It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Van Jones group plans American’s “Arab Spring” revolt

page: 4
11
<< 1  2  3   >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 03:31 AM
link   

Originally posted by sdcigarpig
reply to post by XPLodER
 



Lets take a page from history, and see what a movement can do to the political arena:

history is the blueprint for occupy



When Ghandi was working towards freeing the people of India, there was already a movement with no real leader, that the people backed or supported. He came onto the scene, and the people of India followed him, and his ideas on how to force the British out of India. He followed what the people wanted, but at the same time, leading the country to be free, against all odds, even working against his own people.


a leader must be asked to lead by the support of the movement.
in the phrase "be the change you want to see" people are asked to all be leaders by example
as it is only when the people change first that results follow


But lets look at something closer to home. Martin Luther King Jr, had an effect on the people. He was not well known, but saw injustice, and lead a movement, speaking for everyone who was oppressed to gain civil rights and the removal of the laws that were unjust.

i have alot of respect for this man and he too is a major historical reflection on how to change injustice, his teachings are also of unity



In each case both leaders were willing to die for their cause, willing to take the praise and accept responsibility for those in the movements, even when others did not think that they should. The goals were very clear cut as were the leaders, who were willing to give everything to see it through to the end. And the world is a better place for it.

weather you realise it or not OWS as a leaderless movement is worldwide who would or could speak for the world?


The OWS is misguided and does not represent anyone but themselves, ultimately will fail again, cause there is no leader, no goals, save that which is misguided as they go after the symptom, not the cause. Like a poor marksman, they keep missing the target.

incorrect,
1. insider trading politicans tick
2. corperate written and sponcered legislation spot lighted (ALEC) tick
3. draw attension and education to HOW the finacial crash was for profit tick
4. remind americans that what the banks describe as "toxic assets" are acually american comunities and their houses
5.instigate discussions into state infrastructure banks tick
6. allow ALL ditractors to point out the govenments complisity in the banking crimes tick

and when everyone is educated and angry about HOW and WHO stole thier money
they will find a seven headed wall street, corrupt politicians, corperations, DOD, DOJ,federal reserve and DHS beast in plain sight


ant to improve the economy and things, then go after those who really caused this problem, the very government that is suppose to keep tabs on this and who are suppose to govern wisely, instead of following the special interest group.
history has lessons to be learnt when the beast is "hidden" wall street runs the govenment and the govenment has special standing to concider,
when wall street is exposed so too will be the corrupt politicians
patience is a lesson i have yet master

xploder




posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 02:27 PM
link   
reply to post by XPLodER
 


Here again, you point out the symptom, yet fail to see the root cause of the problems.

The reality is that you can not do business in the United States of America, without the approval of the county, city, state and even the federal governments. They call they shots, they set the rules and dictate how business must be done. They have done such for years, far longer, close to over 100 years.
Taking your points:

1) Insider Trading: That is not only against the law, but those who are caught are subject to prosecution. However, there are a few in congress, senators and US representatives (Who have been caught and were not prosecuted)

2) Last time I checked, all legislation requires that some one in government actually sign off on such. Playing to the constituents who donate and or vote seems to be the order of the day. Perhaps if politicians were not so worried about such, then just maybe they might be able to get something done.

3) Draw attention and education to how the financial crash was for profit? There is nothing in the law that says that banks have to back those who were given loans. They are entitled to hedge against said loans. That is of course federal law.

4) So are you saying those who should not have been given credit or a loan, should not have been? Seems like that at the time, the pressure was on Washington, and the regulators to loosen up the rules to allow for those who could not afford and should not have been given loans, were pressured into doing such.

5) State banks and all banks that run in the US have to deal with a set of rules and laws the govern them, or they can be shut down by the government.

6) Yes it was the very same government that allowed this to happen, however, in the end with all of the facts in, there are a few that was not accounted for:
The facts that the best minds can come up with is that this was caused by the deregulation of the banks and easy credit. People who should not have been given loans or that easy credit. This causes inflations and ballooning of the different markets, that later started to collapse and burst. Combine that with competition among the lenders and it further led the problems.

