The Bible Isn't Stupid, We Are

Originally posted by netgamer7k
The OT and NT are the most common ancient texts throughout the world, no one can deny that. To claim it has been changed through the centuries is simply false, because we would be able to identify where and when it was changed due to the massive number of copies.

Just last week I watched a documentary (I think it was called, Riddles of the Bible, I THINK) that showed ancient bibles where the oldest didn't have this part, but the next oldest did have that part. At one point two different christian bibles were being manufactured at the same time for two different parts of the world. I know that at one time God's wife (Ashira?) was in the bible, but because more and more people were worshipping her instead of god, she was deleted.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by netgamer7k
The OT and NT are the most common ancient texts throughout the world, no one can deny that. To claim it has been changed through the centuries is simply false, because we would be able to identify where and when it was changed due to the massive number of copies.

Just last week I watched a documentary (I think it was called, Riddles of the Bible, I THINK) that showed ancient bibles where the oldest didn't have this part, but the next oldest did have that part. At one point two different christian bibles were being manufactured at the same time for two different parts of the world. I know that at one time God's wife (Ashira?) was in the bible, but because more and more people were worshipping her instead of god, she was deleted.

Freakin' awesome, dude.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Shierah

 

"And the pig, because it parts the hoof and is cloven-footed but does not chew the cud, is unclean to you. You shall not eat any of their flesh, and you shall not touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you. "
Leviticus 11:7-8

You do know that does not apply to Christians right?

*sighs*
Larger quote: "The LORD said to Moses and Aaron, 2 “Say to the Israelites: ‘Of all the animals that live on land, these are the ones you may eat: 3 You may eat any animal that has a divided hoof and that chews the cud.
4 “‘There are some that only chew the cud or only have a divided hoof, but you must not eat them. The camel, though it chews the cud, does not have a divided hoof; it is ceremonially unclean for you. 5 The hyrax, though it chews the cud, does not have a divided hoof; it is unclean for you. 6 The rabbit, though it chews the cud, does not have a divided hoof; it is unclean for you. 7 And the pig, though it has a divided hoof, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. 8 You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you."

now, once again, even though I've already said this:
"Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 'The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.' (Matthew 23:1-3)"
And here is more:
"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)"
"Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God." (2 Peter 20-21 NAB)
"If you love Me, keep My commandments."-John 14:15 (his commandments meaning, Gods commandments according to Christianity, since they say Jesus is God)

Every law in the bible is supposed to apply to Christians -_- Jesus was Jewish. Jesus preached that the Laws of Moses were final. Period. He said this repeatedly.
So Christians who say that the Old Testament doesn't apply to the are contradicting Jesus and half of the bible. I'm not saying that either position on the matter is right, I'm just saying that both positions are justifyable.
If we go further into this conversation its just going to get messy with my opinions, your opinions, everyones opinions which in the end won't mean anything. Again, I think this is probably the whole point of Jesus dying on the cross for peoples sins- because it would be impossible for us to avoid all sin and to agree about what to avoid and what not to.
i.e. Don't judge someone who believes in the Old Testament, don't judge someone who doesn't think the Old Testament applies to them. That was my only point- I can understand why someone would, and also why someone wouldn't (Like our days of mass genocide-the canaanites and sodom-, killing our sons for God, and stoning kids for being disobedient are over) I don't care either way about what you believe I love all of you guys!

reply to post by Starchild23


The bible is a book put together by a Roman empire.. If you want to put your faith in it fair enough.. It is a book that was used to control people. People in the past were not even allowed to read the bible. To be caught with the bible was punishable by death..

reply to post by Shierah

*sighs*
Larger quote: "The LORD said to Moses and Aaron, 2 “Say to the Israelites: ‘Of all the animals that live on land, these are the ones you may eat: 3 You may eat any animal that has a divided hoof and that chews the cud.
4 “‘There are some that only chew the cud or only have a divided hoof, but you must not eat them. The camel, though it chews the cud, does not have a divided hoof; it is ceremonially unclean for you. 5 The hyrax, though it chews the cud, does not have a divided hoof; it is unclean for you. 6 The rabbit, though it chews the cud, does not have a divided hoof; it is unclean for you. 7 And the pig, though it has a divided hoof, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. 8 You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you."

Don't get frustrated, its quite alright if you don't understand...

Its not what goes into your mouth that defiles you... but what comes out...

Every law in the bible is supposed to apply to Christians -_- Jesus was Jewish. Jesus preached that the Laws of Moses were final. Period. He said this repeatedly.
So Christians who say that the Old Testament doesn't apply to the are contradicting Jesus and half of the bible. I'm not saying that either position on the matter is right, I'm just saying that both positions are justifyable.

I disagree... not all laws in the bible apply...

