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Did MI6 'dry clean' this flat to cover up the spy in a bag murder? Not one fingerprint and five...

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posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 01:04 AM
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Originally posted by Anon77
reply to post by Bedlam
 

When you say 'spooky dives' if your able to can you give a description of one? (Understand entirely if not possible).


Most of the dives were the sort of stuff you'd pay to do. Daytime, clear weather, off an unremarkable boat with driver provided, maybe 150' on 'normal' dive gear, the sort of thing you can do fast enough to bounce dive, more or less, maybe three minutes at the bottom and then hang off the dive rope at 20' for ten with a stop tank. Then it was fishing and Miller time on the way back, free for the day.

The bad part was you had to go when, and where, and how specified. If it was storming, you went. Dark, you went, too far for the dive boat, you went another way. Deep enough you needed trimix and several stops on the way up, you went.

I think the most alarming one was a night dive that looked ok when we went down (not that far - maybe 100'), we came back to the rope and it was gone. Went to the top and it was 30' swells and a thunderstorm from hell and the boat was gone. Woot! We got left until the next day riding the free roller coaster.



God Damn! They poly test you as well!? That's mad!, I'm guessing the public drinking restriction is just to stop you getting drunk in public and saying something you shouldn't?


Yeah, pretty much. There is, however, Inderal, the pre-poly treatment of choice for thousands of people.




Do you think they really would kill you for mentioning stuff you shouldn't? Ever known or heard of anyone 'removed' for talking?


When you're read onto an SCI project, you are in general sat down and the security guy reads you verbatim several laws you're liable for. One is 18 USC 794, which you only get for SCI projects. 794 lets them execute you without a jury trial, although as far as I know it's never been used. I did know a guy from the State department and another from DIA that got fired and lost their clearance in the 2004 debacle wherein some of us got caught discussing black projects on dead threads on another forum than ATS.



You'll need to excuse my ignorance here but what does 'FORN' mean?


FOReign National. Lady Bedlam is from the Lake District area. It makes my sponsor edgy but tough beans. Fortunately, Lady Bedlam's father has their Seal of Approval. I tried to become a dual citizen a few years back when we were in Australia a lot, you only need a year of residency. They let me know that was a poor choice.



Do you think your previous employers are monitoring what your writing to me on ATS?


Not likely.



Are people like yourself ever really 'off the books' so to speak or could they come back to you even now and ask for 'a job'?


God forbid. There was something going around about five years ago about 'volunteering' to teach the new guys, 'pass on your knowledge to the next generation' and what not, dressed it up nice came to the house and tried to sell it. Only you had to re-up in the Guard, and that wasn't happening.




posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 04:53 AM
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I doubt they killed him and then put him in his apartment in a sports bag. Not only is that damaging to the long-term mental stability of the agent or agents , it is simply complicated.

It is easier to make him disappear or look like he was part of a random killing or mugging incident on the side of a road or at a park , somewhere near where he frequents.

Chopping him up or breaking his bones to stuff him into a sports bag and then getting him to his apartment with no eye witnesses is much more difficult.



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 08:39 AM
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Originally posted by Anon77Are people like yourself ever really 'off the books' so to speak or could they come back to you even now and ask for 'a job'?


Edit to add: I had actually given some thought to writing a book like that. Your records are around forever in a secure records facility in downtown Tampa.

What if you had a guy in charge with access to sealed military records that was blackmailing or "phishing" former service SF or CAG guys into doing jobs for him on the side? What if they thought it was legit? "We need you to muster up one last hooah for the team" sort of thing? If it looked right, and sounded legit, in a compartmentalized world where you no longer had connections how would you know?

The right guy at MacDill could drum up a tidy geezer army on the sly, especially if he could divert resources out of SOCOM non-line-item project funds and assign unquestioned arms/transport whatnot through SOCOM's essentially limitless TO&E.

And the odd part is, you'd get volunteers, especially if you worked with guys one to five years past ETS. That's the period they tend to go to Blackwater, when they get tired of civilian jobs and want that adrenaline fix again, and they're still fresh enough to just need a brushup.



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 11:39 AM
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reply to post by Bedlam
 


Bloody hell! They just disappeared with the boat and left you in that storm!? How nice to know your employers value you...

Inderal! I'd have thought some people would have trouble getting away with that? Did they not do drug tests looking for beta blockers (like inderal) or other anti anxiety pills? I have to admit that just the thought of being poly tested would make me nervous even though I don't really have anything to hide.

