Legit Questions for ATS Liberals…Shed Some Light Please

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posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 10:25 PM
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I don't think any of your questions have anything to do with being a true liberal. Your questions are on the beliefs of liberal elites, that are not true liberals IMO.


1) Homosexuality and Muslims - Devote Muslims kill homosexuals for being homosexual (fact). Yet, liberals support both the Homosexual agenda in America as well as Muslim Sharia Law. What gives?


I am completely against Sharia law, and see it as an extremely conservative way of thinking. I am also not a fan of Catholism, or most organized religions.


2) Racism – (Hot topic these days…I know…I will tread lightly) It seems liberals keep the term “racists” alive. Why are vocal black democrats given praise by the left (Sharpton, Jackson, Rangel, Shiela Jackson Lee, etc) while vocal black conservatives (Clarence Thomas, Alan West, Herman Cain, etc) called names by the left?


I have no praise for these supposed liberals, and have some respect, very little, for the mentioned conservatives. They are all primarily elitists IMO.


3) Pro Women yet Anti Conservative Women – Liberals say they’re for women’s rights yet they destroyed Sarah Palin and her family in 2008. Liberals love Hillary but what did they have to say about Condoleezza?? Have liberals ever denounced all of the chauvinist remarks about Bachman?


I have no problems with conservative women in general, think Palin did herself in, and not a lot of opinion on Bachman. I see Conservative hate for Hillary as way out of line. I am against all the chauvinist comments about any women.


4) Pro Abortion yet Anti-Death Penalty – Need I say more on this issue?


My only problem with the death penalty is my mistrust of the judicial system. Too many innocents are convicted for such an irreversible punishment. Those who are truly guilty deserve what they get.

Abortion is terrible, but the back alley abortion is worse. I think the health of the fully grown woman should be given consideration over the life of a fetus that might not ever come to term. Women that use abortion as a means of birth control are making very foolish choices. The bigger problem is the state dictating what women can do with their bodies. Natural failed pregnancies occur often in the first trimester, so I don't see it as murder.

As for the un-numbered question.


Also, why do liberals continue to promote social programs that enslave blacks at poverty level? Left policies have NEVER led to black prosperity (Chicago, Detroit, ALL of California, etc are good examples) yet they get the majority of the black vote. What does the left offer that should inspire black Americans and keep their vote? I think the tide is turning, by the way. This video is a good illustration of what I’ve said.


It was under Nixon that the social programs that created the ghetto slums were created, so stop blaming Liberals for the actions of Conservative admins. Responsible social programs were intentionally used to create serious social problems, to give the Conservatives a straw-man issue to attack. I believe in limited welfare, because it makes good sense to help someone who is truly down on their luck.

My biggest problem with conservatives these days is their foolish belief in the free market which is nothing more than re marketed communism IMO. A backdoor to handing all power over to the elites.



+2 more 
posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 10:27 PM
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Ran out of room in the above reply, so I'll finish here:

Regarding the Death Penalty;

Can you live with yourself, knowing you sent an innocent man to the gallows? With new DNA testing we are seeing more innocent men freed from prison, some after DECADES of incarceration. We also know that police forces have acted in a corrupt fashion, hanging charges and planting evidence on an innocent man just to say they solved a case. Prosecutor misconduct is another factor. So when their can never be 100%, beyond-a-shade-of-doubt certainty that a man is guilty, can we send them to their death?

I support capital punishment, but as long as we can never be 100% certain, than as a nation we should reconsider it.

 


To the OP, I noticed, based on the questions you asked, that you define "conservative" and "liberal" along MORAL and RELIGIOUS grounds - and NOT fiscal or constitutional rights grounds.

I define a liberal as one who advances the rights of people, and does not seek to impose limits on them based on some morality code defined by ancient religious texts or how stuffy old men feel. I support conservative fiscal policies with liberal civil and human rights policies and recognize that we as a nation must do what we can to help the impoverished. We must protect ALL our citizens from discrimination and exploitation - that includes supporting the civil rights act, women's issues, and even equality for homosexuals.

