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Ron Paul and Abortion " My thoughts" Please contribute

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posted on Apr, 9 2012 @ 07:35 PM
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Also when I went to bed last night and I saw an angel I believe my 3rd eye let me know a little bit. As when I awoke I saw page 14 before I even came to the computer.


I believe we can all see more than our 2 eyes allow us. I have intense dreams, I hope you do too.

It's good to dream about the unborn and the dead. Dream's allow us to experience things we can't experience on this plane.

So I believe I'm in the right place and not wasting my times like some have suggested.

Just trying to put me down and de rail some real evil sh*t. IE ABORTION.

May God forgive me for I am only Human, May my actions help repent for my sins and lead others to the light.

Look for the good in everyone, There's good in everyone even if they are mislead. Evil will mask your eyes and you will see what evil wants you to see.
edit on 9-4-2012 by yoyoyoyo because: dont feed evil.




posted on Apr, 9 2012 @ 07:43 PM
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What if you're a 19 year old girl who missed a few days of birth control,and you became pregnant? What if you never wanted children to begin with? Not having any maternal instincts,and below poverty level income- and you have no one in your life willing to take on the responsibility of raising it? What if you live in an overpopulated country going into a depression, you lose your job, your home, your friends, but your baby is born- and now you've developed a bond with your child. Are you just going to give your baby away, now that you've become attached? Tax cuts taking away the resources and programs that could have aided you... Is it really so immoral then? Is it really murder if it was never even born?



posted on Apr, 9 2012 @ 07:46 PM
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reply to post by yoyoyoyo
 

Abortion is murder, no two ways about it. (That doesn't include ectopic pregnancy, contrary to the uninformed.)
I, my self had one as a teen and couldn't (wouldn't deprive myself to) be a mother. I made $6.30 p/h on a brake and a saw, doing vinyl siding, was a lead singer in different rock bands and was NOT monogamous!
I asked people what i should do and they said i didnt want to raise a child on welfare, so i should get the abortion. NO one even SUGGESTED another way! So i decided to end it and it took me 3 mos to get my part of the money together: My ex-boyfriend paid the other half. There were no people outside saying anything, no people with signs. I signed in and after more signatures (LOTS), I was handed a pamphlet with no images and technical jargon explaining the procedure i was going to have. Couldn't understand any of it!
All i know was that it was a d&c. The next thing i remember, i was talking to an evil entity's face that floated above me and answering it. I felt trapped. When i woke, the nurses were staring at me, because i had been speaking out loud, apparently. They wouldn't come near me or say anything. I immediately had to vomit and went to the bathroom. I composed myself and went towards the exit, where there was a table with crackers and lemon aid. No one said good bye, kiss my %$$ or anything. So, i left and started bleeding so heavily for days that i thought i would have to go to the emergency room.
After that i was scared of the dark at night and always trying to erase that murder from my mind. It didn't work.
I had gone in there thinking that it wasnt a baby, just a blob of flesh. I became agoraphobic, (always thinking people could read into what i had done) and bipolar with psychotic features. (I threatened to kill some people at work for looking at me.)



posted on Apr, 9 2012 @ 07:49 PM
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reply to post by yoyoyoyo
 



The only reason it's a difficult subject is because we allow the murdering of our unborn brothers and sisters, and here we are fighting over if it's right or wrong to kill our brothers and sisters.


No, we aren't, unless your family tree is a pole, we aren't killing our unborn brothers and sisters.


Do unto others as you would have the do unto you. Golden Rule think about it


Well, if you like, we can go old testament. Or if you prefer, Revelations, if we are going the God route. Either way, God is all for the mass slaughter of people. Seriously, read your bible, God is cool with killing, in fact it's one of his all time favorite hobbies, and the reason he made Death in the first place.

As for abortion, it's a personal choice, one that is made by the individual. If you against abortion, I'm cool by that. Be against it. I am pro choice myself. The key word there is Choice. My only son is here because I made a choice with my then wife. I am happy with that choice, I think we made the right choice for us.



posted on Apr, 9 2012 @ 07:54 PM
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reply to post by Clearskies
 


About a year after that, i got pregnant again, in spite of a condom, with the same ex-boyfriend. I decided that i would keep it, no matter what. But, I had a miscarriage anyway and while I mourned (a little) for that baby, there was still closure. Unlike the abortion! I still had mental problems for about 2 more years, until i became a born-again christian. G-d forgave me for the abortion and showed me that there was not just a devil in this world, but his opposite: G-d.



posted on Apr, 9 2012 @ 08:04 PM
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reply to post by yoyoyoyo
 


Whether abortion is done or not , reckless behavior and immorality will continue. In fact , I'm certain that if hormone birth controls and abortions were illegal , you would see unprecedented amounts of immorality and reckless behavior because you will be forcing childbearing upon some of most incapable, unstable and physically unhealthy people. (whereby going off meds would make quite a circus of unnecessary risks, and harms to mother ,fetus and society)



posted on Apr, 9 2012 @ 08:10 PM
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Originally posted by adnachiel21

A question to all the pro lifers,what happens if your daughter gets pregnant and for various reasons decides to get an abortion,what will you do?Disown her?


