Navy confirms jet has crashed in Virginia Beach

reply to post by getreadyalready

Just my amateur guess, but I would guess a maintenance error. Something was left undone, or some tool was left in the plane. I used to know a lot of AF mechanics, and they laughed and cringed about how often planes would come back from training missions and still have those big red "Do Not Fly" tags attached in key areas on the plane!

So this was an accident just waiting to happen, eventually....
Scary

reply to post by snowspirit


Yep.

I worked in the automotive industry for a long time, and it was very common to find tools from the last mechanic left under the hoods or in the engines of cars the next time they stopped by for service. If there are that many still lying in there, imagine how many were left behind and fell out somewhere along the way. Many of my mechanics had previously been military men, and some of them had been Aircraft Mechanics. When they work on Aircraft, they use something similar to "Lock out / Tag out" that is used in industrial settings. They put these big lock-like things on the aircraft with a long red ribbon flowing off of it to get attention, and in this way they should not be able to forget to reattach something, or let a plane leave before it is finished, but it still happens from time to time, and more often than we realize!!

I now work in regulation of Medical Fields, and it is amazing how often doctors leave tools or sponges behind, or operate on the wrong thing! Despite tons of safety precautions, using a sharpie to mark the correct area to operate, having people in the room solely responsible for taking inventory before, during, and after a surgery, etc., etc., no matter how many precautions are taken, sometimes they still cut off the wrong leg, or leave the scissors or tweezers or sponges in the patient.

Really, in all industries, there are no such things as "accidents" it is ALWAYS human error, but what we call "accidents" are the acceptable percentage of human error that don't constitute negligence.

Originally posted by burntheships----->Another witness saw it dumping fuel.

F18 can dump fuel? I thought they were only able to drop aux tanks.

An engine failure with fuel tank penetration is not unheard of on twin engine fighters, could look like fuel dump for an untrained eye. Sometimes takes out the other engine as well

As I posted in another thread, I just found the date really bizarre. One year ago, today, another F-18 crashed in Lemoore, CA, killing the 2 inside I believe. A bad day to fly?? What are the odds!

F-18 Crashes 4/6/11


That being said, I grew up directly under the flight path of NAS Oceana in VB. Moved to Oceana Gardens (about a mile from this current crash) when I was 3 in 1980 and lived there until 2003. We would see the F-14's go over so close you could practically ask the pilots a question. Some days were so bad it was impossible to be outside and I still have hearing issues and Auditory Sensory problems from it. I do recall a crash in the early 80's where a pilot ejected..his plane smashed into Oceana Blvd, not a quarter mile from our front yard and killed a pregnant woman driving. Very sad. With how low they fly and the frequency of their training, I am actually a little surprised this does not happen more often!

Now I live in San Diego and we had a bad incident a few years ago where a pilot ejected and crashed into a home, killing a woman, her mother, infant, and toddler. It was awful. The father was left without his entire family; he was at work at the time. In that case, the pilot was questioned by the public as to why he did not just turn back to the ocean to ditch and instead headed inland. Who knows the real story..

EDIT: Here is the info from the VB crash of 1986..apparently the pilots did die in this one, along with the woman and unborn (although the pregnancy was not mentioned in this article but can be found in latter articles):

Crash

Originally posted by Ivar_Karlsen
with fuel tank penetration is not unheard of on twin engine fighters, could look like fuel dump for an untrained eye.

Possible...and good point.
Still not much on the news about that aspect of the story.

reply to post by bastet11

Now I live in San Diego and we had a bad incident a few years ago where a pilot ejected and crashed into a home, killing a woman, her mother, infant, and toddler. It was awful. The father was left without his entire family; he was at work at the time. In that case, he was questioned publically as to why he did not just turn back to the ocean to ditch and instead headed inland. Who knows the real story..

