Sarajevo marks 20th anniversary of Bosnian war's start And Yes CBS Blames The Evil Nazi Serbs

CBS

And New Number 11,541 chairs represent the Sarajevans who were killed

"This city needs to stop for a moment and pay tribute to its killed citizens," said Haris Pasovic, organizer of the "Sarajevo Red Line."

The Serb siege of Sarajevo went on longer than the World War II 900-day siege of Leningrad, now St. Petersburg. Its 380,000 people were left without food, electricity, water or heating for 46 months,


I am from Sarajevo and let me tell you this Americans i am disgusted at the major western mainstream news outlets!


hiding from the 330 shells a day that smashed into the city.

Ah yes the same tactic that is been used in Syria by the rebels? the shelling tactic through the use of artillery?

(Syrian Rebels blames the Syrian government forces for the Attack on Homs, Rebels say the GF used artillery shelling on Homs)

Yeah i am familiar with this specif military tactic it isn't new.

The only thing you gotta make sure what you do is you got to hide the artillery pretty well digged into the ground and then camouflage it.

Here's how they the Bosnian Muslims or there terrorist friends have done it.

WW1 Artillery Camouflaging



That is just one example of Artillery Camouflaging, when i came to Canada from the war and when i heard the tactic i was a bit surprised by it.

ATS did you know for the Artillery shells you could easily find them at the Black markets? depending on whose buying it you could get any sort of weapons,shells for a cheap deal.


Notice how the Mainstream News outlets are trying desperately to compare the Serbs to the Nazis?

The Serb siege of Sarajevo went on longer than the World War II 900-day siege of Leningrad

And what is the reaction on the comment section?

Thanks to CBS for this story, always hard to understand what happened there.

Yes the sheeps have no clue what went and the mainstream media are trying to make things worse.
This comment was posted by dnedim who claims he has been through the war.

I was in Sarajevo during the war and I went horror of the war, lot of my friends were killed or wounded. 11541 is huge number but as someone said " one death is tragedy 100 is statistics" I couldn't release how many people is 11541 'till now. Today while I was walking along 11541 chairs I couldn't stop my tears for all those that have their chairs on the street. I am 44 and I thought that I have seen everything in my life and that nothing can not touch me, but when I saw rows of small chairs my heart wanted jump out of my chests as well as when I saw names of my friends on the video wall that was showing names of those killed during the siege. Sarajevo needed this commemoration event to pay respect to fallen and warn us that we have to build our society of equal, free and proud regardless national, religious or any other affiliation despite to those that still want to divide us. These 11541 chairs are prove that those affiliations were not important for those that were killing us during the siege.

I am 44 and I thought that I have seen everything in my life and that nothing can not touch me,

And you know what dnedim i do saw a lot things i shouldn't have seen as a young child at the age of 5 years old can you imagine a child witnessing all those horrible images like i have?


Its funny that now that new number for those who have dead in the capital city is 11541?


As of right now i am very disgusted and sadden at the Mainstream News, i guess those reporters and anchorman and women only care about there money from the elites like the CFR? and dont even care about the real truth?

In my view journalism has dead years ago.
So ATS do you agree?

as usual, you're not to blame. governments, political parties, so called leaders, etc are to blame.

most people if left alone, live happy, healthy, productive lives. it's the a--holes that want it all that lead the world to war.

the greedy, the selfish, the self-entitled aren't happy with being millionaires, they want to be billionaires. senators aren't happy being senators, they want to be presidents.

and if presidents have their way, they'd want to be dictators. that is the goal of every leader.

jail, assassination or the people are the only things preventing them.

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter






Never forget innocent victims,Everywhere,regardless of Race,Color,or Religion.

Peace My Friend.......

S&F

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
And you know what dnedim i do saw a lot things i shouldn't have seen as a young child at the age of 5 years old can you imagine a child witnessing all those horrible images like i have?

Make a person so distrustful and hateful that its difficult to see the trees while you are standing in the middle of the forest. If you are suggesting one side behaved better than the other then you need to go back and review the incident from start to finish.