I would rather my daughter grow up believing I would disown her over killing her child, rather than having a child. Do you see where society has things twisted?



posted on Apr, 9 2012 @ 08:24 PM
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Originally posted by HauntWok
reply to post by yoyoyoyo
 



The only reason it's a difficult subject is because we allow the murdering of our unborn brothers and sisters, and here we are fighting over if it's right or wrong to kill our brothers and sisters.


No, we aren't, unless your family tree is a pole, we aren't killing our unborn brothers and sisters.


Do unto others as you would have the do unto you. Golden Rule think about it


Well, if you like, we can go old testament. Or if you prefer, Revelations, if we are going the God route. Either way, God is all for the mass slaughter of people. Seriously, read your bible, God is cool with killing, in fact it's one of his all time favorite hobbies, and the reason he made Death in the first place.

As for abortion, it's a personal choice, one that is made by the individual. If you against abortion, I'm cool by that. Be against it. I am pro choice myself. The key word there is Choice. My only son is here because I made a choice with my then wife. I am happy with that choice, I think we made the right choice for us.


Personal choice to make the worst mistake in your life. Ya your right. Glad you made the right one.

I mean how many people are happy about getting abortions? 0



posted on Apr, 9 2012 @ 08:26 PM
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reply to post by Clearskies
 


Thank you for sharing, your very courageous to share your personal experience. I commend you and I'll pray for us and the others. (including the non believers)
edit on 9-4-2012 by yoyoyoyo because: had to edit
edit on 9-4-2012 by yoyoyoyo because: one more dit




This story is as personal as it gets, I can't tell you what it means to share as I can not find the words.

Thank You
edit on 9-4-2012 by yoyoyoyo because: (no reason given)


and when I say I commend you I mean from another human being to another human being. just to clarify, because commend to me almost sounds stupid.... i dunno y.
edit on 9-4-2012 by yoyoyoyo because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 9 2012 @ 08:42 PM
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Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by adnachiel21

A question to all the pro lifers,what happens if your daughter gets pregnant and for various reasons decides to get an abortion,what will you do?Disown her?


I would rather my daughter grow up believing I would disown her over killing her child, rather than having a child. Do you see where society has things twisted?


That's pretty intense. A good point as well.



posted on Apr, 9 2012 @ 08:54 PM
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reply to post by Clearskies
 


I'm very sorry about your experience and I'm glad that you got some sort of closure. Many abortion clinics are few and far between ,thereby overcrowded and aren't a very caring environment which is in itself quite traumatic when going through a difficult process. Trauma induced mental illness/instability is very real on both sides of the issue though.

I had a planned pregnancy and suffered horrible depression after delivery in which I contemplated my death, planned out every detail of my funeral , death and Will , right down to the music and all the letters to my loved ones, day in and day out for about a year. Had this been an unplanned pregnancy that was forced on me , I believe my train of thought might have been quite different in a very dangerous way.

I believe that forcing a pregnancy on someone can very well be the tipping point to make a woman "one french fry short of a happy meal " so to speak, and literally crack. We see woman all the time cracking under the pressure and doing out of character , horrible things and these are PLANNED pregnancies or pregnancies where the mother decided that keeping it was the best option.

If we deem hormone contraceptives abortion , than we leave people with the most expensive and unreliable methods of birth control, and the freak show is sure to ensue.



posted on Apr, 9 2012 @ 09:02 PM
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There are so many ways as responsible adults to utilize birth control to avoid an unwanted pregnancy... I do feel however this late term pregnancy abortion is just terrible...not that I personally advocate even earlier stage abortion...but Ive said in my circles men kinda need to just back off from the argument...we have it easy.... women bear the brunt or the birth and the nurturing of children.... and really after all... the newly born are the future of us as the human race... just my thoughts...peace!



posted on Apr, 9 2012 @ 09:29 PM
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Originally posted by windword

The operative word being "your" life. If it's not my life, then whose is it? Why should I be responsible for providing a child to parents whom, for some "god" given reason, have been denied children?


Yes throughout human history this was a non issue. 9 months for being wreckless is a just and good lesson learned. And we are talking about a human life, possibly the one that may cure cancer or create a new science that saves the world.




