First Nuclear attack on USA 17-18 September 1944

Originally posted by dowot
Doing a little web digging, I came upon the following.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Under the heading, "Nazi nuclear waste from Hitler's secret A-bomb programme found in mine" dated July 2011.it goes on to describe that 126,000 barrels of nuclear waste have been uncovered in a disused salt mine.

No idea if 126,000 barrels equates to 1,2,3 or more possible bombs, seems to me like a lot of waste.

I also can not understand the comments made about drilling?

dowot BTW thanks for the kind words, returning to your post and in part addressing the Pravda article too suggesting the Nazis lacked Uranium, the Nazis obtained Uranium from Jacymov and a mine on the Baltic island of Bornholm which was probably sealed before the Allies arrived.



Bornholm nuclear facilities in WW2

...and this article scroll down to the right "Soviets Got Nazi Secrets"

Professor Paul Rivet about A-bomb factory

French Professor Paul Rivet, arrested in France in 1942 for being anti fascist was sent to Bornholm for forced labouring there. On his return to Paris he told news reporters that the Germans had an Atomic Bomb factory at Bornholm. He also said the Nazis had an atomic bomb from June 1944 but lacked the means to deliver it to targets. I have come across other claims which I can't source yet which say two other things in respect of Rivet's claim

1) that it is rumored to have been underground beneath Hammershus Fortress in NW Bornholm

2) that the function of the factory was to incorporate atomic warheads into radio controlled bombs.

A similar report from the OSS in Zurich from November 1944 also refers to work at the Flottemann factory in Breslau modifying the V-2 rocket and the V-1 flying bomb to accept nerve gas and atomic warheads. By inference it is suggested the modified weapons were then sent to Bornholm for equipping with warheads.

Drilling is because the waste site has been covered over with spoil. Drilling is often used to plot the extent of contaminated waste buried under spoil.

Also the British 21st Army found a lot of nuclear material at Gardermoen airfield Norway in 1945 and took it out to sea in a basin south of Bornholm and dumped it there using a former LST.

Further digging, came across an interesting interchange of words in another book I have been reading (Too much spare time I guess)

"Hitler's rocket soldiers, by Barber & Keur pub. Tattered Flag 2011)

Page 69 a conversation, overheard by a certain Helmuth Frenk who was employed in testing the V2 and was fairly senior. " ....Frank clearly recollected overhearing a most illuminating conversation that took place between von Braun and a visiting dignitary: "Once by accident, I overheard an exchange between von Braun and a visitor, who asked: "Why do you not use an atomic bomb in the V2?" With a sneer, von Braun replied: "Because we do not have one!"

Who the visitor was is not revealed and the date is also not made clear.

Also within the paragraph, it is also suggested that, "....Frenk never heard of any attempt to use phosphorus as was sometimes rumoured. Similarly, the use of biological or chemical weapons, as far as he was aware, was simply not considered."

The history of the V2 is very interesting, with ideas of atmosphere skimming piloted craft able to bomb the US. No wonder there was an explosion of inventions post war.

Re your " Also the British 21st Army found a lot of nuclear material at Gardermoen airfield Norway in 1945 and took it out to sea in a basin south of Bornholm and dumped it there using a former LST." Not sure that does not sum up the UK's lack of foresight then as well as now.

Thoroughly recomend a read of that book, brings to light some of the Axis thinking.

Another reference is from the BBC.

www.bbc.co.uk...

" I remember talk about Hitler's 'secret weapon', but we didn't take much notice. Actually I believe it was the atomic bomb, heaven help us, but I later learned that some of our agents blew up his 'heavy water' in Norway, and held up progress. Occasionally we used to cycle to and from school over the hill. Towards the end of the war stacks of large bombs were stored at the side of the road on top of the hill. We were told that they were gas bombs. This surprised us but didn't actually worry us. I believed at the time that they were already loaded with gas, but now I wonder."

Jennifer de Villiers, I was born in the West Riding of Yorkshire on 7th September 1928 and was just about to turn 11 when the war broke out on 3rd September 1939.

So maybe the threat by Churchill to use gas, if the Germans did not give up the atomic bomb threat, has more credence.

Got a feeling there is more to be discovered.

Originally posted by dowot
Further digging, came across an interesting interchange of words in another book I have been reading (Too much spare time I guess)

"Hitler's rocket soldiers, by Barber & Keur pub. Tattered Flag 2011)

Page 69 a conversation, overheard by a certain Helmuth Frenk who was employed in testing the V2 and was fairly senior. " ....Frank clearly recollected overhearing a most illuminating conversation that took place between von Braun and a visiting dignitary: "Once by accident, I overheard an exchange between von Braun and a visitor, who asked: "Why do you not use an atomic bomb in the V2?" With a sneer, von Braun replied: "Because we do not have one!"

