory...not a Parable. Secondly, the magical talking snake tricked Eve into eating the apple and Eve tempted Adam into doing the same. If you are getting so confused on the first chapter of your own religious text, it's no wonder you are taking cues on Moral Philosophy from poorly crafted film adaptations of comic books.

I feel these women are being duped. And anyone believing abortion is pro-choice is being duped...
Lastly I don't go to church, but I believe in God.

Great. And the rational world who doesn't believe in boogeymen, Santa Claus, Zeus, or "God", would strongly encourage you to actually read the bible in it's entirety including the apocryphal texts along with the Columbia History of the World and then sit back and watch you try to explain why you believe what you believe.

It would be a great show.

Originally posted by snusfanatic
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

That's not the norm I've experienced with adoption. Two of my cousins are adopted, one is about to become a doctor and the other is doing pretty well in highschool. I'm sure there's abusive foster parents just like there are abusive natural parents, but deciding for someone that they are better off dead then growing up with their non-biological parents seems pretty extreme. If being 'unwanted' is such a god-awful life, we might as well outlaw adoption now and then argue about abortion later

Excellent idea...I'm all for getting rid of adoption except in cases where a minor's parents die after they are born. Although...I gotta say...I'm not in any way arrogant enough to profess that my opinion is so inherently righteous that it ought to be law, so I can't get behind the idea that we legislate it. However, advocating abortion over adoption is a splendid idea.

I also don't sympathize with the hypothetical person you've dreamed up who's resentment for a child would outlast and overpower any kind of love or adaptation for almost 2 decades straight. I take issue with the adoption issue only because I'd rather be alive and abused for a period in my life than to never have a life. But I take issue with the resentment because I don't see it as realistic at all.

Ummm...this person isn't "hypothetical". Producing unwanted offspring is endemic to modern American history. Likewise...I can only assume that you were both wanted as a child as well as have no idea what it's like to be abused as one. You can "get over" being spanked or your parents shooing you outside to play because they have a headache. You do not get over growing up in a household in which you have been despised, resented, and hated from birth. I'm upset that you had such a wonderful childhood...I just ask you to not be so naive and arrogant as to assume that everybody (or even a majority of people) have it as good as you did. What you view as stealing a child's chance at life...I view as stealing a child's chance at dying with dignity.

Of course there would be a lot of painful decisions involved, but that's no different than the way it is now. Abortion may represent a saving grace for some people that cuts off all the difficult decisions down the road, but just because you bundle the ultimate wrong (taking of a life) at one point in time, doesn't mean the situation ACTUALLY becomes less tragic.

Again...we see things far, far, differently. I don't believe that taking a life is the "ultimate wrong" nor do I view abortion as an act that is irresponsible. I think the "ultimate wrong" is to give birth a living being you have no interest in raising and caring for or giving birth to a living being and then promptly abandoning it and just assuming it will all work out OK because of what Jesus said, or whatever. To me...that's irresponsible, cruel, and heartless.

I mean...we criticize people for buying "christmas puppies" who are not truly committed to them because it's considered cruel and irresponsible, right? Why do we treat dogs better than people? Nobody likes to think about putting down puppies...but it beats the hell out of a lifetime of emotional neglect for the dog...right?

reply to post by milominderbinder


Yes, killing a human being is worse than 'bringing them into a cruel world.' I'm going to assume there's some deep personal stuff behind this, wish you well and gracefully bow out of the discussion.

reply to post by milominderbinder


Your out of your mind, You believe your better than "God"... Yes your better than false gods your right...

Also your putting words in my mouth, I never condoned warfare or euthanasia...

Your losing your argument.

Good will always prevail. Satanists will lose.

Lastly my friend, I'm sorry for your poor up bringing.... May our God smile upon you, You need his grace.

Originally posted by yoyoyoyo
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

Your out of your mind, You believe your better than "God"... Yes your better than false gods your right...

Also your putting words in my mouth, I never condoned warfare or euthanasia...

Your losing your argument.

Good will always prevail. Satanists will lose.

Lastly my friend, I'm sorry for your poor up bringing.... May our God smile upon you, You need his grace.

edit on 22-4-2012 by yoyoyoyo because: Lastly*

edit on 22-4-2012 by yoyoyoyo because: one more edit not the god , our God

You said earlier, that you never sought out to demean anyone.