This is not a fact, it is your, very shallow and insensitive, opinion. What difference should it make to you the reason why a woman chooses not to deliver a child or be a parent. A woman is not a surplus baby making factory for people that , for whatever reason, can't have their own children. Why is it your business what someone else decides to do with THEIR BODY!?!

Selfish narcissistic women willing to commit murder because they have been brainwashed into killing their own children deserve about as much sympathy as any other murderer. If you believe that your not committing murder, then you are a sucker.




Abortion is the easy way to play on this fear and Planned Parenthood has made it emotionally easy as well as physically easy, and they have made it this way to further the depopulation agenda.


GOOD!

More evidence of brainwashing. Drink your fluoride, take ur vaccines, eat ur gmo food, kill your own children and close your eyes to the fact that this agenda is aimed at killing you and your family.



So you don't like logic? Just curious cuz you mention religion, do you support gay couples' right to adopt said child?


I like logic that is based on facts rather than opinion. Your opinion that a zygote is not alive is the cause your logic. Life is defined as any self replicating system, and this parasite as you like to call it is a human self replicating system. Your arguments self contradict, first you say its not a life, then you call it a parasite which of course, is a life. Your just trolling and using diversionary tactics straight out of the troll handball. Raising gay rights is evidence of it.



posted on Apr, 9 2012 @ 09:41 PM
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Originally posted by yoyoyoyo
abortion is murder, your only lying to yourself if you say otherwise.


No it's not. It wasn't murder when abortion was criminalized either. Murder is a legal term with a legal definition. Like manslaughter.


Originally posted by yoyoyoyo
That's why it's called ABORT ion. Meaning a viable LIFE is there and your ending it's life. Late term abortions are even more foul, and people that have them. I pray for you, As you've killed a human being.


Late term abortion are already illegal and only done for health of mother reasons.


Originally posted by yoyoyoyo
Bottom Line Abortion is murder, Because that is a VIABLE LIFE being aborted.


Nope. No more so than spontaneous abortion is manslaughter.


Originally posted by yoyoyoyo
Seriously how can you sleep at night promoting killings of viable embryos. Are we in Africa over here or what?


There has never been any recorded article where a pro-life group picketed outside an IVF clinic. bu-but that's different. No it's not actually.


Originally posted by yoyoyoyo
Also most Planned Parenthoods target minorities. Which isn't a coincidence.


They locate where demand is high. There is a difference.


Originally posted by yoyoyoyo
100% of people that get abortion's try to reason it being normal only masking the true feelings of guilt, depression and loss.


Some loony stat from some pro-life shill researcher no doubt. Statistically most women don't suffer long term, that's been proven again and again (and not just by polls and surveys).

Yet pro-lifers still present fraudulent research claiming otherwise and reference it in their blogs and on their forums. Bearing false witness is not a good starting point to debates involving research-based findings


Originally posted by yoyoyoyo
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Would you like to be aborted, just because your mommy didn't want you?


Abortion is not mentioned specifically in the Bible can only be viewed as tacit permission for humans to make their own judgments on abortion. Abortion is legal in the Jewish faith. Jesus lived under Jewish laws. If it were indeed a sin, the Bible would have specifically condemned it as such. But it doesn't, and humans have no choice but to "play God" on this issue.


Originally posted by yoyoyoyo
What kind of society do we live in today that we allow women to kill our unborn brothers and sisters for no reason?


The type of society that agreed that no one has the right to inhabit someone elses body.

Since the consequences of intercourse only benefited the fertilized egg by bringing it into existence, and fertilization is neither illegal nor negligent, no obligations of the actors can be derived from it. In IVF, do you think creating a dozen "human beings" just so one could eventually be born is justifiable? bu-but that's different!


Originally posted by yoyoyoyo
Move to china where they will force abort your children for you if you have more than one and then tell me how you feel about abortion.


pro choicers don't support that either. So there's something both sides can agree upon.



posted on Apr, 9 2012 @ 09:49 PM
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reply to post by Achey
 


Thanks for joining the conversation. It's refreshing to hear your response.



posted on Apr, 9 2012 @ 09:53 PM
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Originally posted by Achey
Selfish narcissistic women willing to commit murder because they have been brainwashed into killing their own children deserve about as much sympathy as any other murderer. If you believe that your not committing murder, then you are a sucker.


The tragic irony of this is that despite pro-lifers claiming it is murder, don't want women punished as murderers.