The two Jesus gave apply... which are the law in totality...

He went against Jewish laws.... so only position is correct. Of course that depends on if you're jewish or christian...

The Bible is a book of rape, torture, lies, mythology, and metaphors. It's one of the most depraved tales written by our species and it's astonishing some (ok, many morons) follow it.

Originally posted by thegagefather

Originally posted by Shierah
Matthew 23:1-3 "Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 'The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach."

Jesus says many times that the laws of the patriarchs should be followed :/ I'll find more quotes where it says that in the bible if you want them. So its not a question of Jewish or Christian. Jesus intended for "Christians" (not that he intended at the time for some people to all get together and decide what to tell other people about him that may or may not be true) to follow the "Jewish" laws as well. His teachings were "love and do not judge, and I will not judge you" not "do whatever you want and I will not judge you."
However there is the second part, about practicing what you preach, and I believe that Christ (whom you "christians" claim to follow) also said many times, under no uncertain circumstances, "Judge not, that ye be not judged." (Matthew 7:1)
So lets quit using Jesus to hate one another. Thanks "And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every
tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat."Genesis 2:16
> "Why do you call me Lord & don't do what I say" Luke 6:46 Why? God willed it that way!
> "Whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." Re 22:17
>"Therefore, cheer up your hearts, and remember that ye are free to act for yourselves?-to choose the way of everlasting death or the way of eternal life." Nephi 10:23
>"And now remember, remember, my brethren, that whosoever perisheth, perisheth unto himself; and whosoever doeth iniquity, doeth it unto himself; for behold, ye are free; ye are permitted to act for yourselves; for behold, God hath given unto you a knowledge and he hath made you free." Helaman 14:30
>"..at the entrance of the tent of meeting, he should present it of his own FREE WILL before Jehovah [ god`s name]" Leviticus 1:3

O.o misquoting much????
Genesis 2:16>"And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every
tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat..." (next verse)"...But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
Luke 6:46> "Why do you call me Lord & don't do what I say..." (next 3 verses) "Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great."

Originally posted by thegagefather
"Meaning no one can tell you what God's will is."[ Quote by King Nebuchanezzar referring to God`s power, after regaining his sanity] "And all the inhabitants of the earth are being considered as merely nothing, and he is doing according to his own WILL among the army of the heavens and the inhabitants of the earth. And there exists no one that can check his hand, or that can say to him, 'What have you been doing?' " Daniel 4:35

Meaning no one can tell you what God's will is.

Have you noticed that this is a quote from the bible? Which is supposedly written by prophets who can speak to God? Sorry that it probably seems cynical when read, I'm not trying to hate on your beliefs or anything, but misquoting is not the way to go when trying to prove something.
But anyways, the point you were trying to prove, I believe anyways. I wasn't saying I believe anything in the Bible at all, I was just talking from an objective theological perspective.

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


How do you see a collection of historical records as being contradictory? It only becomes contradictory with the MEANING you attach to it. If you read a passage that describes 'God' in a favourable light, then flip the page and he turns sadistic, that's not a contradiction. It simply means this god is an a$$h@le. Follow?

Jesus was a gifted and enlightened spiritual teacher. Take it for what it's worth.

reply to post by purplemer


Even yoday, the NWO can arrest you if you have a Bible in your house. They try to destroy everything that have to do with the Bible. Look at the Constitutional laws: they are based on the Bible, and now overrriden by the new laws of the NWO. And by the way, the Bible existed long time ago before the Romans. There is a code in it so complex that it is not from a human hand (and i'm normally Atheist).

reply to post by SeventhSeal


Have you noticed in the Bible that everything that had to do with violence was punished by YHWH?
When Cain killed Abel, he was punished by God. The Bible should not be taken literally but with understanding of its message of peace.
And the ''morons'' that truly follow the Bible are the most peaceful people on Earth.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by netgamer7k

 

It has zero contradictions, and if you find contradictions you don't get what you're reading.

IF i were you i would reconsider this statement...

IF you can't find contradictions, you're not looking hard enough...

Don't have to look hard at all.

The commandment: 'Thou shalt not kill.' Then, man brutally murdered the son of god, and we are rewarded?

Love thy neighbor, but if he's gay, kill him.

God's enemy, Satan, attacks sinners that are already bound for hell instead of trying to capture the righteous that are bound for heaven. Not much of an enemy there, eh?

Heaven is paradise, but when Satan was in heaven he went to war against god. Imagine going to heaven only to be caught in the middle of a war? If Satan could rebel, why couldn't other angels be just as unsatisfied with heaven? Maybe paradise has a different meaning for some.

God is all-knowing. But, when he tested Abraham to see if he would sacrifice his son, god said, "Now I know that you fear me," meaning god DIDN'T know this.