You mention cooperation’s, yet fail to mention those who are multinational, and do not pay taxes, could that be a problem as the tax code allows for such?
DOD, DOJ and DHS, yet there is no indication that any of those has any real impact on business, save that the DOD is one of the largest employers, and keeps some industries and communities alive with paying a civilian work force to do tasks, that further leads to an economic stability and upturn in the local communities, the DOJ has to take the time to prosecute and investigate criminal activity, and the DHS, well who knows about that.

Ironic that while the symptoms of a bloated government are pointed out, there seems to be no mention of some of the current policies that have come out where the salaries of some of the department heads have skyrocketed up to obscene levels in the federal government, where that of the private sector doing the exact same job, is less. There is no outcry over the waste on the part of the government, shall we go back to the days where the oversight is not so diligent and the various organizations can get away with say, the 50 dollar hammer and 40 dollar screw driver?


All of the problems that are mentioned go back to the legislative body in the various levels of governments, as they do set the rules and hold the purse strings for the country. If they are corrupt, and set the rules, is it wrong that a company or a bank plays by those rules?



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 04:29 PM
link   

Originally posted by sdcigarpig
reply to post by XPLodER
 


Here again, you point out the symptom, yet fail to see the root cause of the problems.


citzens united = corperations are people and money = free speach
its a culture of corpatizm given ligitamicy by law,
to focus singularly on politicians is folly.
i understand your point about laws and regulations ALLOWING for a culture of corruption and greed,
i just beleive that when the symptoms are self evident the true perpertrators and traitors will be exposed as a matter of course


The reality is that you can not do business in the United States of America, without the approval of the county, city, state and even the federal governments. They call they shots, they set the rules and dictate how business must be done. They have done such for years, far longer, close to over 100 years.
Taking your points:


using influence and power to destroy a nation for profit is treason,
if groups like alec CAN WRITE THE LAWS IN THEIR FAVOUR and lobbie "in the pocket" politicians to pass them then the laws being followed IS NOT THE PROBLEM,
it is the new laws that legalise criminal acts and or the act of damaging a nation


1) Insider Trading: That is not only against the law, but those who are caught are subject to prosecution. However, there are a few in congress, senators and US representatives (Who have been caught and were not prosecuted)


so you admit that it is very difficult to prosicute abusive law makers?
and that in the grand scheme of things exposure of collusion with wall street criminal acts would be disasterous to politicians. ie we cant prosicute the law makers, but can show collusion with crooks for profit.
this has the effect of forcing further exposure


2) Last time I checked, all legislation requires that some one in government actually sign off on such. Playing to the constituents who donate and or vote seems to be the order of the day. Perhaps if politicians were not so worried about such, then just maybe they might be able to get something done.


the light is the best cleanser to corruption, people now understand that private corps are now writting legislation for themselves and dirty politicians are accepting favour to pass the laws.
the result is the "legal" finacial crimes you mentioned


3) Draw attention and education to how the financial crash was for profit? There is nothing in the law that says that banks have to back those who were given loans. They are entitled to hedge against said loans. That is of course federal law.

crimes include,
selling defective finacial products with prior knowledge and intent to defraud,
knowingly falsafying finacial statements of health
lying to a congressional pannel while under oath
subverting an official of the treasury
insider trading.
and many more "illegal acts"


4) So are you saying those who should not have been given credit or a loan, should not have been? Seems like that at the time, the pressure was on Washington, and the regulators to loosen up the rules to allow for those who could not afford and should not have been given loans, were pressured into doing such.


are you refering to the afordable housing act?
more ALEC written and sponcerd and paid for legislation
now you are looking at the symptom not the cause


5) State banks and all banks that run in the US have to deal with a set of rules and laws the govern them, or they can be shut down by the government.