Who the visitor was is not revealed and the date is also not made clear.

Also within the paragraph, it is also suggested that, "....Frenk never heard of any attempt to use phosphorus as was sometimes rumoured. Similarly, the use of biological or chemical weapons, as far as he was aware, was simply not considered."

The history of the V2 is very interesting, with ideas of atmosphere skimming piloted craft able to bomb the US. No wonder there was an explosion of inventions post war.

Re your " Also the British 21st Army found a lot of nuclear material at Gardermoen airfield Norway in 1945 and took it out to sea in a basin south of Bornholm and dumped it there using a former LST." Not sure that does not sum up the UK's lack of foresight then as well as now.

Thoroughly recomend a read of that book, brings to light some of the Axis thinking.

The title sounds familiar. If I am thinking of the same book you are correct that it is an interesting read.

The Flottemann factory in Breslau was modifying standard V-2 and V-1 projectiles for nerve gas and nuclear payloads Source:

“Luftwaffe: the Allied Intelligence Files,”by Chris Staerck, Paul Sinnott, p.85 A special nerve gas version of the V-1 (Fi-103 D-1) designed to attack the U.S. was completed in 1944 at a factory in Breslau. "OSS Report A-44 316, report 5985 of 7 November 1944."



It hardly surprises me that Von Braun was unaware. Heisenberg himself was unaware of the nuclear weapons project being run by the Army Ordnance project under Diebner. As far as I can tell, the SS had their own V-2 test launch centre at Blizna and modified the V-2 to their own requirements in a a parallel project which modified standard V-2 rockets.

The V-1 pictured was intended for launch from U-boats offshore from New York.

did anyone see my post ????
it is on page 2......


thanks

snoopyuk

reply to post by RizeorDie


i generally agree that Hitler refused to use atomic weapons...most likely because of his occult focus. his own 'superman' mindset

it sure does not make sense, but he was diabolical and riddled with disease so logic went out the window
and his thoughts were concentrated on going undercover in S America


not much more than a month ago there was a informative, multi-part series on the History channel which addressed atomic development in Nazi Germany...

Hitler's 'Mandrake' got stolen and he became unglued mentally, thinking the occult was against him so he delayed atomic development as a weapon in war...even though the German scientists were way ahead of the USA


ADD: www.youtube.com...

Well I remember hearing a lot about either a dirty bomb or a small nuke tested near the end of the war by germany near that town up north on quite a few different sources. Apparently they did use Russian POW's as guinea pigs. I think that it was a small nuke that they tested out just to see if it worked because they had probably such a small stockpile of uranium they couldn't make another one. I believe if they would have had more than one that they knew worked that they would have defintely used it on London or in Antwerp unless they wanted to team up with the west against the Russians in which case they would have nuked the eastern front and made a big deal out of it. And I believe no matter what they would have found some sort of system to deploy it.

reply to post by snoopyuk


Yes but you need a day or two to read and digest all the information.

There was also two tunnels, from an old railway line, Berlin/Paris, that was never finished, but was used for the production of rocket machinery. Have to dig out where I saw this.

The hills were alive to the sound of production! Hehe.

Originally posted by Swing80s
Well I remember hearing a lot about either a dirty bomb or a small nuke tested near the end of the war by germany near that town up north on quite a few different sources. Apparently they did use Russian POW's as guinea pigs. I think that it was a small nuke that they tested out just to see if it worked because they had probably such a small stockpile of uranium they couldn't make another one.

The Russian POWs whom you refer to were at Ohrdruf Concentration camp south of Erfurt. IIRC 700-800 were killed outright by a blast and there were two blasts there in March 1945.

In the Nuremberg trials Reichs Armaments Minister Albert Speer was questioned about these tests and whether a nuclear weapon was used. Speer who by then in the war was excluded from the real nuclear project probably honestly denied any knowledge of German nuclear weapons.

The dirty bomb claim appears to come from a new article out of Madrid about Nazi development of Tritium and speculation in the press what possible use it could have. Journalists of the day had no idea but were aware it was a radioactive material which could form a fog. they also knew the Nazis intended to use tritium in their atomic weapons project thus the media speculated that tritium would be dispersed by aircraft flying over London causing a radioactive fog.

