Jesus is Yahweh

reply to post by icepack


All questions I have no answers to. Which is why I'm an Agnostic Theist and not a Christian...

Matthew 24:35–37 35
“a Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away. 36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. 37 “For 1the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.

Im confused. The Son is the Father yet the Son doesnt know only the Father does?

reply to post by vaelamin


This is why one must be careful in calling Jesus the same as the Father. They're not the same. Biblically, both Yahweh and part of the godhead, but not the same. There does seem to be a chain of command, so to say, and everything originates from the Father.

Originally posted by vaelamin

Matthew 24:35–37 35
“a Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away. 36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. 37 “For 1the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.

Im confused. The Son is the Father yet the Son doesnt know only the Father does?

Its only confusing if you assume Jesus said something he did not...

A God can not be God if he has his own God... Jesus prayed to his own God.... And denied being God... Its not confusing if one reads what it says instead of listening to what others teach you...

Perhaps he was a lesser God... but not the one true God.

I feel the need to post this again as an explanation of God and the Trinity of God, Jesus, Holy Spirit.

Look at it from the aspect of Body, Soul & Spirit. They are inclusive of each other, but separate.

AN IMPORTANT QUESTION: IS MANKIND REALLY TRIUNE, WITH THE SPIRIT, SOUL, AND BODY CREATED BY GOD AS SEPARATE ENTITIES?

God's creation of man as stated in Genesis is somewhat indeterminate as to his creation with three separate entities. "Then the LORD formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being (soul)." (Genesis 2:7 NASB). The phrase: "the LORD formed man of dust from the ground," seems clearly to refer to the Lord's creation of the fleshly "body" of man. Concerning the phrase: "and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life," there is general agreement that the description refers to the LORD's granting of a personal "spirit" to man. "Body" and "spirit" seem to be identifiable as separate entities. But the phrase: "and man became a living soul," seems to make the "soul" a sort of merger or combination of "body" and "spirit," not necessarily a sparate entity. Also, since the Hebrew word for "soul" is nephesh, meaning "breath," it is thought by some that the "soul" is similar to, or even identical to, the "spirit" which is translated from the Hebrew word "ruach" which means "wind."

Indeed, the "soul," being invisible to the senses of the fleshly "body," must certainly exist in the "spiritual" realm along with the personal "spirit" of man. What then is the "soul," a part of the "body," a part of the "spirit," a part of the combined "body and "spitit," or an entity of it's own? This writer recommends the answer: "an entity of it's own." By the facts that the "soul," by inspiration, is given a name, "soul," different from either "spirit" or "body," that it is treated in 1 Thessalonians 5:23 and Hebrews 4:12 as though it is a separate entity, and that it is given functions in man that are done by the "soul" alone, then it is a separate entity. I believe man is truly a triune being in the image of his Creator. That the "soul" is related to the "body" in earthly life is certainly true for the "soul" is responsible for controlling the "body." That the "soul" of man may be related to the personal "spirit" of man as being of the same spiritual essense would not prevent God from forming the soul to function as a separate entity.

faithhopelove.net...

I hope this helps to explain why Jesus is God. Yahweh is God. Jesus is Yahweh.

reply to post by Deetermined


Not really... There is no Triune God...

And if there is... that Triune God is not the ONE true God

Mark 12:29
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is ONE Lord:

The trinity was added 300+ years later... Jesus didn't teach it... nor did his appostles

reply to post by Akragon


Hey Akragon... Check out my latest post... I don't want to derail this one, but there is actually some pretty good evidence that the Jewish Yahweh was at the very least a binitary Godhead. www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by Akragon


Here's what I don't understand, Akragon.

If you know so much about the Bible, how come you don't see that it explicitly tells the story of how the Jews rejected Jesus and what would happen to them until they recognize Jesus as their Savior? The Bible is one long story talking about them not understanding the exact same thing you're not understanding. So, I guess we have to wait for Jesus to reveal himself to the Jews before the rest of you unbelievers get it. Because if you believe the Bible, then you know it's going to happen, because it's right there in the word for everyone to read! I guess this confusion must all be part of the "veil" that blinds people as outlined in the Bible as well.

Originally posted by wearewatchingyouman
reply to post by Akragon

 

Hey Akragon... Check out my latest post... I don't want to derail this one, but there is actually some pretty good evidence that the Jewish Yahweh was at the very least a binitary Godhead. www.abovetopsecret.com...

Im more inclined to believe this Yahweh was a false God... Along with several others discribed within the pages of said Book...

Jesus spoke about ONE true God, His father... which had few similarities to the OT God

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Akragon

 

Here's what I don't understand, Akragon.

If you know so much about the Bible, how come you don't see that it explicitly tells the story of how the Jews rejected Jesus and what would happen to them until they recognize Jesus as their Savior? The Bible is one long story talking about them not understanding the exact same thing you're not understanding. So, I guess we have to wait for Jesus to reveal himself to the Jews before the rest of you unbelievers get it. Because if you believe the Bible, then you know it's going to happen, because it's right there in the word for everyone to read! I guess this confusion must all be part of the "veil" that blinds people as outlined in the Bible as well.

