reply to post by NOTurTypical
Hey not your typ
"John Mark, Peter's amanuensis. There are different times because some writers were using Jewish reckoning and some were using Roman reckoning for
the time of day..."
Not sure what you mean by 'John-Mark' - certainly there is not a trace of any hard evidence that anyone who went by the name of John-Mark was the
same person or persons who cobbled together the 2nd canonical Greek gospel - the work circulated in at least two forms (one longer, one shorter)
anonymously, and may have originally been written in poetry using the 3 or 6-line Qinah lament meter (see the book of lamentations for examples of
But it is clear that it was somehow patched together by someone 'anonymously' (all the Greek canonical Gospels originally circulated without names or
titles -and for the 2nd canonical Greek gospel, the earliest papyrus copies lack any mention of the name Mark (or even John-Mark) on their texts)
after the fall of Jerusalem c. 72 CE from various oral sayings sources, various written (Greek? Aramaic? both?) sayings sources, and some kind of
fulfilment LOGIA chart showing what alleged 'Messianic' prophecies were 'fulfilled' by 'Iesous' - also a midrashic source which took old testament
stories and phrases and worked them into 'miracles' (the 'stilling of the storm' Nature miracle is in fact a legendary-Midrash built up of the Targum
of Psalms 107:23-29 (as well as other OT verses)
“Lo, men went down to the sea in ships,
For they were doing business on the great waters;
and there they saw the deeds of YHWH
And pondered his Miracles in the Deep.
For behold, when he commanded, lo a storm wind was raised
Even a tempest which lifted up the waves of the sea.
Lo, they all began to mount up to the heavens,
then all at once, they crashed down to the depths;
Then their courage melted away in their distress :
they reeled and staggered like drunken men,
and were at their wits’ end and petrified :
Then they cried out to YHWH in their trouble,
and lo, he suddenly delivered them from their Distress;
yea, he made the Storm be still,
and the waves of the sea were suddenly hushed to a great Calm...”
We can see how 'Mark' (and also 'Matthew' and 'Luke' whoever these persons were) were lifting their images for this Nature Miracle whole cloth from
the Psalms - but we can see parallels with the Legend of Jonah &The Fish, where Jonah is asleep in the boat in the midst of the storm - Jonah was a
symbol for the earliest preaching Chrsitians, obviously.
and the 1st canonical Greek gospel ('according to Matthew' whoever he was) morrphs some Markan material which he exraced the Hebrew Scriptures
('Save, Lord, we die...")
earlier form: 'Mark' 4:35 "And during all this ho Iesous was asleep in the stern and the disciples wakee him up saying to him, Rabbi Rabbi, don't you
even care that we are all drowning? So he arose from his sleep and began to rebuke them while a strong gale blew saying to them all: “Be Muzzled !
Don't rock [the boat]!"
Matthew 8:23 (notice the deliberate softenng of the disciples/ rebuke to their Teacher) :
'As ho Iesous was sleeping, the disciples went to wake him and spoke to him saying, “Save, Lord ! We are dying !" - the 1st canonical Greek gospel
reflects an earlier Hebrew Aramaic Midrash - see the Targum of Psalms 20
YHWH gives victory to his Messiah (Gk: ho Christos)
Yea, he shall answer him from his heavenly sanctuary
with the victorious power of his right Hand
Therefore Save,O YHWH the king!
Answer us when we out call to you !
This smallish example is just to show how gospel stories and their miracles can be patched / cobbledd together 'midrashically' i.e. by expanding into
narrative form various Hebrew and Aramaic 'scriptural sources' and often turned into a didactic legend or miracle in the process.
The Passion Narrative ('crucifixion stories' ) also use Midrashic techniques when it cobbles-threads together a woven narrative stolen from older
threads of OT verses, e.g. 'suffering servant' verses & 'Daviddic/messianic' OT verses.
See the Targums of Psalms 22 & of Isaiah 53 = from which derive detailse.g.the piercing of hands/feet (Psalm 22:16b), dividing of garments & lots
(Mark 15:24 =Psalm 22:18), the “wagging heads” of the mockers (Mark 15:20=Psalm 22:7), the cry of “Eli Eli, why have you abandoned me?” (Mark
15:34 =Psalm 22:1) etc.
“He trusted in EL :Let him deliver him now if he delights in him” (Matthew 27:43 = Psalm 22:8), which includes (“for he said, ‘I am a son of
the gods’” 27:43b “ = Psalm 22:9 placed into the mouth of the Centurion in 'Luke' as 'a son of the gods')- not history
So Mark's 3,6,9, pattern is also not 'history' but liturgical ' Midrash i.e. LEGEND
edit on 7-4-2012 by Sigismundus because: stutttttttering