your country is being "held hostage" by the low interest rate of the federal reserve, and the collusion to contract the money supply for everyone BUT the large institutions. if states had their own banks (responciable to the state NOT shareholders) then this crissis would resolve itself


6) Yes it was the very same government that allowed this to happen, however, in the end with all of the facts in, there are a few that was not accounted for:


continued....
xploder



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 04:42 PM
link   
reply to post by sdcigarpig
 



The facts that the best minds can come up with is that this was caused by the deregulation of the banks and easy credit. People who should not have been given loans or that easy credit. This causes inflations and ballooning of the different markets, that later started to collapse and burst. Combine that with competition among the lenders and it further led the problems.

this was the plan of the 1% from the start,
they intentionally lobbied for, wrote and paid for this legislation,
for this exact outcome,
that is treason.


You mention cooperation’s, yet fail to mention those who are multinational, and do not pay taxes, could that be a problem as the tax code allows for such?


alec again and the same bought politicians made loop holes on purpose in tax legislation
and on the "federally chartered" corperations side of the equation,
it is required for a "patsy" company backed by the "full faith and credit" of the united states citzens to be left "holding the bag"
F.D.I.C
fanney
freddy and ect


DOD, DOJ and DHS, yet there is no indication that any of those has any real impact on business, save that the DOD is one of the largest employers, and keeps some industries and communities alive with paying a civilian work force to do tasks, that further leads to an economic stability and upturn in the local communities, the DOJ has to take the time to prosecute and investigate criminal activity, and the DHS, well who knows about that.


except i know people who wont fly to0 the usa because of DHS scanners (microwave people)
i know of investors who will not invest any more in america because the DOJ have done nothing to prosicute collusion between the hedge fund managers and wall street entities.
if the the only business that is profitable is war then you shall have perminante wars ie DOD spending


Ironic that while the symptoms of a bloated government are pointed out, there seems to be no mention of some of the current policies that have come out where the salaries of some of the department heads have skyrocketed up to obscene levels in the federal government, where that of the private sector doing the exact same job, is less. There is no outcry over the waste on the part of the government, shall we go back to the days where the oversight is not so diligent and the various organizations can get away with say, the 50 dollar hammer and 40 dollar screw driver?

this behaviour was incoraged by many high up people, no names yet, to create the "illusion" that this is about class warfare, it is not about class war fare, the exeutive pay rises allow for a distraction from thr real issuies.



All of the problems that are mentioned go back to the legislative body in the various levels of governments, as they do set the rules and hold the purse strings for the country. If they are corrupt, and set the rules, is it wrong that a company or a bank plays by those rules?


are you asking me the question,
if everyone can legally harm a nation and everyones doing it then it must be ok as long as it is legal?
really?

a true american wouldnt sell toxic waste (their words) to a police retirement fund knowing that large losses would cost many the retirement they deserve?
BUT THIS IS OK BECAUSE ITS LEGAL?

wtf?????????????????

xploder

edit on 12-4-2012 by XPLodER because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 05:14 PM
link   

Originally posted by beezzer

We, as a culture, haven't reached our "breaking point" yet. To artificially promote such an action is irresponsible and doomed to failure.


I disagree, what you are seeing are the first sparks of the breaking point. Nobody ever said a "breaking point" automatically has to fully resolve, though it will if the nations leadership continues with its current trends. No doubt about it.

Political memes, fads, propaganda etc come strong but live a short life. Everything is being simplified down to a populist movement, building with a slow but relentless resolve. The general population is slowly moving away from the current government more and more, meeting resistance all the way... think of water eroding rock. That's what all this 99% stuff is about, the fact that we as a people don't have adequate representation in our government.

American's haven't reached the breaking point because America is still quite liberal when compared to other countries recently having revolutions. But remember, American's expect a higher standard of living as they have the famed "sense of entitlement". We won't be reduced to living in a shack and eating bread everyday without some serious backlash. Americans are the forefront of individual liberty merely because we are so spoiled and now because we are beginning to be oppressed.