Its not an issue of not understanding my friend.... everything is there for you to read... Jesus was clearly NOT God... He calls himself the son of God many times... but not once does he say i am God...

He said "before abraham was I AM" this means he comes from the same essence that God is... In all of what we can read about him... he always discribes two seperate entities... The father is always greater then the son... He says "i am going to my God and your God"... Theres much evidence that he was the son of God...

Unfortunatly there is nothing that says he is God that came from his mouth...

Since this is a fact... IF you claim he is God... that makes him a liar by omition... meaning he left it out of his teachings for some reason...

SO

IF Jesus was God as you christians claim.... your God is a liar... And only because christians assume he said something he did not...

I don't care either way honestly.... I know the true God... And i know him because of his son.... who was Not God in the flesh

reply to post by Akragon


Be so inclined......Peace.

reply to post by Akragon


It sounds like you might be able to gain a little more understanding from this thread too.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Akragon

 

It sounds like you might be able to gain a little more understanding from this thread too.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

You might notice i've already said my piece in that thread on the first page...

And this isn't the only Jesus is God thread on this forum... its a futile arguement...

IF you listen to people tell you what it says in the bible... its easy to get confused on the issue... On the other hand if you read what HE said... its very clear

There is ONE true God... And Jesus is only a part of HIM... Not HIM in the flesh

Like wearewatchingyouman stated, there is a chain of command that exists.
God the Father is greater than/equal to Jesus Christ, in mathematical terms.
They are two different beings, but are one in the same; Father manifests Himself in the flesh through Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ was the body and soul, but the spirit is God. Jesus's soul was configured differently from others, thus allowing God to "take over." The Spirit of God lived in and spoke through Jesus Christ. Only Jesus was worthy enough to open the scrolls with the seals. He is depicted as a slain Lamb, a gentle animal, with the seven horns (omnipotence) and eyes (omniscience) of God. That is why Jesus is to be revered and worshiped, and that is where Lucifer's jealousy of Christ comes from; Lucifer's pride in his beauty and intelligence thought that he himself should be worshiped, instead of Christ. Satan was jealous that Christ was given information that no one else was worthy to receive.

My question, however, pertains to Enoch. In heaven, did Enoch see the Father's face? Or Jesus's?

reply to post by DelayedChristmas

God the Father is greater than/equal to Jesus Christ,

That is all i needed to read... this statement invalidates your math my friend...

Jesus did not once claim he was equal to God... that came from Paul...

reply to post by Akragon


The bottom line is, whether you believe they are one or separate, the Bible clearly states that the ONLY way to the Father is through Jesus. Without acknowledging that Jesus died for our sins, so that we may be saved, the rest is pointless.

Lonewolf is merely pointing out that the Jews were told over and over again who Jesus would be, who he was and why, yet they didn't listen.

reply to post by Akragon


John 10: 22-39 NIV
22 Then came the Festival of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was in the temple courts walking in Solomon’s Colonnade. 24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”

25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[c]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[d]? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” 39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.

reply to post by Akragon


Just out of curiousity: While it's true Jesus never claimed to be God specifically he never denied it, and then there is John 10:28, 29-

Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!" Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

How do you interpret this verse?

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Akragon

 

The bottom line is, whether you believe they are one or separate, the Bible clearly states that the ONLY way to the Father is through Jesus. Without acknowledging that Jesus died for our sins, so that we may be saved, the rest is pointless.

Lonewolf is merely pointing out that the Jews were told over and over again who Jesus would be, who he was and why, yet they didn't listen.

Again, one comes to a different understanding of him depending on what you read... Christians tend to focus on his death as a redemption for sin... I focus on his life as redemption for sin... He shows us how to live without sin... And that regardless of how hard we strive we can not be perfect unless we follow his perfect example... Perfection is only attainable by following his life... NOT his death... his death was necessary to show his followers that life EXISTS after the death of the body... It was Gods will... NOT HIS...

IF his death was Gods will and not his own... HE could NOT have been God... Like i said... the arguement is futile unless you listen to what others tell you about him... Others being preachers AND... other authors of the books in the bible.

reply to post by Akragon


So, Akragon, why do we see so much turmoil going on in Israel? Why do we continually see the Jews being persecuted? Do you think it's because none of them follow the way of life that Jesus taught? We can probably say that about most nations. Why is Israel the one that everyone is turning it's back on? Could it be because it is written in the Bible? If that's the case, why did God choose them to the ones to set the example by? The Bible says that the persecution of the Jews is because they turned their back on Jesus. What does that mean to you?

Edit to Add: Do you think the persecution is only because the Jews didn't stop the Romans from killing Jesus? Why didn't God pick the Romans to be the persecuted ones?