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Originally posted by Koffee
Originally posted by sy.gunson
Originally posted by Koffee
If the Nazis had the atomic bomb, they would of used them to destroy the rampaging Soviet armies that was pushing them out of Eastern Europe, or you know drop it on Stalin or hell London then some vain attempt to hit the US in half cocked manner that this conspiracy theory suggests.
Amazingly they did use nuclear weapons against Soviet forces...
Sorry, but your evidence in my post is some uncited Tokyo guy, reporting on rumors (feel free to give me the source). Nor does any else links seem to have something other then some guy's claim on Coast to Coast. Or in other words if you want to convince me of your position, please throw some sources my way.
Then you have the problem to account for the fact that Nazi Germany lost the war while supposedly having these superweapons. The question then remains, why didn't they use it on Moscow or Saint Petersburg or actually you know have it change the course of history instead of being wasted away?
Originally posted by RizeorDie
The germans were ahead of their time in many fields, I would not be surprised if they managed to drop bombs on the US in late 1944.
But I highly doubt that the Germans had nukes, not that they couldnt build them, but they simply chose not to as it went against hitlers policy of lebensraum in the east (you cant reuse wasted land)
The Germans did use poison gas on the Eastern front, had they had nukes they would also have used them as last resort.
They did begin a nuclear program but it was too little too late.
If the germans had nukes by September 1944, they would have FIRST, nuked the allied troops in Normandy, In Italy, on the Eastern Front, most importantly they would have nuked the living hell out of London until the allies sued for peace.
It would have been much more accurate and sufficient to just nuke the nearby UK than go the whole way and try and get US with valuable nuke bomb and so little time.
Originally posted by 3n19m470
Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
reply to post by sy.gunson
Ju 290 is 4 engine aircraft with BMW engines. To tell you the truth, after your post i searched few sites and Germans did have several types of experimental 6 engine aircrafts that in theory could have reached US.
From what i found:
Ju 390 had 6 engines (but also BMW)
And there was a flying boat with 6 engines and pretty long range, i forgot its name. Its engines were Junkers ones.
However the main point is - US military would not leave new model bomber wreck lying around right next to US shore, while knowing its exact location.
As for nuke aboard - this is even more improbable. Even disragarding total lack of evidence of German nuke, in 1944 Germans took serious beating in the East. Nuking Soviet forces made so much more sense.
Ah... The man who knows what "makes sense" to Adolf Hitler and Co... The arrogance of some of you never ceases to astound me. What if... Now bear with me... Just what if Hitler had an intelligence report with evidence that the US was the nation closest to perfecting the atomic bomb, ie, The Manhattan Project (I know this is quite a gamble on my part, but maybe you've heard of it...). Then wouldn't the number one priority be to destroy the place where the atomic bomb was being perfected?
That's just one example. I could think of several other. But if you can't then I truly feel sorry for you, and I surely will not waste my time going through each possibility here.
@ you knowing what makes sense to the Nazis...
Sometimes at moments like this I am ready to accept that we are truly doomed as a society... Then I remember that the continuation of our civilization often depends on the truth being hidden from those as dense as yourself, and then I'm quite thankful that it so often is.edit on 8-4-2012 by 3n19m470 because: I have a dry sense of humor. In case you can't tell, I'm just giving you a hard time when I jab at you. I most definitely welcome the same in return. Can you play the game without losing your cool?
Originally posted by sy.gunson
Originally posted by Koffee
Originally posted by sy.gunson
Originally posted by Koffee
If the Nazis had the atomic bomb, they would of used them to destroy the rampaging Soviet armies that was pushing them out of Eastern Europe, or you know drop it on Stalin or hell London then some vain attempt to hit the US in half cocked manner that this conspiracy theory suggests.
Amazingly they did use nuclear weapons against Soviet forces...
Sorry, but your evidence in my post is some uncited Tokyo guy, reporting on rumors (feel free to give me the source). Nor does any else links seem to have something other then some guy's claim on Coast to Coast. Or in other words if you want to convince me of your position, please throw some sources my way.
Nope not some uncited Tokyo guy...
Actually I don't listen to radio talk back or otherwise and I have already mentioned that this was a MAGIC decrypt, in other words an intercepted, enciphered message between the Japanese embassy in Stockholm and the government in Tokyo dated 12 December 1944.
Then you have the problem to account for the fact that Nazi Germany lost the war while supposedly having these superweapons. The question then remains, why didn't they use it on Moscow or Saint Petersburg or actually you know have it change the course of history instead of being wasted away?