The Republican party has not been a party of fiscal conservatism. They gave that up 30 years ago. They have become the party of Gut and Spend. They want to cut spending for the poor and needy, while handing out massive tax breaks and subsidies to the wealthiest. It's wealth extraction (Google it), it has replaced "wealth creation" as our economic engine, and is causing massive harm to the countries economy. It is unsustainable, and will only end when everyone in America is living hand-to-mouth on assistance programs, because what few jobs there will be wont pay enough to live on.



posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 10:30 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

I was a liberal for a very long time. I'm now more aligned with Libertarianism. I will approach this from that perspective. And I'll see if my old liberal ideology holds up to these questions.


1) Homosexuality and Muslims - Devote Muslims kill homosexuals for being homosexual (fact). Yet, liberals support both the Homosexual agenda in America as well as Muslim Sharia Law. What gives?


Devout Christians kill homosexuals for being homosexuals. These two issues aren't really even linked. Because I'm for people practicing their religion (regardless of my own personal beliefs) does not mean that I am also for killing the gays.

I don't like religion being shoved down my throat, but I also would never attempt to prevent somebody from living the way they wanted. As long as they weren't infringing on the rights of others.



2) Racism – (Hot topic these days…I know…I will tread lightly) It seems liberals keep the term “racists” alive. Why are vocal black democrats given praise by the left (Sharpton, Jackson, Rangel, Shiela Jackson Lee, etc) while vocal black conservatives (Clarence Thomas, Alan West, Herman Cain, etc) called names by the left?


Personally, I think that the media on both sides, left & right are completely corrupt, work together to continue their fight (see Coke Vs Pepsi) for ratings and the minds of Americans.

Remember that not only other nations are lead by extremists, while the moderate majority sits silently watching, being pandered to and really in the end of it all some of the most enslaved people on the planet.

North America is also a place where this occurs. I agree that not participating in racism and encouraging it by inciting racial hatred like they've done is wrong. And I would have said the same thing whether or not it was a left pundit or a right one.



Also, why do liberals continue to promote social programs that enslave blacks at poverty level? Left policies have NEVER led to black prosperity (Chicago, Detroit, ALL of California, etc are good examples) yet they get the majority of the black vote. What does the left offer that should inspire black Americans and keep their vote? I think the tide is turning, by the way. This video is a good illustration of what I’ve said.


Yup, blacks are disproportionately more poor than whites, have fewer opportunities and the list goes on. But do you really think that it was the failure of one particular side of a political spectrum that created this problem?

Or the failure of a nation to support itself? Successful social programs exist, and do not cause the huge problems we see today, if they are properly managed, privately run ( not funded) and held accountable for their activities and balance sheets.

I don't know why blacks vote either way honestly. If they are part of the left vs right game then it's just party politics.



3) Pro Women yet Anti Conservative Women – Liberals say they’re for women’s rights yet they destroyed Sarah Palin and her family in 2008. Liberals love Hillary but what did they have to say about Condoleezza?? Have liberals ever denounced all of the chauvinist remarks about Bachman?


Do you expect the entire liberal movement to apologize for criticizing the merits of Sarah Palin or Michelle Bachman?

That's kind of much isn't it? Are we really going to have them all represented by the pundits and comedians that used them to get a laugh?

Honestly though, you have to admit that Sarah put her foot in her mouth and said some pretty non nonsensical things. Like all the time, for months.

And Michelle thought she had to come out publicly as being not a witch. I don't see how Conservatives don't see the humor in that.



4) Pro Abortion yet Anti-Death Penalty – Need I say more on this issue?



I'm personal against abortion. However I do not have the right to force that belief on to another. Religious beliefs or not. Every person has a right to make their own decisions about something that personal.

Let them be judged in the afterlife if that's what you believe. Back to prisoners. I don't really think Capital punishment is in any way necessary in proper 21st century society. We should not imprison non violent offenders.

Perfectly capable, good citizens who go to jail and cost society thousands of dollars each are kept out of the workforce and drain the tax coffers. So imo the whole thing needs to be redone.

I don't think your questions will properly gauge the ideas and mentality of liberals, or any ideology. They do not explore the underlying and real issue behind why these problems exist.

Therefore, nu-intentionally, it only serves to compound the problem of us being too busy trying to kill ourselves than trying to free ourselves.

~Tenth

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by seabag


1) Homosexuality and Muslims - Devote Muslims kill homosexuals for being homosexual (fact). Yet, liberals support both the Homosexual agenda in America as well as Muslim Sharia Law. What gives?