That story still haunts me, and the day I read that story has been a significant day in my life for many, many reasons, and I talk about it often. My son was struggling for his infant life at the time, there had been some tragic massacre in Africa, and I was reading a lot on ATS, and my faith and religion were faltering fast, and the night of that crash I went to our Masons Lodge at midnight, and I knelt in front of the altar in the dark room, and I prayed blasphemously, and I got some candid responses, as well as a good fright! It all worked out in the end, and I am closer to God than ever before, but the story of that crash still haunts me. The man got up, kissed his mother and wife and kids and went to work, and not long after they were all dead. Everyone he loved in life was in that home and all wiped out in one fatal moment.

reply to post by bastet11


I like to make the comparison to being able to reach your hand up and touch the planes. They really do fly so close but I guess we get used to it.

Originally posted by HIWATT

Another witness, Zack Zapatero, said the plane crashed into a building occupied by senior citizens. He took photographs of the crash scene. "There's these large fire balls coming up," Zapatero said. "I was told there was a bunch of senior citizens that live in that building, which worries me a lot. "Buildings were starting to collapse," he said of the wreckage scene.

Yeah, you're so "worried" about the senior citizens that instead of possibly trying to help some of them who may have been injured, you stand there filming with your cell phone.

WTH is wrong with people these days? Nobody cares about anything but themselves anymore. This guy probably didn't even realize he was making himself out to be a totally callous GOOF by "reporting and filming" instead of actually trying to help

I hope no one was seriously hurt....

edit on 6-4-2012 by HIWATT because: spellin'

I agree with what your saying and I disagree. yes more people should be helping but, most are not trained to help. There are many people that sue people that help, even when trained. As an x-volunteer emt/fd I have seen a few people try to sue us for what we did to help out and we were trained. (kicking in doors , using the jaws of life on the car, and other things) Then you have the yahoo's who think since they see something on tv they can do it, and make matters worse.

I used to think it should be mandatory for people to do at least a year or two volunteering for emt/fd that way all adults are trained to help one way or another. But that bring up a bunch of other stuff like the right not to learn and stuff like that. I agree people these days care more about themselves and pretending to care for others when all they want is the money shot.

There was a school nearby.
If it was a holiday down there, that would have been a good thing, the pilot may have been able to direct himself into an empty school.

I was surprised to hear that Good Friday isn`t a holiday in the USA...

Since it`s not a holiday, it`s very lucky the plane didn`t end up there. It sounded like it easily could have, if it hadn`t made a slight turn

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by bastet11

 

Now I live in San Diego and we had a bad incident a few years ago where a pilot ejected and crashed into a home, killing a woman, her mother, infant, and toddler. It was awful. The father was left without his entire family; he was at work at the time. In that case, he was questioned publically as to why he did not just turn back to the ocean to ditch and instead headed inland. Who knows the real story..

That story still haunts me, and the day I read that story has been a significant day in my life for many, many reasons, and I talk about it often. My son was struggling for his infant life at the time, there had been some tragic massacre in Africa, and I was reading a lot on ATS, and my faith and religion were faltering fast, and the night of that crash I went to our Masons Lodge at midnight, and I knelt in front of the altar in the dark room, and I prayed blasphemously, and I got some candid responses, as well as a good fright! It all worked out in the end, and I am closer to God than ever before, but the story of that crash still haunts me. The man got up, kissed his mother and wife and kids and went to work, and not long after they were all dead. Everyone he loved in life was in that home and all wiped out in one fatal moment.

I feel you! I remember nights searching online for info about the family..it was a small obsession at the time and still haunts me. I don't even know how they man survived all that himself, losing everyone he loved in one awful moment.

reply to post by snowspirit


Yes it is just a few blocks from a school. Not sure the name now, but it was Seatack when I attended it from grades K-6.
Spoke to my aunt and cousin who live off Virginia Beach Blvd. My aunt drives a bus for the VB school system and her boyfriend works maintenance. They said it is their first day of Spring Break so they were all at home at the time.
I believe Mayfair Mews may be an adult or older folk's home if I remember correctly. I read they closed down the 264 all the way to Rosemont!!

reply to post by TheBloodRed


I remember looking up and seeing the details of the pilot! Just over the treetops! Whoowhee that was close!

Live Coverage - www.wavy.com...

BlogTV Simulcast - www.blogtv.com...

reply to post by getreadyalready


Speaking of finding things left behind...