God is all-loving, but as in the above statement, he also wants us to fear him. Don't know about any of you, but love and fear don't mix well in my book.

God is merciful, yet he didn't show much mercy when he not only drowned every human, but decided to kill all the animals too.

God is merciful, yet killed all of the firstborn of Egypt when they had absolutely nothing to do with the pharoah ordering the deaths of all firstborn jews.

Jesus called Peter the rock upon which his church would be built, yet that rock denied three times even knowing him. At one point Jesus said to Peter, "Get thee behind me, Satan." That's not a rock in my book.

Many many more, but I'm tired.

I can speak from personal experience. I used to look at The Holy Bible as something of awe that I only encountered at church and then put away for a week until the next Sunday. However, about 5 years ago I started actually reading The Holy Bible in my free time. I started realizing that the messages were not very hard to comprehend at all...almost like God was interpreting them directly in my mind.

And then it hit me...The Bible is a living document. That means 1000 people can read it, and 1000 people can take a slightly diffferent message from each lesson contained within. Its remarkable to compare the different messages people get from The Bible. It turns out that the different messages people gather are actually rather similar. The only differences being the circumstances in their lives that they are applying the lessons.

I have read certain pieces of scripture countless times and, to my astonishment, I can pull different lessons from the some piece of scripture...all depending on my current situation in life. The same EXACT words, yet different but equally correct and appliable interpretations.

God is truly amazing. He can use the same words without changing a single thing and yet give me two distinct messages that will influence my life at the present time.

The only time I start failing in life is when I am not reading the easily applied instructions that God has for me. Lets be clear, Jesus said there are two commandments: Have no other God's but God and Love your neighbor as yourself. If you just start with that foundation, wouldn't your life be so much easier? Mine is.

reply to post by NaptownBrown


I totally agree with you, mate. I'm not a Christian, nor do i agree on everything that fanaticals Christians says, but i do know one thing: the Bible and any other religious books from all over the world are not books of power or anything like that, but books that give us a purpose in life, guidance, the feeling that our life is not in vain. What now, in science, give us this. Science tells us that we are only atoms, and not at as much important than a bacteria. Result: people think that life is unmeaninful.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Shierah

 

*sighs*
Larger quote: "The LORD said to Moses and Aaron, 2 “Say to the Israelites: ‘Of all the animals that live on land, these are the ones you may eat: 3 You may eat any animal that has a divided hoof and that chews the cud.
4 “‘There are some that only chew the cud or only have a divided hoof, but you must not eat them. The camel, though it chews the cud, does not have a divided hoof; it is ceremonially unclean for you. 5 The hyrax, though it chews the cud, does not have a divided hoof; it is unclean for you. 6 The rabbit, though it chews the cud, does not have a divided hoof; it is unclean for you. 7 And the pig, though it has a divided hoof, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. 8 You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you."

Don't get frustrated, its quite alright if you don't understand...

Its not what goes into your mouth that defiles you... but what comes out...

Every law in the bible is supposed to apply to Christians -_- Jesus was Jewish. Jesus preached that the Laws of Moses were final. Period. He said this repeatedly.
So Christians who say that the Old Testament doesn't apply to the are contradicting Jesus and half of the bible. I'm not saying that either position on the matter is right, I'm just saying that both positions are justifyable.

I disagree... not all laws in the bible apply...

The two Jesus gave apply... which are the law in totality...

He went against Jewish laws.... so only position is correct. Of course that depends on if you're jewish or christian...

edit on 6-4-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

I'm not Jewish or Christian!
I just study the bible. I don't have a position at all. I was just presenting the evidence for the one person who everyone said didn't have any.
And yes, Jesus did go against Jewish laws...sort of. I think that mostly Jesus just went against Jewish dogma, rules that the Jewish church made (If church is a good word), rather than the laws of God (i.e. ten commandment type stuff). Although I might be wrong, if you have any examples give them to me. But basically it wasn't that Jesus didn't like the Jewish law...he didn't like the people who were pushing it. Pretty much like Gandhis view on Christians (I like your christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.)
As I think you said, either position could be supported by scripture, in very polar ways, so it is just a matter of position. The Bible is extremely contradictory in everything pretty much. (Do not murder, yet murder those who break my other laws as punishment). Jesus told the Jews that he still wanted them to honor the laws of Moses, yet he tried to stop them from stoning a woman when it was clear from the instructions of the Old Testament that he shouldn't have. And there are other examples of times that he's went against the Old Testament...
That said, I don't know why Christians still include the Old Testament in the Bible, if it doesn't count for anything anymore. Honestly, Marcionism sounds like the only way that I could believe the Bible, if I did. So now I'm talking about my personal beliefs which I was trying not to until now sorry about that.

reply to post by jiggerj


The sheer ignorance of your statements shows me ( and anybody else reading your post) that you have very little knowledge of The Holy Bible or God other than what you have gathered through popular culture.