This is a diatribe. Nothing more.

Your god speaks of "judge not, lest ye be judged".

I wonder how your heart stack up to your own judgement, because that's the only one you really need to care about.

And when you ask for people's thoughts in the thread - don't invite them In then absolutely demean them.

Your approach is come across as very unchristian.

reply to post by selfharmonise


I still am not looking to demean anyone,

This is a diatribe. Nothing more.

Thanks for your opinion, I believe it's became a fruitful discussion showing where both sides stand on the issue.

Your god speaks of "judge not, lest ye be judged".

I don't know what your talking about, I don't take the bible for literal meaning. I trust my heart in this situation.

And when you ask for people's thoughts in the thread - don't invite them n then absolutely demean them.

I'm not demeaning anyone, I said may God smile upon him... He's had a hard life and he has shared his poor up bringing with us... So I'm praying for him, not reprimanding.

Your approach is come across as very unchristian.

Well I'm not christian, but I believe in God. And I'm trying to have as much respect for each and every person even if they have none for me... To be disrespectful in a discussion, only IMO shows your losing your argument...

Or maybe just losing your cool, Either way you need to be respectful IMO even to people you don't know IRL, that you talk to on the internet via ATS.

+energy to all. And if anyone has found disrespect in what i've said I'm sorry. It's not meant to be disrespectful, but thought provoking.

My friends, + energy will prevail. Don't give up.

Originally posted by yoyoyoyo
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

Your out of your mind, You believe your better than "God"... Yes your better than false gods your right...

.
All gods are false. Why is Zeus, Thor, and Apollo considered "mythology" and yet you treat the Judeo-Christian "god" as though it's somehow real? It makes no sense. You have an equal amount of tangible evidence for the existence of your "god" as you do of Poseidon.

Good will always prevail. Satanists will lose.

Really? Because from where I'm sitting it seems like the only people who have "prevailed" through the lion's share of human history seem to be mighty "evil".

Lastly my friend, I'm sorry for your poor up bringing.... May our God smile upon you, You need his grace.

No...you are not sorry for my or anyone else's poor upbringing. If you were, or if you had any clue what it is like to be unwanted from the day you were born. You have not ever experienced the joy at finding your birth parents only to be crushed when you discover that years later...they still don't want you. Just like they didn't want you when you were born and just like the revolving door of foster families never wanted you either.

If you TRULY understood these things beyond being merely an academic concept...you wouldn't seek to condemn more innocent children to that existence any more than you pull out an infants toenails or douse them in kerosene and light match.

You say "murder is murder". I say "torture is torture"....and willfully inflicting pain, misery, and suffering upon someone who has done nothing to you is about as "evil" as it gets.

Have the decency to allow these unwanted kids to die in peace instead of demanding that they suffer so you can feel better about yourself.

Originally posted by yoyoyoyo
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

.... May our God smile upon you, You need his grace.

Oh...one more thing. Keep your ridiculous "god" to yourself. I know you think your being "nice" or something...but it's really quite offensive.

You wouldn't like me saying "May you walk with Satan.", right? To me they are one and the same, with the exception that the world's Satanists have not come even close to the "Godly" folks in terms of racking up corpses in religious wars, burning "witches" alive, and molesting children.

reply to post by milominderbinder


I'm talking about the God that gave you life, And you my friend are filled with hate...

God smiles upon us, He's the one that we serve. This life isn't about us, but about everyone...

When you hurt someone your only hurting yourself. So when you kill someone your only killing yourself.

I'm bringing multi verse into it... I guess...

Also take a chill pill... God is good not evil. What side are you on? good or evil?

I know I have good intentions. What about you?

reply to post by milominderbinder


"May you walk with Satan"

This just made my day.

What makes my day is someone bringing up the concept of the multiverse, and not being able to spell "you're".

That's my bit of demeaning done for today - seems to be the focus of the thread.

Looks like most of the sense has got bored with the prolife, mock-religious die hards posting.

Me too.

Hypocrisy doesn't get you into heaven.

Am off for my run.

Well done on a point collecting thread yoyoyo.

Hope you've got enough to get you a free ticket for the next showing of the green lantern.