Feel free to check up on the german uits delpoyed with the UN and what occured to them when they entered a few cities.. That old nazi salute came back by the people who greeted them.... What about the rape camps? Or are those 50k muslims lying about that?

Things have been simmering for quite some time in Yugoslavia and is was not until Slobodan Milošević came to power did the wheels come of the wagon. Feel free to research some of his speeches and what he said about fixing the country as well as his comments on nationalism.

War Crimes comitted during the Yugoslavian civil war


Out of curiosity do you consider yourself an open minded person when it comes to information and the Yugoslavian wars? Or do you see all the blame being on one isde or the other?

reply to post by Xcathdra


Ah Xcathdra A Typical Pro Elitist Pro Loving American Government type.

I knew you would respond like that

Feel free to check up on the german uits delpoyed with the UN and what occured to them when they entered a few cities.. That old nazi salute came back by the people who greeted them.... What about the rape camps? Or are those 50k muslims lying about that?

What about the rape camps? You mean

50k muslims lying about that?
In war when Western Nations favors your sometimes lying becomes a job.

Picture that fooled the World

Whatever the British news team's intentions may have been, their pictures were seen around the world as the first hard evidence of concentration camps in Bosnia. 'The Proof: behind the barbed wire, the brutal truth about the suffering in Bosnia', announced the Daily Mail alongside a front-page reproduction of the picture from Trnopolje: 'They are the sort of scenes that flicker in black and white images from 50-year-old films of Nazi concentration camps.' (7 August 1992) On the first anniversary of the pictures being taken, an article in the Independent could still use the barbed wire to make the Nazi link: 'The camera slowly pans up the bony torso of the prisoner. It is the picture of famine, but then we see the barbed wire against his chest and it is the picture of the Holocaust and concentration camps.' (5 August 1993)

Your sounding more and more like the Bosnians that i faced on some debates.

reply to post by Xcathdra


I am sorry butt my teachers in college have told me that Wikipedia can be used and edited by anyone speaking of which want me to edit to that page now and see how its easy to do it?

reply to post by Xcathdra


[quote
Feel free to check up on the german uits delpoyed with the UN and what occured to them when they entered a few cities.. That old nazi salute came back by the people who greeted them.... What about the rape camps? Or are those 50k muslims lying about that?


Excuse me but are you compering the Serbs to the Nazis? if so that's very low

What about the rape camps? Or are those 50k muslims lying about that?

And did you know that Bosnian Muslims raped Serbian women in front of there children in Bosnia? the serbian mothers had no choice but to cover up there child and told him or her to act as if they were dead, while there children watched in horror how there mothers were been raped in front of them.


At least that's how a Serbian war survivor told me his story, to this day he said his very uneasy to be around with some people, i cant blame him for that after what he has gone through.


As What about the rape camps claims you do know those camps never existed right?? if they did those women would have come out and name the soldiers at the war court.


But the reality is Xcathdra they haven't done so.

Oh and Xcathdra are you saying 5,000? guess what?

Apparently the media now puts that number lower then that

reply to post by Xcathdra

If you are suggesting one side behaved better

I guess then you would preferred Bosnia as an Islamic state for this what the Serbian people in Bosnia jad been fighting against and feared.

They never wanted a war to happen But the war happened because the Bosnian Muslims wanted every serbs out of Bosnia and proclaim Bosnia as there own it has been documented.

Xcathdra I am from Bosnia i know the history pretty well, ever since the fall of the ottoman empire the Bosnian Muslims felt abandon by the ottoman empire, this is why Bosnia has been making and improving ties with.

Saudi Arabia and Turkey if you dont believe i could post the links.


I will be making some new threads on about the New Bosnia and how its linked a drug cartel network in eastern Europe

Work with several Bosnian refugees. Good, hard-working people.

My understanding of the conflicts that occurred is very vague though. I do not understand what started the conflict nor do I understand who was to blame, etc.