2) Racism – (Hot topic these days…I know…I will tread lightly) It seems liberals keep the term “racists” alive. Why are vocal black democrats given praise by the left (Sharpton, Jackson, Rangel, Shiela Jackson Lee, etc) while vocal black conservatives (Clarence Thomas, Alan West, Herman Cain, etc) called names by the left?

Also, why do liberals continue to promote social programs that enslave blacks at poverty level? Left policies have NEVER led to black prosperity (Chicago, Detroit, ALL of California, etc are good examples) yet they get the majority of the black vote. What does the left offer that should inspire black Americans and keep their vote? I think the tide is turning, by the way. This video is a good illustration of what I’ve said.



3) Pro Women yet Anti Conservative Women – Liberals say they’re for women’s rights yet they destroyed Sarah Palin and her family in 2008. Liberals love Hillary but what did they have to say about Condoleezza?? Have liberals ever denounced all of the chauvinist remarks about Bachman?

LAST BUT NOT LEAST…

4) Pro Abortion yet Anti-Death Penalty – Need I say more on this issue?


I’m really not looking for a fight and I truly want to understand what my fellow Americans of the liberal persuasion are thinking, particularly on these issues. I have other questions but this is good enough to get the ball rolling. I will keep my responses civil and on topic and I ask that you do the same.

What say you?


What say me?, Hmmm, well first of all I would actually classify my self as a left leaning libertarian. First of all, I think a lot of your research has been done at Fox News, they spout some serious off the wall crap, yes I watch them too, just to know what is coming at me. But let us get to your questions.

1. Very odd connection you have made, Sharia Law and Homosexuality. Sharia law applies to all kinds of things, but you chose to link it to this one. First of all Sharia law has no place in this country, but neither does Christian or Jewish law (Stoning adulterers spark a memory) In all three cases, old testament laws from Exodus and Deuturonomy are being used, and Sharia follows these fairly closely. In the 2012 Presidential cycle, people like Santorum and Bachman scare the hell out of me, they want an American theocracy. As far as homosexuality, unless one of the participants is underaged or does not consent, this is not an issue with me. I do not want politicians in my bedroom, and what scares me even further, is that I have seen first hand, people claiming to be good Christians and swingers, kind of scary.

2. This is a big topic these days, none of the so called liberal democrats you listed do a thing for me, what I find interesting is that, the conservatives are listed as african american conservatives. Of the three you listed, West is an idiot, forced out of the military, Thomas and Cain, both womanizers, who have enjoyed their power. If you honestly believe there is no racism or discrimination in this country, I would bet a great deal of money that you have no close dark complected friends (not many of our dark complected brothers are from africa, they were born here)

3. Bachman and Palin are idiots, listen to them talk for 30 seconds, neither has any idea what they are talking about. Condoleeza Rice, an intelligent lady, I would honestly love to see her and Hillary debate, it might open a few minds in how close the middle is. Colin Powell and Condoleeza on a ticket has my vote. Abortion is a personal decision, not one the government should be involved in.

4. You make the same mistake as many conservatives, pro-choice does not equal pro-abortion. The choice needs to be there, and I even agree with some limits on it (Late term abortion, partial birth abortion), however on the death penalty side, I have no problem with someone being proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt being executed for specific crimes. Cold blooded murder, caught dead to right, marched behind the courthouse, and a bullet being put in their head. I don't want to pay for someone to sit on death row for 30 years.



posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 10:40 PM
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I would like to see public executions come back into the picture. If these people are going to be put to death, why not make it public? I guarantee most people who would witness such an event would think twice before they decided to commit a serious crime. I call it “preventive medicine”? With the crime rate sky rocketing, and our prison systems over populated, don't you think this would be a good alternative?

I know this subject came up some years back, but most liberals saw this as unjust and inhuman…



posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 10:43 PM
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reply to post by seabag
 


I'll answer your questions, but I can only speak for myself, not the entire population of liberals.



1) I don't support Sharia law at all. Actually, I have a problem with most organized religions and Islam is no different.

2) I neither praise nor insult any of these people you listed. Race doesn't mean anything to me, and I'm tired of people making an issue out of it. I also believe that things like affirmative action should be abolished. People should get jobs, scholarships, etc because of their suitability and merits as a human being, not because of race or sex or any other meaningless thing.

Also, why do liberals continue to promote social programs that enslave blacks at poverty level?
I'm not sure what you mean by this. What social programs are in place specifically to enslave black people?
What does the left offer that should inspire black Americans and keep their vote? See above, race doesn't mean anything to me.