When you start taking away peoples homes on such a scale, when you start throwing people and their family in jail/prison for everything under the sun, when you start making people dependent on government handouts, when you start selling out blue collar Americans for nations on the opposite side of the world, when you start breaking the governments law of the land... then expect hell.

These "springs" represent the bar on individual liberty being raised again, the government has to follow the will of the majority, else = chaos. Americans are not North Koreans and we don't just keep quiet and bend over about anything, from dairy creamer to police state.

We got guns and #, why do you think they are picking at trying to take them away?

Why do you think our founders wrote all that "centuries old philosophy"(*1) in our constitution and declaration of independence?

(*1) credit goes to your local obama bot for that one, guess who?
edit on 12-4-2012 by RSF77 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 06:55 PM
link   
reply to post by sdcigarpig
 



there is no greater tyranny than that which is perpetrated under teh shield of law and in the name of justice

montesquieu


congress shall make NO LAW abridging the right of the people pieceably to assemble


founding documents of a democractic republic called the unted states of america

xploder



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 11:57 PM
link   
reply to post by sdcigarpig
 


definition of treson,
putting your interest in money above all else,

Oran's Dictionary of the Law (1983) defines treason as "...[a]...citizen's actions to help a foreign government overthrow, make war against, or seriously injure the [parent nation]." In many nations, it is also often considered treason to attempt or conspire to overthrow the government, even if no foreign country is aided or involved by such an endeavour.

Outside legal spheres, the word "traitor" may also be used to describe a person who betrays (or is accused of betraying) their own political party, nation, family, friends, ethnic group, team, religion, social class, or other group to which they may belong.


en.wikipedia.org...

in this case it is high treason is attempting to go after politicians for their high crimes,
that only leaves bankers exposed,
why go after the bankers?
they have no such ligitamite legal protection.

xploder



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 12:07 PM
link   
reply to post by sdcigarpig
 


Your claims are insanity by the very definition.


Yes it was the very same government that allowed this to happen


So what are you saying?

It is the governments fault that criminals commit crimes because the government allows those crimes to happen?



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 02:55 PM
link   
reply to post by poet1b
 

The current economic mess was caused by the federal government that undid legislation that was in place since the mid 1940’s following the great depression.

Consider this:
After the Great Depression, the Glass Stegal act was passed to prevent banks from getting involved in the investment of the stock market. It forced them to remain only in the banking industry, nothing else. It also set up for heavy regulation and monitoring of the banks by the Federal government. In 1977, an act was passed to try to prevent discrimination of loans to minorities, and then there were those that thought such was a bad idea, as it laid the ground work for the subprime market of lending and the lending practices. Later on in the late 1990’s much of the regulation that guided and regulated the banks were removed. All of this courtesy of the federal government and thus the problems started and loans were given that were risky at best. What would you call where the only qualification to lend money is that the person breaths? In short the federal government removed the very protections for the people from the banks and vice versa, prevented the making of too risky loans. Combined with the banks starting to get heavily into the housing markets, a form of investing, and taking greater and greater risks, cheap credit and people not willing to save, was a combination like gas and fire, it was bound to explode and it did. So now the regulations are having to be reinstalled back into the banking industry to prevent collaspes and the credit market shrink up. It means that the opportunities that were there at the end of the 1990’s are no longer there, and with good reason, as it is apparent that the bubbles and inflation is something the country can not afford. Now did the banks do anything wrong legally, no, they did not do anything that was against the law. They have to follow the laws of the country as dictated by the federal government, and who sets the laws, why the congress of the United States of America. Want to know who the real criminals are, it is not wall street, it is those who write the laws. Wall street and the bankers follow the laws, and if they fail to follow the laws, well lets just say how is Maydoff doing these days while serving his 150 year sentence?



new topics

top topics



 
11
<< 1  2  3   >>

log in

join