Does 18 USC 794 apply to the releases that Bradley Manning made to wikileaks? Do you think he'll ultimately be executed?

Ahh of course FOReign National. Makes sense. Thanks for that. Odd that it would make them nervous, I mean Australia is a strong US ally. The US has a lot of joint assets in Australia (Woomera test range, Pine Gap, etc).

You should write a book! I'd buy it definitely.
That's a good point though, how the hell would you ever know it was a genuine job? Very difficult to discern unless you had someone inside high up with the knowledge to go ask if it's legit. You ever fancied working for Blackwater yourself? What do you make of some of the scandals attached to Blackwater in recent years?



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 05:42 PM
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Originally posted by Anon77
reply to post by Bedlam
 


Bloody hell! They just disappeared with the boat and left you in that storm!? How nice to know your employers value you...


The boat couldn't hang. Once the weather got too rough they had to ditch. It was pretty exciting for a while, then we did the usual stuff trying to settle in for the ride. Not having any water was the biggest irritant of the night, and they found us early next day, or we'd have had some bad sunburn.




Inderal! I'd have thought some people would have trouble getting away with that? Did they not do drug tests looking for beta blockers (like inderal) or other anti anxiety pills? I have to admit that just the thought of being poly tested would make me nervous even though I don't really have anything to hide.


I don't know if they have a test for it, but so far so good.



Does 18 USC 794 apply to the releases that Bradley Manning made to wikileaks? Do you think he'll ultimately be executed?


I'm not sure if he was SCI, and while I guess it COULD apply if he outs an agent that ends up dead, they've never used it. Whoever was in charge of SCIF security should be executed. So many screwups they allowed, no telling what else is compromised. Basic SCIF routine was not followed. Not even close.



Ahh of course FOReign National. Makes sense. Thanks for that. Odd that it would make them nervous, I mean Australia is a strong US ally. The US has a lot of joint assets in Australia (Woomera test range, Pine Gap, etc).


It was mentioned to me that it would be taken as "divided loyalty". I'm not big on Alice Springs but Australia is very nice along the coasts and I could definitely live there.



You ever fancied working for Blackwater yourself? What do you make of some of the scandals attached to Blackwater in recent years?


Not so much. I had enough of sleeping on poncho liners when I got out in '90. Blackwater isn't the worst of the bunch, just the most covered. There's several Big Corporations who have divisions doing monumentally shady stuff over there.



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 05:55 PM
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reply to post by Bedlam
 


Just wanted to say thank-you very much for your honest and extremely interesting replies to all my questions. Talking to an ex spook has been great. You should write that book, send me a u2u if you ever do. If I could give you more than one star or flag I would my friend. Take it easy.



posted on Apr, 11 2012 @ 08:55 PM
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reply to post by Anon77
 


some ppl place anyone associated with spooks in a basket with a drawn target, this is concept for reasons to some my seem obvious and to some seem fishy, the fact is, we are all individuals and as individuals we all have a choice to serve man kind in various ways.



posted on Apr, 21 2012 @ 08:43 PM
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I had to do a bit of a search because I kinda expected this to come back to the top again today.

It seems that Gareth Williams reported suspicions to his friends before his death that he was being followed.

The Gov has refused to comment on what he was working on, but I seem to recall - unless I am mistaken - that he was a code-breaker or mathematician?

The thing that gets me about this is that his body was left intentionally to be found. The fact that this came out into the public domain instead of being an "accident" also suggests that MI6 didn't have control over the story.

In my view, someone killed him because he knew something, or was working on something that threatened them, and they left his body in this condition, and released the information, for a reason. This was perhaps a warning to others who might work on the same task, or a warning to MI6 itself.

I do not believe this was any of our agencies in any way. Why would they need to make this public statement? If it were a UK agency in any form why not just keep it all hushed and under the radar? British services are well known for being invisible. They don't flash guns around, they don't all wear black suits and have ear-pieces in. They're understated, normal people, blending in and never making a fuss. It is not in the British way to make a song and dance about something like this.

IMO, this all points to another agency. If his background was in mathematics and he wasn't working at the comms center, he was working on high-level code, higher than your basic listening and decryption.

It's a very sad story, but it's also really intriguing. The kinds of things we often imagine about the services are mostly fiction, so when something like this happens reeking of a spy novel, you know it's big.

Lets also remember that one nation in particular loves to commit very public murders. Litvinenko anyone?



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