I am unsure if this was deliberate misinformation or just genuine ignorance. Had just 2-3 grams of Tritium been added to the Fat Man bomb dropped on Nagasaki it would have doubled the yield.

The Nazis understood the true purpose but in the west it was misinterpreted by newspaper speculation.

...I believe if they would have had more than one that they knew worked that they would have defintely used it on London or in Antwerp unless they wanted to team up with the west against the Russians in which case they would have nuked the eastern front and made a big deal out of it. And I believe no matter what they would have found some sort of system to deploy it.

I am sure I have addressed this previously. The Ju-290 crashed off Owl's Head is almost certainly an attempted attack on New York.

The Germans Had no ability by late 1944 to mount bombing attacks over Europe as they had lost air superiority.

The Japanese claim nukes were used against Russian forces in June 1943 and later in early 1944 in the Crimea. They indicate Stalin threatened retaliation with poisoned gas and Germany lacked rubber for gas masks. There were also Japanese peace feelers trying to create cease fires with the Soviets for Hitler.

Hi all.

Japan trying for German/Russian peace? That's new, where is that bit of info. from?

I uncovered a Russian site,

military.tomsk.ru...

Which on page 2 shows an underwater launch of a rocket, sorry I have no idea what it says about it, but go to page 3 and there is an illustration of an underwater, towed by sub, rocket.

If that was for real, surely that would have been a better way to bomb the US?

I did see an illustration that the bomb from the "Silverbird" would create an explosion likened to the effect of an atom bomb. Looks like they almost had a full scale mock up built, hidden in Lofer (Spelling may be off) which the US uncovered.

When you start digging you find so much.

Keep going Sy, the truth will out someday and it will surprise I am sure.

Originally posted by dowot
Hi all.

Japan trying for German/Russian peace? That's new, where is that bit of info. from?

I uncovered a Russian site,

military.tomsk.ru...

Which on page 2 shows an underwater launch of a rocket, sorry I have no idea what it says about it, but go to page 3 and there is an illustration of an underwater, towed by sub, rocket.

If that was for real, surely that would have been a better way to bomb the US?

I did see an illustration that the bomb from the "Silverbird" would create an explosion likened to the effect of an atom bomb. Looks like they almost had a full scale mock up built, hidden in Lofer (Spelling may be off) which the US uncovered.

When you start digging you find so much.

Keep going Sy, the truth will out someday and it will surprise I am sure.

Yes the missile systems were for real. The Russian web site is really just discussing all the launch sites used for testing various rockets, Peenemunde plus other sites in Poland etc. They were debating whether the rocket launched from beneath the water was a V-2 launched by a towed cannister.

My own view is no, it was a Wurzkorpfer artillery rocket designed for coastal bombardment by U-boats in defence of the trapped German garrison Crimean in early 1944. the Germans had a small fleet of type II -boats in the Black Sea.

The towed V-2 capsule code named Miranda was intended for towing to the sea off New York. One prototype version was built and tested in the Baltic and in trials from Horten Norway. The problems associated however included that U-boats had to get within 200 nautical miles of new York and survive there on the surface for 30 minutes whilst the Lafferenz capsule was turned vertical then the rocket's fuel tanks were filled. Some of the fuel was hypergolic meaning any leaks would cause an instant explosion. The final factor was that hydrogen peroxide needed to drive fuel pumps would deteriorate in the long voyage and be useless by the time the launch point was reached.

For this reason a new slightly larger version of the V-2 called the A8 missile was developed to use nitric acid and diesel fuel. This required building enlarged Lafferenz capsules. The Soviets captured three of these larger capsules under construction at Stettin in the eastern Baltic. The A8 had it ever been used would have had a special guidance system for homing on to a radio beacon. It could I imagine have simply tuned in to a broadcast radio station in New York.

The silverbird or sanger-bredt design was one of three non-aircraft rocket designs in competition to bombard NY. The others were the A9/A10 two stage Amerika Rakete with a winged upper stage designed to glide across the Atlantic from high altitude skipping over the atmosphere.

Lastly was the Trommsdorff D-6000 delta winged ramjet cruise missile. It could have been launched by aircraft at 8000 metres altitude but given the lack of air superiority and aviation fuel by 1945 it was then planned to use it from the same launch track with rocket boost that silverbird was to use.

A launch track was built in northern France near Abbeville in 1943, but this immediately attracted attention from Allied aircraft. It was captured by Patton in 1944. The Nazis then built an underground track from Jonstal Valley near Arnstadt which ran west near Ohrdruf to emerge from inside a mountain. I came across an account by locals of a strange small aircraft seen flying from the side of this mountain at night late in the war. Most inhabitants were forced into communal bomb shelters at night and strange sights were only witnessed by those who disobeyed marshal law curfews.

