Mail Bomb: The Republican Sabotage of the Post Office

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posted on Apr, 6 2012 @ 05:45 PM
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Originally posted by Gridrebel

YES.....I READ IT. The fact that the democrats have a big fat fail to do anything when they could have turned the whole thing around is the democrats FAIL. The ball was in their court for a heck of a long time and they failed to address this issue along with many others. So now, we get this:


How did you turn the The Postal Accountability Enforcement Act, which was a GOP sponsored
Act, into the fault of the Democrats???

I doubt get it...




posted on Apr, 6 2012 @ 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by braindeadconservatives
reply to post by David9176
 


All the talk about Cloward Piven... I think it is the right wing strategy to
engineer failure in the things they don't like, or to create long term situations
that ensure the outcome they are trying to facilitate. As you can see this
won't get any attention here because right wingers don't look at what they do.
Exactly what happened with Bush - "look away.look away..." Then come in
and terrify the once sleeping conservatives, so they will go out protest the
results of the policies the right wing politicians created. It is so simple
it is genius, blame your rivals for the things you do,
this seems to be an extreme case of that.

edit on 6-4-2012 by braindeadconservatives because: (no reason given)


You have pretty much summed up the past 40 years of "Starve the Beast" Conservative policy.

It should really be called "Binge and Purge".
Binge on spending.
Purge taxes.

Not particularly healthy when you think about it.

And like most people with eating disorders, they live in delusion.



posted on Apr, 6 2012 @ 06:55 PM
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So in 2009/2010, the Democrats maintained control of the U.S. Senate in the 2010 elections for the third consecutive Congressional session. The Democrats maintained controlled of the House until November 2, 2010

H.R. 22 (111th): United States Postal Service Financial Relief Act of 2009
111th Congress, 2009–2010
To amend title 5, United States Code, to reduce the amount that the United States Postal Service is required to pay into the Postal Service Retiree Health Benefits Fund by the end of fiscal year 2009.
Sponsor:
Rep. John McHugh [R-NY23, 2003-2009]
Status:
Died (Passed House)


Maybe my facts are wrong but I see this as a fail by the Democrats. Way back when.



posted on Apr, 6 2012 @ 07:06 PM
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Originally posted by Gridrebel
So in 2009/2010, the Democrats maintained control of the U.S. Senate in the 2010 elections for the third consecutive Congressional session. The Democrats maintained controlled of the House until November 2, 2010

H.R. 22 (111th): United States Postal Service Financial Relief Act of 2009
111th Congress, 2009–2010
To amend title 5, United States Code, to reduce the amount that the United States Postal Service is required to pay into the Postal Service Retiree Health Benefits Fund by the end of fiscal year 2009.
Sponsor:
Rep. John McHugh [R-NY23, 2003-2009]
Status:
Died (Passed House)


Maybe my facts are wrong but I see this as a fail by the Democrats. Way back when.


Of course you see it that way, you are trying to create a reason to see it that way in
your head so you don't have to challenge your beliefs.
Nobody forced the Republicans to do that...



posted on Apr, 6 2012 @ 07:14 PM
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My thought s why worry about the post office let them implode . They have to make money to survive should we give them welfare we see how well thats worked out with the public



posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 10:44 PM
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reply to post by braindeadconservatives
 





Of course you see it that way, you are trying to create a reason to see it that way in your head so you don't have to challenge your beliefs. Nobody forced the Republicans to do that...


Well this thread went no where. Then again, shouldn't be surprised. The character of this website has really gone downhill.

Obama birth certificate threads are far more important.
edit on 7-4-2012 by David9176 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 11:48 PM
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"Section 803 -


Transfers responsibility for paying the government's contribution of the health benefits of postal annuitants, effective in FY2017, from the Postal Service to the Postal Service Retiree Health Benefits Fund (established by this section) up to the amount contained in the Fund, with any remaining amount to be paid by the United States Postal Service. Establishes in the Treasury the Postal Service Retiree Health Benefits Fund, to be administered by OPM. Requires the Postal Service, beginning in 2007, to compute the net present value of the future payments required and attributable to the service of Postal Service employees during the most recently ended fiscal year, along with a schedule if annual installments which provides for the liquidation of any liability or surplus by 2056. Directs the Postal Service, for each year, to pay into the above Fund such net present value and the annual installment due under the amortization schedule. Makes OPM actuarial computations subject to PRC review. "

The measure passed with unanimous consent! This doesn't look like an attempt to derail the USPS, it looks like an attempt to wean it off the government teet.