It sounds like all sides were involved in lateral warfare with their peoples caught in the crossfire.

Feel free to correct me.

Regardless, most of my co-workers do not speak ever of this experience. I can't say that I blame them.

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter


Muslim state or not, there is NO excuse for the crimes that were committed!!!!

NO EXCUSE!

Again, my understanding is vague but I do remember the media building up Milosevic as a monster. That's all I remember of this conflict.

Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter

 

Muslim state or not, there is NO excuse for the crimes that were committed!!!!

NO EXCUSE!

Again, my understanding is vague but I do remember the media building up Milosevic as a monster. That's all I remember of this conflict.

there is NO excuse for the crimes that were committed

The same goes for the Bosnian Muslims i am also from Bosnia.

there is NO excuse for the crimes that were committed

That's because what the Western Mainstream news outlets and they always wanted to point and paint NATO as the Good Guys and America has the Good Guys.


They would never dare to paint Bill Clinton as the war Criminal nor that Albright the same Albright that was saved by the Serbs during world war II.


The Mainstream news outlets have been calling Bill Clinton the greatest president? yeah maybe great for the elites like the CFR and there agenda.


My friend The Sword what was happening in Yugoslavia it was all propaganda against the Serbian people, to frame them as evil,Nazis and as a enemy to America.

They wanted.

Problem,Reaction,Solution.
That is how they operate.

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
Ah Xcathdra A Typical Pro Elitist Pro Loving American Government type.

I knew you would respond like that

When in doubt launch an insult.. Im not sure why I expected more from you.

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
What about the rape camps? You mean

50k muslims lying about that?
In war when Western Nations favors your sometimes lying becomes a job.

So anytime something is said that you don't agree with, you just dismiss it out of hand? If 50k mulsim women are capable of lying then 50k serbs are capable of lying, which means 50k Russian are capable....

The point seems to be going over your head...

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
Picture that fooled the World

And I can supply you with Un documentation of the rapes but somehow I think you will ignore it. In your mind I get the impression that anything type of information that challenges your view is dismissed as a lie / false. Going back to my origional comment and question - Is it possible that what you witnessed as a child has so clouded / jaded your view point that you cannot see the trees while standing in the forest?

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
Your sounding more and more like the Bosnians that i faced on some debates.

edit on 7-4-2012 by Agent_USA_Supporter because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-4-2012 by Agent_USA_Supporter because: (no reason given)

Which is all nice and fine but you failed to address the issue I brought up about your experiences and how those experieces have affected your view / objectivity.

In case you did not notice your response is loaded with accusations at me and dismissal of the quenstions and info I raised.

Why is it so hard for you to engage in debate and discussion without launching attacks against people who don't agree with your position?

reply to post by Xcathdra

And I can supply you with Un documentation of the rapes but somehow I think you will ignore it. In your mind I get the impression that anything type of information that challenges your view is dismissed as a lie / false. Going back to my origional comment and question - Is it possible that what you witnessed as a child has so clouded / jaded your view point that you cannot see the trees while standing in the forest?

Excuse me?

- Is it possible that what you witnessed as a child has so clouded / jaded your view point that you cannot see the trees while standing in the forest?

During the war in Bosnia we were saved by the UNPROFOR with the operation titled Nada, i have seen Bosnian Muslims raping children and Croatians Raping Muslims. I could list on and on on what i saw but i dont want it to make it huge.

I can supply you with Un documentation of the rapes but somehow I think you will ignore it. In your mind I get the impression that anything type of information that challenges your view is dismissed as a lie / false.

The reason i will ignore it is simple, the report was brought up by the united states of America to the UN.
and back then UN was pretty sided with America regrading.

I guess since your believing the UN reports so much Do you believe the UN report that were no Human rights abuses by gaddafi?

I believe i already challenged you on that but you didn't respond on that.

as a child has so clouded / jaded your view point that you cannot see the trees while standing in the forest?

This a typical response i would get from you and i know what your trying to do, It isn't going to work.

