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Originally posted by Firepac
Originally posted by edmc^2
Originally posted by Philodemus
reply to post by edmc^2
I understand your point and even though I disagree I have to admit that it is tempting to believe the way you do. However, I have a serious problem with just assuming it is a loving entity that has done it and that he is a God and not just a more powerful, longer lived entity then we are.
It's not an assumption friend but based on facts evidence by observation.
Case in point - location of the planet earth.
Why do they call it the "Goldilocks Zone"?
Is it just by coincidence that we're in this specific zone?
Consider also the neighboring planets and Galaxies - did they just came to be there or were they strategically placed there? For what reason?
Any idea?
tc.edit on 6-4-2012 by edmc^2 because: put - place
Mars is also located in the Goldilock Zone so what's your point?
“Asteroids and comets hit us but not excessively so, thanks to the presence of giant gas planets such as Jupiter beyond us,”
Originally posted by xxsomexpersonxx
reply to post by edmc^2
If you roll a D20 once, expecting a 5, you may have a coincidence. If you roll a D20 800 times, you'll inevitably get at least one five, and likely many more.
I know the odds of a planet being right for life is much lower than 1/20, but if every planet can be considered a roll, the massive universe, with more planets than we could ever imagine, is still out rolling the odds.
We see many planets in possible Goldilocks zones. We don't have the resources to know which ones have life on them, yet. However, the point still remains, we're not here by chance, accident, or design. We're here by the size of the universe stacking the odds so thoroughly in the favor of life appearing, that it'd be a crazy accident for life to not develop anywhere.
we're not here by chance, accident,
???
"by design"
We're here by the size of the universe stacking the odds so thoroughly in the favor of life appearing, that it'd be a crazy accident for life to not develop anywhere.
Originally posted by Barcs
Originally posted by edmc^2
Too bad you have no appreciation of true science, because if you do - you should be able to confirm and see what many great minds have already seen. That is, that the universe is governed by a highly precise and fine tuned laws. And that such fined tuned laws require precision planning and great thinking ability. An ability not produced by mere accident and chance but by a great mind - God.
I'm just tired of debating the same topic over and over in every single thread, which is basically yours and others' opinions. A finely tuned universe where life is so incredibly rare. That really makes sense for an "intelligent" designer. The problem is not my appreciation for science. I absolutely love science. The problem is your lack of understanding about science and what constitutes as objective evidence or proof. You cannot prove that the laws of the universe were made by some extra dimensional being. You cannot prove that RNA was designed and didn't emerge naturally. You can't prove a single thing you are talking about. It is your opinion about the universe. It is faith based.
No, I just don't put stake in things that lack objective evidence. That's your department.
To you this is nonsense because you've already convinced yourself that chance and accidents are the causal force.
Because to you such profound statement as:
“every house is constructed by someone, but he that constructed all things is God.” (Hebrews 3:4)
is nonsense and doesn't mean a thing. You've already shown yourself to be incapable of logic and most of all common sense. Thus there's no evidence in the universe for someone who refuse to see the obvious.
Logic and science do not support your theory. I'm sorry but its true. No matter how much you are in awe of nature, and the complexity of DNA, and the laws of the universe (the way it is), there is not a single piece of evidence to suggest god exists or a process of design ever happened.
"The universe is the way it is. That totally proves design!!" That is essentially your entire basis for your argument. I'm just hoping that one day you'll acknowledge your faith as actual faith, and admit its just your opinion, instead of trying to preach to others about science and proof of god when this isn't even close.
edit on 8-4-2012 by Barcs because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by MrXYZ
Originally posted by edmc^2
Originally posted by MrXYZ
Argument from complexity...again
It's a typical fallacy...one you keep on using in most of your threads
Of course it's a fallacy to you because you don't accept that the Universe is Highly Fine Tuned.
Furthermore since you have no concept of what a complex system is thus it's fallacy. It's like showing showing an iphone to a swine or a dog. Since they have no concept of how complex the iphone is thus it's nothing to them.
In other words, a highly fine tuned system like the Universe is a fallacy to you. Am i right?
Unless you wanna change your mind.
tc
I'm talking about arguments from fallacy...the ones you keep on using over and over again. Here's the explanation of why you are WRONG.
You can't just imply god every time something is complex ("fine tuned"). In ancient times they did that with diseases, comets, the sun going "up and down", and so on...
Not sure what else to say, it's a FACT that you are using an argument that's nonsense
The whole universe IS fine tuned for our existence... It's noones fault but your own if you fail to see it, and we ARE special, we are NOT insignificant. Keep telling yourself your life is pointless, you are insignificant, and the universe is a random mass of chaos and destruction, and I'll keep telling myself my life has meaning, that I am significant, and the universe is finely tuned for us..... Whatever makes you "happy".....
Originally posted by Iason321
reply to post by Astyanax
You do not know what you speak of.
Originally posted by Iason321
reply to post by john_bmth
It depends.
This is not some fantasy I came up with in my own mind....I have had REAL world, REAL LIFE, FIRSTHAND encounters with the LORD.
Originally posted by Iason321
reply to post by MrXYZ
No, I would question them and wonder what kind of hallucinogens are in their area and what the local folklore is, and I would also look into what authority their "snake god or monkey god or whatever" has, and I would see if there were 2+ billion followers of those "gods", and I would also research if those "gods" have accurately predicted world events since the beginning of time and given us the entire history of humankind from A to Z.
How about this then - since we cannot mutually agree on this, let us atleast agree to this - Christians ought to stop evangelizing so much in public (although I see no problem with having prayer posters or other things in public schools, or reading a Bible in school - I don't give atheists a hard time for reading Dawkins the God delusion, so why should atheists give us a hard time about reading our Bibles?), and Atheists should stop jamming there beliefs down Americas throat (with there God doesn't exist campaigns and other nonsense).
Seeing as how neither side can provide solid, objective, empircal evidence, when all's said and done, were both just spouting off our ideologies and beliefs and arguing over whos right and who's wrong...
What do you think?
Originally posted by Iason321
reply to post by MrXYZ
How about this then - since we cannot mutually agree on this, let us atleast agree to this - Christians ought to stop evangelizing so much in public (although I see no problem with having prayer posters or other things in public schools, or reading a Bible in school - I don't give atheists a hard time for reading Dawkins the God delusion, so why should atheists give us a hard time about reading our Bibles?), and Atheists should stop jamming there beliefs down Americas throat (with there God doesn't exist campaigns and other nonsense).
Seeing as how neither side can provide solid, objective, empircal evidence, when all's said and done, were both just spouting off our ideologies and beliefs and arguing over whos right and who's wrong...
What do you think?
Originally posted by Blarneystoner
I’ve read many articles regarding this topic and they basically all come to the same conclusions. There are three possible explanations for the "finely tuned" Universe:
1. It is a simulation
2. There are multiple parallel Universes and ours happens to be perfect for the formation of Galaxies and Stars
3. God created it.
OK… maybe one more: All of the above.
Imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, "This is an interesting world I find myself in — an interesting hole I find myself in — fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!" This is such a powerful idea that as the sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and as, gradually, the puddle gets smaller and smaller, it's still frantically hanging on to the notion that everything's going to be alright, because this world was meant to have him in it, was built to have him in it; so the moment he disappears catches him rather by surprise. I think this may be something we need to be on the watch out for. We all know that at some point in the future the Universe will come to an end and at some other point, considerably in advance from that but still not immediately pressing, the sun will explode. We feel there's plenty of time to worry about that, but on the other hand that's a very dangerous thing to say.