Actually I don't have a problem with that at all
USA took all of 1942 to 1945 to produce two nuclear weapons.
Germany apparently had a nuclear weapon they wanted to deliver to Wall Street in September 1944, but now the plane carrying it lies on the seabed south of Owl's Head, Maine...
...No problem at all
This plane crash explains perfectly why they did not win WW2 even though they had a nuclear weapon, but I can see you don't get it.
Originally posted by babybunnies
There is also significant evidence that the Japanese test detonated an atomic bomb at a remote site in what is now North Korea around mid August, 1945, AFTER the bombs were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
It seems as though the scientists who had been working on the project for several years throughout the war wanted to show that it worked.
To this day, the site that they used is closed for public access for miles around, according to reports.
As far as the German bomb goes, the Allies took out the heavy water production facility in Norway, supposedly to stop research and development on a Nazi bomb. What if the Nazi's had actually successfully developed a bomb before then ?
The Germans certainly had the most advanced scientists of the age. Most of the leaders of the US atomic bomb project were actually German scientists who had left Nazi Germany's persecution, such as Einstein. If Hitler hadn't of alienated most of his Jewish scientists, he probably would have had a working atom bomb by the late 30's or early 40's.
Originally posted by Koffee
Again you fail to address the problem that the Germans main efforts and threat was the Soviet Union. If the had a nuclear bomb they would of used it effectively on a Soviet army or on Moscow or something and then made a big deal about how they had a wonder weapon.
Originally posted by sy.gunson
Originally posted by Koffee
Again you fail to address the problem that the Germans main efforts and threat was the Soviet Union. If the had a nuclear bomb they would of used it effectively on a Soviet army or on Moscow or something and then made a big deal about how they had a wonder weapon.
Nope, I addressed it. You just failed to read it or more likely failed to even understand. I can lead you to water but i can't make you drink.
As I said previously from 1942 to 1945 the Allies managed to produce two deliverable atomic bombs.
If Germany by 1944 had only one or two deliverable bombs and UK airspace was impenetrable, then the strike most likely to alter the war and perhaps affect public support for the war at home in USA would have been a strike on New York.
It is a well noted historical fact that Hitler believed this.
It is well known this was Hitler's obsession. I am not going to repeat myself to someone who wont listen because it is just a giant waste of time.edit on 9-4-2012 by sy.gunson because: adjusting quote enclosures
Originally posted by dowot
Sy, another great post.
I wonder just what was going on in Hitlers mind in the later days of the war.
He must have had advisers telling him how dire things were, the Eastern front faltering, no air supremacy over the UK or even Germany, Italy, North Africa all problematic, thoughts of invasion, problems with supply and food. Reports of US experiments in a mega bomb.
Wow that must have been a painful place to be, maybe enough of a turmoil to take irrational action and one where I could see him wanting to return to a better period, when the world was in his grasp.
Is that a reason to consider a strike against the US, especially as it was an early dream.
Of course the advisers would have tried to direct him, in paths that they wanted?
I stress I am not trying to put Hitler in a better light, but he was a human and as such had some of the same thoughts, weaknesses and dreams we all have.
Of course the answer to the OP's idea, is a dive and investigation of the plane, something not that difficult, or is it? If it is, then maybe there is more truth and as I have thought in a previous post, a reason NOT to want to know of another way to provide atomic power, (I believe that the German method was very efficient and simple).
I write this as it becomes obvious that the UK was involved in US rendition flights, thus making UK government statements to the contrary, as possible porkies?
Originally posted by Koffee
...Your evidence thus far presented I seem to be seeing in this thread in embassy reporting rumors from war, a single German pilot, and what your dad said about the war vs/ the fact its a pretty nonsensical scenario (sorry it doesn't make much sense to me so many better targets to hit than US on a single hail Mary)y ou're presenting and abutment historical record that suggests otherwise. But if you have more sources feel free to throw it out to me, a historical revisions of this magnitude if I did it academically would be more then a ph.d paper :p
Originally posted by sy.gunson
Originally posted by Koffee
...Your evidence thus far presented I seem to be seeing in this thread in embassy reporting rumors from war, a single German pilot, and what your dad said about the war vs/ the fact its a pretty nonsensical scenario (sorry it doesn't make much sense to me so many better targets to hit than US on a single hail Mary)y ou're presenting and abutment historical record that suggests otherwise. But if you have more sources feel free to throw it out to me, a historical revisions of this magnitude if I did it academically would be more then a ph.d paper :p
Trouble with critics is that lacking the courage of their convictions, they never post under their real names, they fling lots of mud and abuse at others, but when the facts are proved right they run away and you never hear from them again. I have some friends in the States interested in diving the site of the plane wreck. I also have a newspaper running down the story... Somehow I doubt we will ever hear an apology from you when you are proved wrong.