Your trying to turn me over to support the Bosnian Muslims and everything what i have been throughout the war and you want me to support them? No.


dont get me wrong i to in Bosnia had Muslim friends and there families that weren't radicals.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Excuse me?

Why is it so hard for you to engage in debate and discussion without launching attacks against people who don't agree with your position?

First off i haven't launched any attacks against you, that's a lie, i have only stated that you support the American government and that you love it and you call that an attack?

Why is it so hard for you to engage in debate and discussion without launching attacks against people who don't agree with your position?

Since your new, i have debate the issue on about Bosnia Since 2006 look back on my threads, on about Bosnia.
You remind me of a Bosnian that has exchanged with me in a heated debate on about around 2007 i believe.


And for your information Xcathdra i have been following the events on about the Balkans since i was a teenager.
Again about the rape you claim its 5,000 others show just 1,000


What your doing is exaggerating.

Based on your random response to my one post I apparently hit a nerve. You really need to get out of your mindset when it comes to my posts that im attacking you. I am challenging your position and view point based on my own research. You lived there and experienced, I have not.

Does that mean you are an expert or I am an expert? Absolutely not.

As I stated you had a first hand account to specific situations from one side of the issue. I see both sides from a distance.

Your position includes anger towards one side.
My position has no anger towards either side.

You have a vested interest, respectfully, to ensure the side of history you were part of, comes out to be the one and only correct side.

I dont..

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
Xcathdra I am from Bosnia i know the history pretty well, ever since the fall of the ottoman empire the Bosnian Muslims felt abandon by the ottoman empire, this is why Bosnia has been making and improving ties with.

Saudi Arabia and Turkey if you dont believe i could post the links.

Im not doubting nor debating about their current affairs or foreign policy. What I am stating is at times it is difficult to see the trees while standing in the middle of the forest. Your view point, which is valid in your eyes, is somewhat compromised in my view.

Do you think its possible to be so close to a situation that it becomes almost impossible to be objective? Or do you feel that being so close to an issue that it allows a person to speak as an expert?

If its the latter then a follow up - If being so close to a situation makes a person an expert, exactly how far does that expertise go? Does it make you an expert on both sides of the conflict or just the one you were part of?

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
I will be making some new threads on about the New Bosnia and how its linked a drug cartel network in eastern Europe

edit on 7-4-2012 by Agent_USA_Supporter because: (no reason given)

when you do shoot me a U2U... I would like to take part in that thread as we are seeing more and moe evidence of how interlinked the globaldrug trade is.

For what its worth, and again I mean this with all due respect, but please stop taking differences we have with each in other threads and continuing to drag them into new ones. Just because we dont agree on one issues doesnt mean we cant be in agreement on others.Its not prductive, it detracts from the topic and flow of the discussion and debate as well as undermines what it is you hope to accomplish by creating the thread.

You have a tendency, imo, to take my posts and challeneges as being personal, when its anything but. You yourself states the western media has a tendency to be more propoganda than fact. The best way to persuade people to that point of view is to support your argument, not attack the other side.

When I challenge your position come back at me with facts and examples. Its a perfect opprotunity to support your position while possibly changing the minds of people, including mine.

Also, stop with the comments about what I beleive and dont believe. You dont know me nor you have never taken the time to get to know me.

I have raised questions and supplied information to support the premis of the questions.

Please quit taking my posts personally...

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
During the war in Bosnia we were saved by the UNPROFOR with the operation titled Nada, i have seen Bosnian Muslims raping children and Croatians Raping Muslims. I could list on and on on what i saw but i dont want it to make it huge.

Did you also witness the infamous free running zoo Lion eating little children ?

I'm not sure am i allowed to call you a liar on ATS, but i'll say it anyway. You sir are lying and there is an agenda behind this thread and all of your posts on here.