Perhaps the downtrend in USPS profits was missed by those in congress, but it seems silly to accuse the senate of plotting to destroy the Postal Service. The most notable problem is that which an aging economy faces- the inability to continue paying for full life benifits. The current system is unsustainable! I guess socialism doesn't work!



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 12:26 AM
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Hi David, missed your thread the first time around.

Wow, I can't say I'm too surprised by this latest tactic of the GOP, they could care less about the post office, they just want to break another union. Forcing ANY institution to fund a pension plan 75 years down the road, for future employees that aren't even BORN yet - it's outright insanity. No other institution or company has ever had this forced on them. From your link:


Rolando lays out the real root of the problem: "The problem lies elsewhere: the 2006 congressional mandate that the USPS pre-fund future retiree health benefits for the next 75 years, and do so within a decade, an obligation no other public agency or private firm faces. The roughly $5.5 billion annual payments since 2007 — $21 billion total — are the difference between a positive and negative ledger."



Postal Service management recently claimed: “If we were a private company, we would have already filed for bankruptcy and gone through restructuring—much like major automakers did two years ago.” NALC responded by calling this claim the "Big Lie." If the USPS were a private company, NALC argued, it wouldn't have been subjected to the pre-funding requirement and it would've been profitable, since the pre-funding requirement is responsible for 100 percent of the Service's losses in recent years.


In other words, the GOP congressional mandate in 2006 to pre-fund pensions for 75 years was created to force the USPS into the appearance of "not being profitable". Their goal is obvious - privatize the USPS, so we can all start paying $5 to mail a letter across town.

The solution to the current USPS solvency problem is simple. CHANGE THE 2006 MANDATE and make it the same as applied to FedEx or UPS. They aren't forced into such a ridiculous mandate.

USPS is still a great bargain for mailing a letter compared to FedEx or UPS, and especially when compared to mail delivery in Europe. Americans don't appreciate how cheap our mail delivery is. For-profit services like UPS also aren't saddled with the burden of maintaining an office in every single remote zip code across the states. No matter how 'backwater' and remote a zip code is, there's a postmaster and a post office. UPS and FedEx would never cater to unprofitable locations like that.

Let the USPS charge the going market rate for delivery, end this insane 75-year funding mandate, and watch how quickly the USPS becomes profitable again.



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 12:53 AM
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oops i think im wrong here
edit on 8-4-2012 by aching_knuckles because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 12:56 AM
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Originally posted by David9176
reply to post by braindeadconservatives
 





Of course you see it that way, you are trying to create a reason to see it that way in your head so you don't have to challenge your beliefs. Nobody forced the Republicans to do that...


Well this thread went no where. Then again, shouldn't be surprised. The character of this website has really gone downhill.

Obama birth certificate threads are far more important.
edit on 7-4-2012 by David9176 because: (no reason given)


Well what do you expect... You can post page after page of proof of the Republicans #ing us and the braindead jackwagons will just say "Oh yeh, well them damn librul Demacrats, its all their fault! U-S-A!"..see post on the first page.

Seriously I dont know what to do in America anymore, the ignorance is so rampant.
edit on 8-4-2012 by aching_knuckles because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 01:17 AM
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reply to post by Blackmarketeer
 


Exactly, privatize everything and make sure thirty people can make a few billion.


GOP

"We want to make rich people richer!"

(Once the rich people get richer and everyone else gets poorer they can't even put it
together, really.)

edit on 8-4-2012 by braindeadconservatives because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 01:29 AM
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reply to post by braindeadconservatives
 



Exactly, privatize everything and make sure thirty people can make a few billion.

These people are completely clueless to what they really support when it is practiced,
it is truly the lose of any mental competency for the masses. Too dumb to even realize
1+1= 2

GOP

We want to make rich people richer!