Pro-lifers find it unpalatable to punish women as murderers, despite the proclaimed value of the unborn. They really just want to criminilize abortion. Thus, they resolve the dilema of laws which do not reflect the proclaimed value of the unborn in several ways; rationalizations and mitigating circumstances include women seeking abortions are

- depressed
- mentally ill
- severely emotionally disturbed
- didn't know what they were doing ("deluded" by "society")
- "forced" by an third party (usually male i.e. boyfriend/husband)
- will develop post traumatic stress disorder or similar once they found out the "graveness of their decision"
- punish the "hitman" (abortion provider) but not the person who ordered the hit (woman - because she is "mentally ill" or something).

This gets them out of dealing with the real world consequences of their personhood from conception philosophy. They want abortion to be murder but don't want women to be punished as murderers. Having their cake and eating it. That is what most pro-lifers really want.


Originally posted by yoyoyoyo
reply to post by mee30
 


Pure logic sounds like pure ignorance. Life is started at contraception.


spelling.


Originally posted by yoyoyoyo
But on RAPE , I believe it is ultimately their decision.


Contradiction if you're pro-life.


Originally posted by yoyoyoyo
And that also irks me is that everyone brings up rape and abortion. 1% of all abortions I read, are rape related.


so? Pro-choicers aren't claiming they are the majority of cases.

Do you deny someone that got raped an abortion because of stats? If not why mention it? US has a 330million population.



posted on Apr, 9 2012 @ 10:01 PM
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reply to post by igor_ats
 


welcome to the conversation. I think this is the first post from you here. Nice to meet you, I'm an average human being. Don't expect much from me.

I don't have the right response to everything, but my feelings are pure.

Abortion is in no way pure, it's just simply evil and will effect everyone directly or indirectly.

That's why I'm here.



posted on Apr, 9 2012 @ 10:12 PM
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Originally posted by igor_ats

Originally posted by Achey
Selfish narcissistic women willing to commit murder because they have been brainwashed into killing their own children deserve about as much sympathy as any other murderer. If you believe that your not committing murder, then you are a sucker.


The tragic irony of this is that despite pro-lifers claiming it is murder, don't want women punished as murderers.

Pro-lifers find it unpalatable to punish women as murderers, despite the proclaimed value of the unborn. They really just want to criminilize abortion.


"Find it unpalatable"? Not so. I, personally blame the women (AS MUCH AS DOCTORS AND OTHER CONSENTING ADULTS) for killing the child. Boyfriends, parent.
Where did you come up with that?

I am not catholic and am all for pre-pregnancy contraception. Although I rarely used it after I was married.
RU486 is good as a morning after RAPE medication, before the chance of conception. And only under strict medical observation.

Another thing is that the lower classes can rarely afford a child, but you can do anything if you try (and want to).
I only have 3 and am done. (Tubal ligation) "Burnt, cut and soldered", as I like to call it.
edit on 9-4-2012 by Clearskies because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 9 2012 @ 10:15 PM
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I am not siding with either side at this point, I just want that out there.

Lets say a woman has a baby, at the end of that pregnancy had high blood pressure so was induced. Every one is happy and healthy except the high blood pressure of the mother. If she gets pregnant again she would have to stay on the blood pressure meds that may causebirth defects or the mother could go off of her blood pressure meds to ensure no birth defects. However either way the mother may have a stroke, leaving a husband without his wife, one child with out a mother and a family in grief.

We all know bithcontrol is not 100%so dont start the "if they used protection this wouldnt happen" line.

Should the mother go through with the pregnancy knowing that she may die? Or is this a cause where abortion is ok?

In this situation there is no good answer, we al know that, we do not live in a world of black and white, there is a crap load of grey. No one person has the right to judge another, even criminals get a jury. Both sides of this debate can get self righteous, it is easy as this a very emotional subject. The whole walk a mile in their shoes really does apply here. Is everyone who ever got an abortion evil? Are all prolifers good? Abortion clinic bombings prove that all prolifers are not good. The above situation proves not all abortions are evil ( at least I would not call the mother in the above situation evil, to save herself and her first child and all the other family)

Just my thoughts.



posted on Apr, 9 2012 @ 10:22 PM
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Originally posted by igor_ats

Pro-lifers find it unpalatable to punish women as murderers, despite the proclaimed value of the unborn.


Your generalizing. I say punish the whole cabal, mother, doctors and nurses, peers, the media, everybody involved the same as you would any murder or conspiracy to commit murder.

Everybody is anti-murder id hope. This is what the whole thing is about, rationalizing abortion into not being murder and using false logic to justify it.

People who use the standard arguments love to clump everybody into a left/right group associating war/the death penalty/religion etc into the argument. Which is irreverent and incorrect. The idea of right wing/left wing is designed to put only two options on the table.

The debate here is about abortion, not contraception, not gay rights, not religion, not the death penalty.






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