Demagogy (/ˈdɛməɡɒdʒi/[1]) or demagoguery (/ˈdɛməɡɒɡəri/[2]) (Greek: δημαγωγία, from δῆμος dēmos "people" and ἄγειν agein "to lead") is a strategy for gaining political power by appealing to the prejudices, emotions, fears, vanities, and expectations of the public – typically via impassioned rhetoric and propaganda and often using nationalist, populist, or religious themes.

reply to post by Xcathdra


I rather do not want to talk on what i experienced to much i dont want to look back at my past, but let me tell you this when i hear the Bosnian Muslims say or even suggest that 90% of the war crimes that were committed by the Serbian people is very false and that always makes me Angry because that isn't even 1000% correct

What they are doing is exaggerating it.


Just so you know Xcathdra no one wanted a war in Bosnia, but the Bosnian Muslims wanted because they wanted an Islamic state and as for the Croatians? well since WWII they wanted there independent State.

But with a price, because of the independent state of Croatia it gave birth to Neo Nazism.
Xcathdra i understand what your saying.

Originally posted by Exitt

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
During the war in Bosnia we were saved by the UNPROFOR with the operation titled Nada, i have seen Bosnian Muslims raping children and Croatians Raping Muslims. I could list on and on on what i saw but i dont want it to make it huge.

Did you also witness the infamous free running zoo Lion eating little children ?

I'm not sure am i allowed to call you a liar on ATS, but i'll say it anyway. You sir are lying and there is an agenda behind this thread and all of your posts on here.

Demagogy (/ˈdɛməɡɒdʒi/[1]) or demagoguery (/ˈdɛməɡɒɡəri/[2]) (Greek: δημαγωγία, from δῆμος dēmos "people" and ἄγειν agein "to lead") is a strategy for gaining political power by appealing to the prejudices, emotions, fears, vanities, and expectations of the public – typically via impassioned rhetoric and propaganda and often using nationalist, populist, or religious themes.

I have a picture of the operation that was carried out by UNPROFOR and its a Croatian News Paper print want me to scan it?

Originally posted by Exitt

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
During the war in Bosnia we were saved by the UNPROFOR with the operation titled Nada, i have seen Bosnian Muslims raping children and Croatians Raping Muslims. I could list on and on on what i saw but i dont want it to make it huge.

Did you also witness the infamous free running zoo Lion eating little children ?

I'm not sure am i allowed to call you a liar on ATS, but i'll say it anyway. You sir are lying and there is an agenda behind this thread and all of your posts on here.

Demagogy (/ˈdɛməɡɒdʒi/[1]) or demagoguery (/ˈdɛməɡɒɡəri/[2]) (Greek: δημαγωγία, from δῆμος dēmos "people" and ἄγειν agein "to lead") is a strategy for gaining political power by appealing to the prejudices, emotions, fears, vanities, and expectations of the public – typically via impassioned rhetoric and propaganda and often using nationalist, populist, or religious themes.

propaganda and often using nationalist, populist, or religious themes.

Ah you must be thinking (Oh your with the Evil Serbs and There Serbian propaganda machine)

You sir are lying and there is an agenda behind this thread and all of your posts on here.

Really now? just because i have the thread name of Sarajevo marks 20th anniversary of Bosnian war's start And Yes CBS Blames The Evil Nazi Serbs? and the way i replied?

Look i am not trying to gain any gaining political power and its a shame on what some ATS members have become by accusing others of either lying or claiming they have agenda.


Exitt What do you know about me? did you know because of the war in Bosnia i had War trauma and a doctor in Italy give me medicines for it?

Yeah i guess your going to say i am lying on about that to

Or the fact that i had a near death experience during the war as a Child? are you going to say i am lying on about that?

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
Exitt What do you know about me? did you know because of the war in Bosnia i had War trauma and a doctor in Italy give me medicines for it?

Like i said, this is a political thread so please spare us this cheap Demagogy. ATS is a large community and some of us know how to play the game. You and I both that is.

You could write about the history, social issues and reasons behind the war in Bosnia but you choose not to. Your posts (and experience) are worthless so to say in a thread about politics except the part where you try to 'appeal to emotions and fears of the public via impassioned rhetoric' .. and it is not working i might add.
Unfortunately for you.