Once the rich people get richer and everyone else gets poorer they can't even put it
together, really.


Amen, and the rich people they're helping aren't doing anything for America, they're extracting their wealth and ferreting it away in offshore locales and not contributing anything back to America, not even their share of taxes. It's like the Mob bosses have taken over and are burning down the business to extract every last dime from it before abandoning it. This 2006 mandate is just another in-your-face dismantling of the working class.

Guarantee that if the GOP forced Exxon-Mobil to pre-fund their employees pensions 75 years into the future, you'd have Exxon looking "unprofitable" too.
edit on 8-4-2012 by Blackmarketeer because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 01:44 AM
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Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
reply to post by braindeadconservatives
 



Exactly, privatize everything and make sure thirty people can make a few billion.

These people are completely clueless to what they really support when it is practiced,
it is truly the lose of any mental competency for the masses. Too dumb to even realize
1+1= 2

GOP

We want to make rich people richer!

Once the rich people get richer and everyone else gets poorer they can't even put it
together, really.


Amen, and the rich people they're helping aren't doing anything for America, they're extracting their wealth and ferreting it away in offshore locales and not contributing anything back to America, not even their share of taxes. It's like the Mob bosses have taken over and are burning down the business to extract every last dime from it before abandoning it. This 2006 mandate is just another in-your-face dismantling of the working class.

Guarantee that if the GOP forced Exxon-Mobil to pre-fund their employees pensions 75 years into the future, you'd have Exxon looking "unprofitable" too.
edit on 8-4-2012 by Blackmarketeer because: (no reason given)



That is the beauty of conservatism and that is why conservatism is so corruptible.
Base speaking, is like electing baby haters to look after children. But beyond that
very simple conflict, it serves them to make government unsuccessful and inept.
Really, in reality, not rhetorically - it's f-ing crazy to have people who hate working
class people to govern a country of working class people.

"See America, Government sucks!" (cause you made it so scum bag)
edit on 8-4-2012 by braindeadconservatives because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 01:46 AM
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Originally posted by mikellmikell
My thought s why worry about the post office let them implode . They have to make money to survive should we give them welfare we see how well thats worked out with the public


/facepalm

honestly, i love freedom of speech and all, but stupid speech really gets my goat.



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 10:32 AM
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I've known about this for months perhaps even as long as a year, whenever this first came to light. Don't be surprised that die-hard party lovers will come and derail your thread with misinformation and parroted talking points. People will ignore the fact that the Post Office is fully funded by it's own business plan and the act you are talking about is meant to crush it so it can be privatized. Some people think business obeys some magical laws of a free market, which seems to be defined different by every individual, in our obviously corporate controlled existence. When was the last time GE or Goldman Sachs faced market rule? Free markets depend upon consumers having the complete and utter truth about a company and its products, but we all know that advertising is the complete opposite of this. Privatization of social needs is always detrimental to society. Just look up private prisons if you think different.

Some are still so involved in the two-party system that they are basically just fanbois of one party or another. Democrats had the chance to right this wrong, yet they didn't. Why? They are the same party basically. The GOP is 100% the "champion" of multinational corporations and privatization of every sector of society, but the democrats have their own agenda which isn't ours. The democrats support the multinationals and financial sector just as much, even if their propaganda, aka talking points, is different from what Republicans use to pander to their bases. Democrats play off of people's want of fairness and of putting people and society above monolithic institutions like corporations or even religious establishments. In reality, neither supports the people. I think from now on, any blowhard who still believes either establishment works for us or in our benefit should be left behind in conversation. Diehard republicans or diehard democrats should be treated as trolls, wanting only to derail meaningful conversation by inserting personal attacks or misinformation to muddy the waters of intellectual debate. Anyone using talking points is obviously a person who cannot think for themselves. They have nothing to say, so lets keep them from getting us angry and helping the political and business establishments destroy this country for their own profit, whether power or wealth which is really one in the same thing.