I'll go easy on you and start with one of you comments:

Where is it commanded to kill gays??? Homosexuality is comdemned, but its never instructed to kill gays. Rather, we should love gay people because we are all sinners and all sin is equal....Thats why Jesus came to be the atoning sacrifice for ALL sin. Taking the Lord's name in vain is a sin too. I am guilty.

Jesus said to love my neighbor as myself. If my neighbor is gay, I will treat him exactly the same as I would like to be treated. Those are the TRUE words of Jesus.

So you saw a few people (on TV no doubt) who claim to be 'Christians' saying that gays should be killed and you just assumed that came from The Bible. eeee WRONG!

Don't be fooled by people who call themselves Christian....Jesus was not on this Earth to promote religion, but rather to condemn it. Religion is the laws of man, The word of Jesus contains the laws of God. Read a Bible before responding back please.

Originally posted by starheart
reply to post by NaptownBrown

 

I totally agree with you, mate. I'm not a Christian, nor do i agree on everything that fanaticals Christians says, but i do know one thing: the Bible and any other religious books from all over the world are not books of power or anything like that, but books that give us a purpose in life, guidance, the feeling that our life is not in vain. What now, in science, give us this. Science tells us that we are only atoms, and not at as much important than a bacteria. Result: people think that life is unmeaninful.

Science is a tool, nothing more. How is life not meaningful knowing that everything is atoms? Have you ever looked at the beauty of nature? How is knowing you're a part of that beauty not meaningful?

Shame on anyone who needs only a book to find meaning, when it's all there in front of your face.

reply to post by chr0naut


What you call 'miraculous', I call 'examples of advanced physics used by technologically advanced alien beings.'

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope

Science is a tool, nothing more. How is life not meaningful knowing that everything is atoms? Have you ever looked at the beauty of nature? How is knowing you're a part of that beauty not meaningful?

Shame on anyone who needs only a book to find meaning, when it's all there in front of your face.

Jesus said, "Know what is in front of your face, and what is hidden from you will be disclosed to you. For there is nothing hidden that won't be revealed." -from the Gospel of Thomas

reply to post by Shierah

I just study the bible. I don't have a position at all. I was just presenting the evidence for the one person who everyone said didn't have any.
And yes, Jesus did go against Jewish laws...sort of. I think that mostly Jesus just went against Jewish dogma, rules that the Jewish church made (If church is a good word), rather than the laws of God (i.e. ten commandment type stuff). Although I might be wrong, if you have any examples give them to me.

Its good that you don't accept everything that you read... its better to study the bible for yourself to find truth... don't let others tell you what it says...

Jesus gave two laws... And the first ten are subject to his two.... The levitical laws were abolished by his ministry... They were laws given by men... not by God.

Heres my thread on the subject... www.abovetopsecret.com...

IF you've read the words of Jesus... and understand them... read through the levitical laws and see for yourself... many laws do not comply with what Jesus taught.... some are obviously still valid such as beastiality

This is the passage for what i said earlier....

15Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.

16And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?

17Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?

18But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

19For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

20These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.



What other examples do you want?

reply to post by Shierah


You are 100% correct about how Jesus spoke out against the Jewish hieracrchy...mainly because Jesus, being an equal part of God, knew that His own people had distorted his messages and inserted their own rules. That EXACT same thing is happening today...specifically with the Catholic church (but not exclusively). They create rules contrary to Biblical teaching or without Biblical support.

Ghandi was right, the people who we need to watch out for are the ones who call themselves Christian. Christians subscribe to a man made set of rules.

I am a Disciple of Jesus Christ. I am not perfect. I am very imperfect actually. My life in many ways does not reflect what Jesus wants from me. But I love him dearly because His love for me is so great. Almightly God is not dwelling on my shortcomings, rather, He wants me to forget about my shortcomings so that I can come into the abundance he has prepared for me.

I am a Disciple of Jesus Christ because I only accept His words as infallible truth. NOT the churchs words, but His divine words. And you know what? There are so many blessings coming to me sometimes that I am overwhemled by His love for me. I do not deserve all of His blessings, but that is the grace of God.

Jesus came to fulfill the Old Testament prophecy. We no longer live by the laws of the OT because Jesus has came. We simply include the OT in The Bible so that we can show ourselves the proof of Jesus being the Messiah. We can still apply the lessons of the OT, but when it comes to the laws of God. They are simple. 1) Have no other God's but God. and 2)Love your neighbor as yourself. Thats it. Thats all their is as far as strict laws go. All other things in life manifest themselves from these two laws.