3) I'm not pro-woman, I'm egalitarian. Not all women are alike, not all men are alike. It's stupid to make generalizations. For what it's worth, I don't like any of the women you mentioned.

4) I'm pro-choice, not pro-abortion. There is a difference, you know. I don't go around encouraging women to get knocked up so they can go have abortions. I believe it's every woman's right to decide whether she gets one or not though.
I'm anti-death penalty for many reasons...It's more expensive than a life sentence, it's not an effective deterrent to crime, if it's later discovered the person is innocent you can't bring them back to life, and last but not least, it's simply revenge, not justice.

Hope I answered the questions to your liking.



posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 10:47 PM
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Originally posted by Propulsion
I would like to see public executions come back into the picture. If these people are going to be put to death, why not make it public? I guarantee most people who would witness such an event would think twice before they decided to commit a serious crime. I call it “preventive medicine”? With the crime rate sky rocketing, and our prison systems over populated, don't you think this would be a good alternative?

I know this subject came up some years back, but most liberals saw this as unjust and inhuman…



FYI

The Earth already did Rome, thousands of years ago...

The deadline for those was sometime in the 1600's



posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 10:49 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 10:51 PM
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reply to post by Blackmarketeer
 



There is no such thing as a "homosexual agenda" - that's a narrow bigoted viewpoint of fundamentalists.


REALLY? Everyone has an agenda and gays are no different. Liberals promote gay marriage, educating children about homosexuality in public schools (as if that’s education), forcing public schools to specifically mention the sexual orientation of Americans who have contributed to society (as if their contribution must be solidified by their homosexuality), etc. Don’t tell me there’s no gay agenda.



If a Muslim wants to be governed under Sharia law, that's their business. It's their nation(s), they can choose their laws. If Muslim women reject it, they'll have to lead their own revolution against it, just as American women (along with European women) fought for suffrage, that sort of revolution has to come from within, you CAN'T impose democracy or suffrage on another people. All a neocon-led 10-year war in the ME has shown us iswe can't impose our morals and system of governance on another people.


Many liberals support Muslims wholeheartedly and Muslims subscribe to Sharia! You don’t hear conservative touting that garbage. Ever heard of the constitution? Sharia is not for the US of A because we have a legal system! Thanks!


Racism was a powerful presence in the new world, it took American slavery to make the African man a "black man", only worthy of being treated like a farm animal. It also turned the Europeans who settled America into the "white man". Maybe you can familiarize yourself with the specter of slavery in the deep south, and how it persisted even after the Civil War as Jim Crow laws right up to the 1960's civil rights movement.


Maybe you can familiarize yourself with the fact that conservatives and most blacks got over it after so many years. The only group still talking about racism is liberals; stop stoking the flames and keeping that part of American history in the forefront because it’s not. There haven’t been Americans walking this planet who were actually 'enslaved' in how long??



The reason why Chicago, Detroit get the "black vote", is this is where large segments of the black population moved in the aftermath of slavery, when landowners in the south could no longer keep blacks as slaves, and couldn't sucker all of them into continuing bondage as share-croppers, not being land-owners and with little industry to keep them employed, they moved north to the factories. The real reason those states declined is the decades-in-the-making outsourcing of all our industries and jobs to cheaper labor in China, Mexico, India, etc. - in other words, globalization. Unfair trade policies led to the decline of industrial states in the Midwest, i.e., the "rust belt".

I shouldn't have to point out that racism didn't end with the freeing of the slaves, not in the south and not in the north.


The reason racism hasn’t ended in those places and the reason many blacks are still struggling in those areas is because the liberal governments in those areas have continued to keep minorities believing that they are victims. Everywhere in this country where liberals have been in control the percentage of ‘victims’ is much higher. Imagine that??



It all comes down to the policies. The GOP has been waging a war on women's reproductive rights, and even now Gov. Scott Walker in Wisconsin has repealed the "equal pay" act, designed to prevent discrimination against women based on pay. As far as I'm concerned, Palin was attacked for her position (and her ineptitude), not because she was a woman. I happen to like Condoleeza, although not keen on her coziness with neocons, I'd like to see her run under her own ideas, but women like her seem too intimidated to go against the GOP good 'ol boy policies.


It’s not about policies!! Come on!! Liberals rush to the defense of EVERY woman who has been wronged UNLESS they are conservative. The love for women STOPS COLD when the woman espouses conservative values. We’ve all seen it time and again.