To sum up, the destruction of the Postal Service was done on purpose by Republicans and faces no opposition from Democrats. The Post Office is fully funded through its own business plan and not through tax dollars, unlike Goldman Sachs or GE or insert large multinational corporation here. Privatization is never a good option for social needs, that is unless you favor the even further fleecing of Americans and the further destruction of society for the benefit of the few at the cost of everyone else. Like I said, just look to private prisons for a dose of reality. The PO pays very well and still has a retirement plan, while still being totally funded through it's business plan, and shows that these large corporations should be paying Americans a hell of a lot more than they are. Keep electing the two establishments, which are mutually involved in the sell-out of America to private business interests, and keep complaining that America sucks and trying to assign blame to a scapegoat while you ignore the true situation. Keep parroting those talking points! I even saw a thread by a "conservative" saying not to reply if you want to tell me the two-party system is an illusion. They knew the truth, yet preferred to live in fantasy land. Amazing.



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 11:31 AM
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Originally posted by Blackmarketeer>snip<

In other words, the GOP congressional mandate in 2006 to pre-fund pensions for 75 years was created to force the USPS into the appearance of "not being profitable". Their goal is obvious - privatize the USPS, so we can all start paying $5 to mail a letter across town.

The solution to the current USPS solvency problem is simple. CHANGE THE 2006 MANDATE and make it the same as applied to FedEx or UPS. They aren't forced into such a ridiculous mandate.
Pre-funding pensions sounds reasonable to me. If you're going to guarantee payments to former employees (give pensions), you should have the money to do so, no?

USPS is still a great bargain for mailing a letter compared to FedEx or UPS, and especially when compared to mail delivery in Europe. Americans don't appreciate how cheap our mail delivery is. For-profit services like UPS also aren't saddled with the burden of maintaining an office in every single remote zip code across the states. No matter how 'backwater' and remote a zip code is, there's a postmaster and a post office. UPS and FedEx would never cater to unprofitable locations like that.

Let the USPS charge the going market rate for delivery, end this insane 75-year funding mandate, and watch how quickly the USPS becomes profitable again.
Funny thing is that FedEx and UPS do not offer the same services the USPS does, and are prohibited by law from doing so. Only the USPS can deliver normal, regular mail. It is a federal offense for anyone other than the USPS or the resident to access a mail box.

And the USPS does compete in the express package delivery system, and they DO charge the "going market rate" for that service. What would be better would be to allow private companies to perform the basic mail services the USPS is entitled to.

edit on 4/8/2012 by abecedarian because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 11:57 AM
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Operationally speaking, the USPS nets profits every year. The financial problem it faces now comes from a 2006 Congressional mandate that requires the agency to “pre-pay” into a fund that covers health care costs for future retired employees. Under the mandate, the USPS is required to make an annual $5.5 billion payment over ten years, through 2016.



If the Post Office "payment" was only $5.5 billion annually thru 2016,

Hows come the 111th Congress (with Dem control of all committees btw)

did not simply include funding thru 2016 in the $700+ billion stimulus bill ??

What stopped them from doing that ?

Was that even considered ?

And, why haven't they considered placing post Office "retirees" on early Medicare ?



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 12:03 PM
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reply to post by xuenchen
 


Adding to post above:

The 110th Congress (Dem controlled) could have done the same thing
with the 1st stimulus in 2008.

?????

Where were they ?



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 12:08 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

While this bill was indeed a travesty of justice and an exodus from common sense, what is also an exodus from common sense is to try and blame it on a partisan issue.

HR22, The Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act, passed the House of Representatives on July 26, 2005 with a vote of 410 yea / 20 nay. Of those 410 yeas, 208 were Republicans, 201 were Democrats, and one was Independent. Of the 20 nay votes, all were by Republicans.

No Democrats voted against this; 20 Republicans did. Nancy Pelosi herself voted for the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act.

It is possible to deny ignorance without resorting to embracing ignorance in the process. Partisan politics is the height of ignorance.

All above data retrieved from the Library of Congress.

TheRedneck

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 12:15 PM
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Survival of the fittest... I'm glad the post office is shutting down.. Fed ex and UPS do a much better job.. But to blame it on the republicans is way out there...

frankly the USPS is a government agency that is way too bloated for its own good

good riddance...





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