We also got a call one night after a plane returned from a flight for us to go check the runway for a headless deer. Deer casualties happen a few times a year. This particular case, when the plane returned to the flight line, the head of a deer was wedged into the landing gear. Apparently, the plane hit the deer on take off and some how lifted the deer and when the pilot closed the landing gear it decapitated it dropping the rest in the nearby woods.

Originally posted by burntheships
reply to post by snowspirit

 

What is strange is that none of the media video is talking about the fact that
witnessess saw the plane in flames before it crashed.

You would think that would be a very important detail,
maybe one they want to play down?

I'm currently in Joint Base Langley/FT. Eustis. We are not very far from VA Beach. When you see stories like this you should keep im mind that maintenance mishaps account for the vast majority of aviation incidents. How do I know? I'm in aviation for the US Army. I'm training at FT. Eustis on the Blackhawk helicopter, I am in the maintenance area of aviation. There are tons of things that can cause a fire and internal damage to the plane. Something we call FOD. Foreign objects in engine compartments, rotors, hydraulic pumps, and electrical systems can and will cause serious damage. Sometimes it results in catastrophic incidents like this.

There are constant training flights all around Virginia. To have something like this happen is only a matter of probability over time and frequency

Originally posted by snowspirit
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

Just my amateur guess, but I would guess a maintenance error. Something was left undone, or some tool was left in the plane. I used to know a lot of AF mechanics, and they laughed and cringed about how often planes would come back from training missions and still have those big red "Do Not Fly" tags attached in key areas on the plane!

So this was an accident just waiting to happen, eventually....
Scary

Some of the conclusions you've drawn up in this thread are just outright crazy. Did you ever once entertain the thought that since it crashed shortly after takeoff, that it may have sucked a bird into the engine?

Originally posted by Skewed
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

Speaking of finding things left behind...

We also got a call one night after a plane returned from a flight for us to go check the runway for a headless deer. Deer casualties happen a few times a year. This particular case, when the plane returned to the flight line, the head of a deer was wedged into the landing gear. Apparently, the plane hit the deer on take off and some how lifted the deer and when the pilot closed the landing gear it decapitated it dropping the rest in the nearby woods.

edit on 6-4-2012 by Skewed because: (no reason given)

Ouch! That could have gone so much worse! Maybe not for the deer, but definitely for the plane. They're lucky to have taken off, lucky to have gotten the gear retracted, and lucky to have gotten the gear back out again!

Working on cars we got the occasional stinker, where someone would have a weird noise, or a weird smell, and we would find a cat wrapped around an exhaust pipe and half-cooked, half-rotted, or we would find a opossum in a fan shroud or something, but in a car those things are not devastating. On takeoff in a plane, those things can be extremely devastating!

navy training exercise over highly populated area?

crashes into apt/condo complex?

destroys multiple 'homes'?

hope no one was hurt/killed - lucky if so! (?)



and we label other countries 3rd world

Originally posted by burntheships
Oh wow....

Witnesses saw flames shooting from the plane before it hit, so it was coming
down as it was in distress!

“There was flames coming off the back … The plane got lower and lower
and just as I turned … it crashed. " usnews.msnbc.msn.com...

"He was smoking really bad. Bad smoke was coming out of the engine.

It kind of backfired a couple times. I heard two pops … then 15 seconds later I heard the explosion."
Gonzalez said the other jets then started circling around the crash site.

Amy Miller told The Virginian-Pilot she was outside the cleaners where she works

when she saw a plane coming down with fire on its wing.

edit on 6-4-2012 by burntheships because: (no reason given)

My prayers for those involved.

Originally posted by TheBloodRed
Both local Naval(Oceana, the one involved in the story) and Air Force(Langley, based in Hampton) are very near and surrounded by residential zones. Aircraft from both bases can be seen very often doing exercises or whatnot.

Back in community college teachers would have to pause and repeat because of flights from Langley flying directly overhead and causing so much noise.Then again the school isn't that far from Langley to begin with.

Maybe they are close to residential areas so they can call in reserves in case of a real emergency that way they can get there faster ?

Would be pointless to need help and be so far from where your support lives.