My father was at Normandy and witnessed with his own eyes... He at least had the balls to be there. Not like an armchair expert.
Your knowledge is just what you read from books.
The dude in the embassy was not just any dude, he was a Defence attache quoting from another identifiable person. If you don't know who Ishiwara Kenji was then it is mute testimony to how feeble your understanding of history really is and you are wasting all our time.
Originally posted by dowot
Against this is an earlier report on the UK Pravda site. (Russian State News), which cast some doubt on the timing of supposed tests, carried out in 1944 and witnessed by a local, which only came to light in the 1960's.
english.pravda.ru...
If it was thought that Germany had a bomb, it would explain any rush to invade and push on in an attempt to stop Russia gaining any advantage.
Evseev states:
...As a result, Germany has commenced the so-called "Uranium Project", whose goal was to create the first nuclear reactor. That is, the theoretical basis for research was very strong. However, the practical implementation has apparently never happened.
Why not? First, because construction of a reactor requires uranium in pure form and large quantities. Germany barely has any deposits. At Czechoslovakia's Jáchymov field controlled by the Nazis since 1938, the uranium compounds are quite difficult to separate from other metals contained in the ore (according to Soviet experts who studied Jáchymov ore after the war, from 16 tons of rock one could get no more than four to six tons of uranium). This uranium was sufficient for laboratory tests, but not enough to create a reactor.
Evseev states:
It was also said that after the seizure of 1,200 Belgium tons of finished ore concentrate of uranium oxide produced in the country were at the disposal of the Germans. However, it seems that the Nazis never used it. According to the reports from the U.S. and Soviet military, nearly the same amount of material was diverted to the U.S. and the USSR after the defeat of Germany, and it was the same Belgian uranium.
Originally posted by Koffee
Originally posted by sy.gunson
Originally posted by Koffee
...Your evidence thus far presented I seem to be seeing in this thread in embassy reporting rumors from war, a single German pilot, and what your dad said about the war vs/ the fact its a pretty nonsensical scenario (sorry it doesn't make much sense to me so many better targets to hit than US on a single hail Mary)y ou're presenting and abutment historical record that suggests otherwise. But if you have more sources feel free to throw it out to me, a historical revisions of this magnitude if I did it academically would be more then a ph.d paper :p
Trouble with critics is that lacking the courage of their convictions, they never post under their real names, they fling lots of mud and abuse at others, but when the facts are proved right they run away and you never hear from them again. I have some friends in the States interested in diving the site of the plane wreck. I also have a newspaper running down the story... Somehow I doubt we will ever hear an apology from you when you are proved wrong.
My father was at Normandy and witnessed with his own eyes... He at least had the balls to be there. Not like an armchair expert.
Your knowledge is just what you read from books.
The dude in the embassy was not just any dude, he was a Defence attache quoting from another identifiable person. If you don't know who Ishiwara Kenji was then it is mute testimony to how feeble your understanding of history really is and you are wasting all our time.
That's alot of insults for a guy who was trying to respectfully say you should provide more evidence. I was trying to leave the thread gracefully so you wouldn't have to feel antagonize and go to provide more evidence if you could. But I am willing to defend myself against these ad hominem.
What mud did I fling at you?
.edit on 10-4-2012 by Koffee because: (no reason given)edit on 10-4-2012 by Koffee because: made a mistakeedit on 10-4-2012 by Koffee because: (no reason given)edit on 10-4-2012 by Koffee because: (no reason given)
I'll be nice in response, the story you suggest is problematic to the extreme with source material that is pretty weak as far I can read it perhaps you're right I'm a big idiot, but its not coming across as convincing nor does it make logical sense to me the story you posit . However, its clear that you think I am not worthy of talking to any more so I'll bow out of the thread and let you continue to make your argument.
edit on 9-4-2012 by Koffee because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by pikestaff
babylonstew once told me the Germans used 'fuelair' bombs against the Russians, but for some reason, stopped, perhaps worried an unexploded bomb might fall into Russian hands?