Do we treat every mass of cells, because that's what a zygote is, a mass of cells, as a living, breathing, fully-developed human? I let science dictate this policy, prior to a certain point of development in the womb, a fetus simply has no developed brain.


Life begins at conception…scientifically. Regardless, liberals support partial birth abortion. At that stage there is absolutely NO QUESTION there is a viable life present. Justify that while explaining how killing a man that murdered another person should be sparred because its ‘cruel.’



posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 10:53 PM
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Originally posted by newsoul
reply to
 


I didn't know you existed here...I am so glad to see you


I hope you won't be too disappointed when no one shows up with a logical answer to your very thought provoking questions.

This post is especially intriguing when compared to the post about conservatives. That post actually has rational dialogue being provided by actual conservatives....it's astonishing.



Asking questions to one group
has rational dialogue, and the other side
being asked should participate and play ball because only they could ask
logical thought provoking questions? This is not thought provoking
because it is now asking that group to do the same, that these questions are illogical
because it is asking the other group questions they deem not logical enough??
From a totally neutral POV the post i am replying to reads like
the side they chose to be on likes to dish it out, but can't take it being dished.
Why not answer the questions and help the OP understand,
instead of criticizing the OP for asking questions? That is the only illogical
response yet..
edit on 7-4-2012 by popsmayhem because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 10:55 PM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


I really liked this response, it was very well thought out and conveyed (basically my beliefs) Kudo's my friend.



posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 10:57 PM
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reply to post by Propulsion
 


I'd like to know if you are for public access to view executions are you also for public access to view porn? I would much rather live in a society where people get their kicks watching people having sex and enjoying themselves that watching someone die. What kind of sick audience would that draw and what kind of effect would it have on us as a society? Do you really think potential murders would watch it? Really? Be serious please. Like having your picture posted in the little paper showing local arrests at the check out deters anyone. We all know every body that buys it knows some one who is in it or is looking to see if they know any of the people in it. Sad and thats what your show would become. Sick sad rubbernecking that would drag people down. Like we need that.



posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 11:03 PM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 11:04 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 11:21 PM
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Dear seabag,

I can't offer an "Authentic Liberal" view, but I'd like to offer a couple of suggestions.

Perhaps Conservatives see Liberals as uninformed, not knowledgeable about some facts and principles, so they set out to teach, reason, and discuss. Liberals may see Conservatives as evil, ("war on women," racist, denial of rights) and so the Conservatives must be destroyed, defeated, not allwed to spread their "poison" through any communications channel.

Further, perhaps Liberals have an image of "good" so powerful that it justifies any tactic which will help their "good" to triumph. If supporting women helps, they will do that. If attacking Conservative women helps, they will do that. It's very similar to a religion attacking heresy.

It's not a matter of principle, it's a matter of "What do we have to do to win?" For example, the Defense of Marriage Act was passed by a larger majority than "Obamacare," but the Administration has no difficulty with asking the courts to rule it unconstitutional. But Obamacare? The President says they should give great deference to Congress' laws. There's no principle involved, it's just a matter of "What will advance our cause?"

Liberals have no need to reconcile their positions, as you have asked, because they are not contradictory in their minds. Each of those positions are simply tools to be used when the situation calls for it.

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 11:28 PM
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reply to post by charles1952
 



Perhaps Conservatives see Liberals as uninformed, not knowledgeable about some facts and principles, so they set out to teach, reason, and discuss.


Most Liberals see Conservatives as badly informed, and their sources extremely ill-informed. It is as if they don't care about the truth.

For example Conservatives blame Obama for the problems created by the GW admin., and huge deficits inherited from the GW admin.



posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 11:38 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by charles1952
 



Perhaps Conservatives see Liberals as uninformed, not knowledgeable about some facts and principles, so they set out to teach, reason, and discuss.


Most Liberals see Conservatives as badly informed, and their sources extremely ill-informed. It is as if they don't care about the truth.

For example Conservatives blame Obama for the problems created by the GW admin., and huge deficits inherited from the GW admin.



True, when Obama took over the debt was only 10. something trillion in 8 years and now its up over 15 trillion.
Obama made half that with half the time, he sure is trying to keep up.

Now we both know it wasn't 1 man that did either so I am not sure why you are trying to go there.