Originally posted by pikestaff
The Allies never found anything in Germany after the war ended (1939-1945) to suggest that the Germans had built an atomic bomb, there wasn't even a working nuclear pile.

The so called German A bomb was not built in Germany.
I know an easy out but thats how these conspiracy tend to promote themselves.


ED: The six engine bomber has a counterpart in Japan drawing boards perhaps
with help of Germany. How fast does a FOO fly. Germany plans could be
transported to Japan very quickly.

see now if you go to youtube and watch [ a time lapse map of every nuclear explosion since 1945 ] it shows 7 different nation and where they launched it and how many bombs up until 1998.

Hold on to your hats, but there is also strong evidence that the JAPANESE also test detonated an atomic bomb in a remote area of what is now North Korea.

They detonated it after the first bomb dropped on Hiroshima, supposedly just for the scientists to demonstrate that it worked.

When the Americans reached the factory where it was supposedly made, they found the tools and equipment, and the whole lot was dumped into the ocean.

There was also speculation that there was a Japanese plot to send a suicide submarine into San Francisco Bay and detonate a small nuclear warhead.

I guess the Americans wanted to take sole glory for the development of the Atomic Bomb.

Originally posted by dowot
Another reference is from the BBC.

www.bbc.co.uk...

" I remember talk about Hitler's 'secret weapon', but we didn't take much notice. Actually I believe it was the atomic bomb, heaven help us, but I later learned that some of our agents blew up his 'heavy water' in Norway, and held up progress. Occasionally we used to cycle to and from school over the hill. Towards the end of the war stacks of large bombs were stored at the side of the road on top of the hill. We were told that they were gas bombs. This surprised us but didn't actually worry us. I believed at the time that they were already loaded with gas, but now I wonder."

Jennifer de Villiers, I was born in the West Riding of Yorkshire on 7th September 1928 and was just about to turn 11 when the war broke out on 3rd September 1939.

So maybe the threat by Churchill to use gas, if the Germans did not give up the atomic bomb threat, has more credence.

Got a feeling there is more to be discovered.

The raid on the heavy water facility in Norway is one of the most daring Commando raids of World War II, done with the help of the Norwegian Resistance.

In conjunction with the allied attack on Peenemunde Army Research Center, these were two of the biggest setbacks of the late war for Nazi Germany.

I never bought the idea that Germany had the bomb. Granted they were researching it but to actually start production they needed a giant infrastructure. When you research the manhattan project the shear size of the Program is astounding. I think there would have been obvious traces left after the war too large to cover up, considering that the us literally had to build large towns just to house the people working on the project.

reply to post by babybunnies


so is that the retaliation to the our bombs?

Operation epsilon in which all of the top german atomic scientists we imprisoned in a bugged British Mi6 safe house came to the conclusion that the Germans were a long way off having a useable aa bomb

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by dashdespatch
Operation epsilon in which all of the top german atomic scientists we imprisoned in a bugged British Mi6 safe house came to the conclusion that the Germans were a long way off having a useable aa bomb

en.wikipedia.org...

Now who would want us to think that.
The US and UK our big saviors.
I think the US and UK (together with Nazi intel who formed the CIA) intel services made this
up or the bomb was made in Norway and not under German atomic scientist supervision.
The Hitler dead burnt up is another intel services propaganda.
There was way more than atomic secrets and wartime maneuvers we can only guess about.

My guess is the Atomic Bomb and Hitler stories are both lies to protect the innocent ( we
the people ) from knowing the power we just inherited into the hands of the oil and technology
powers.

Anyone who thinks otherwise just plays out the official story as the writers on Wiki do.
Even 'truth' forums are invaded by those who can't see one conspiracy as that might
connect them all, they are very well trained in mind control.

Originally posted by drock905
I never bought the idea that Germany had the bomb. Granted they were researching it but to actually start production they needed a giant infrastructure. When you research the manhattan project the shear size of the Program is astounding. I think there would have been obvious traces left after the war too large to cover up, considering that the us literally had to build large towns just to house the people working on the project.

Thats right, Germany never had the bomb as the Nazis had it built elsewhere and could
not use it as the designs were airborne and Nazi Germany had no delivery system.
If you ask me the uber controllers of Mr H fixed it that way when the large bombers were
cancelled.

But somehow Hitler said a Zeppelin was to be built.
Did you hear about that.
There is controversy about that ship still running now as a Tesla ship.