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 12:01 AM
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The reason you aren't going to see a lot of liberals posting here, is because they are hiding under the shadows of the libertarians. Those people are liberals who like the constitution. Remember you are on a conspiracy forum. So, 90% of the people on here do not, fit in with the general public. They don't like the way things are done normally. However, the libertarians love bashing their fellow conservatives for being too far right.... There are plenty of them on here, and there are plenty of liberals on here as well. Conservatives generally do not go posting their beliefs and messages all over the internet either. They actually get together, talk about them, and do something about it like creating a business, or changing a policy. This is practical republican thinking and it's why we are the middle class working class and the upper class.

Now, for the pro choice thing. I am more left on this issue. Because I believe that a child shouldn't have to suffer thanks to the consequences of his birth. I don't know if death is suffering. Doesn't Jesus say something about that? Let's say he was conceived at a wild party and his mother was rapped. She is poor and can barely afford to fund her drug addiction. Would you want the child to grow up in that household? If one exists. Belong to those poor neighborhoods where rapes occur daily just so the child can grow up and continue the exact same cycle? sure some escape "the hood" but most stay there. And republicans are not helping by trying to force religious beliefs and "your going to hell if you kill your child" rhetoric either. There is no easy answer for pro-abortion or pro-life but I believe that it should be up to the individual woman what she should do with the child.

I am for the death penalty so can't help you there. I think it might have something to do with Europe and why they don't have it...But they don't have guns as well.



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 12:04 AM
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I consider myself very liberal on social issues, so here goes...


Originally posted by seabag1) Homosexuality and Muslims - Devote Muslims kill homosexuals for being homosexual (fact). Yet, liberals support both the Homosexual agenda in America as well as Muslim Sharia Law. What gives?


If the "homosexual agenda" means equal rights for all, then I am for it. If you are not, you are a bigot. What liberal supports Sharia Law? I certainly don't. I think you should lay off the Rush/Fox shows. Conservative windbags make their money by scaring the bejesus out of people, and this supporting Islam thing is one of their favorite lies. Liberals, do NOT support theocratic government, which is why they get so upset about people like Rick Santorum.


Originally posted by seabag2) Racism – (Hot topic these days…I know…I will tread lightly) It seems liberals keep the term “racists” alive. Why are vocal black democrats given praise by the left (Sharpton, Jackson, Rangel, Shiela Jackson Lee, etc) while vocal black conservatives (Clarence Thomas, Alan West, Herman Cain, etc) called names by the left?


Do you really think racism does not exist in America? I think that term is being kept alive quite effectively by those who practice it. I do not, however, support the four black democrats you mention. I think they are all crooks. But sometimes they do manage to fight for what is right.


Originally posted by seabagAlso, why do liberals continue to promote social programs that enslave blacks at poverty level? Left policies have NEVER led to black prosperity (Chicago, Detroit, ALL of California, etc are good examples) yet they get the majority of the black vote. What does the left offer that should inspire black Americans and keep their vote?


Blacks have way more problems to contend with than our system of government assistance. And many of them HAVE become prosperous. And many who have remained mired in poverty are NOT black. Really this question betrays your bigotry.


Originally posted by seabag3) Pro Women yet Anti Conservative Women – Liberals say they’re for women’s rights yet they destroyed Sarah Palin and her family in 2008. Liberals love Hillary but what did they have to say about Condoleezza?? Have liberals ever denounced all of the chauvinist remarks about Bachman?


I think the way Palin and Bachman were treated was despicable. They were horrible candidates, but they should not have been attacked personally on the basis of their gender.

And regarding the abortion question, how can you be pro life and support the death penalty. I am pro freedom, as in personal freedom from the government, as in freedom for women to choose and freedom from the threat of death from the government.
edit on 8-4-2012 by Grumble because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 12:05 AM
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reply to post by calnorak
 



True, when Obama took over the debt was only 10. something trillion in 8 years and now its up over 15 trillion.
Obama made half that with half the time, he sure is trying to keep up.

Now we both know it wasn't 1 man that did either so I am not sure why you are trying to go there.


Bush saddled Obama with HUGE deficits, a massive reversal in the economy, and TWO trillion-dollar never-ending wars. Not to mention the bankrupt GOP policies of Bush, it will take not only Obama but the next president, and the next president after that, to get this country back on track. That's how disastrous Bush was as a president. He created problems that will take this country a decade or more to crawl out of.





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