A case for a peaceful, prosperous, working government.

“The human race will have no respite from evils until those who are really philosophers acquire political power or until, through some divine dispensation, those who rule and have political authority in the cities become real philosophers” -Plato (326a-326b).


Introduction

I started this search with a simple question; What is the absolute best way to ensure a peaceful, prosperous, and functioning society while actively preventing decent to tyranny. Is there in fact a way to govern that does not have an evil power-hungry elite? No elite at all? In my research I stumbled upon all kinds of ideas, found flaws here and there, and noted them. It was only until the end of my search did I find an idea that seemed to hold ground with me.

This was mostly the political thoughts of Plato, and i will, to the best of my ability, attempt to present my carefully cultivated idea to you here at ATS. Please take the time to let it all sink in and please feel free to question everything presented, as it is essential to the idea of a lasting prosperity. There will be flaws, and i encourage you to point them out.

Ramble On ATS.

#1 Education

“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and money system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.” -Henry Ford

One of the first realizations i had about this was when i was reading Plato, and he pointed out that surely if the jurors in the Trial of Socrates were educated, he would not have been killed. That was exactly it, i thought, he was so smart that regular, uneducated people deemed him a lunatic, when in actuality he was one of the greatest thinkers ever.

I'm gonna take a wild guess and assume that most members of ATS see lack of education as a problem, in fact i believe it is absolutely key to why we find ourselves in the dismal state we're in. If the people had real, solid education, do you think the people in power would have been able to deceive man kind for such a long time?

In order for a government to function, the people must be educated, informed, plugged in. They have to be able to see past the fake smiles, to see what the people in power are doing and as a result come together to call them on it. Real educated people wouldn't be fooled by propaganda, or even logical lies. The people must be able to see through the smoke and mirrors and get down to what the real motives are, or the people with power will take advantage as we see today.

So, naturally the first element of a functioning free government would be a truly educated public. This would be achieved with very high level schools with very intelligent and intellectual teachers that teach creatively and encourage students to use critical thinking skills, to question everything presented to them and to use those skills and apply them to every aspect of life.

#2 Getting Past Indoctrination

One of the bigger problems in this society is all of the differing opinions and belief systems. it's not to say we need to get rid of these systems. but they surely do cause tension between one another, and often leave us debating as to "the right way to do things". As an example, Right VS. Left.

One could say a lot of these problems come from belief systems in family's, and in parents. For an example, i can say my parents helped a great deal in shaping my morality, beliefs, and views. They brought me up to respect women, to be polite, and were very conservative, prompting me to have moderate conservative views. i'd assume (excuse me for assumptions) that in some way shape or form we've all been indoctrinated or brought up to believe something should be some way from birth.

Now fixing this is surely a tricky thing to achieve. Now don't chastise me for saying this, but i think one of the most effective ways of fixing this is to simply not have parents. To be brought up by society as a whole, to listen to extremely differing views and not have any sort of emotional connection to a person with a certain view prompting the child to believe the view because of that connection. In this sort of setting, a person would be extremely well rounded given they would constantly be exposed to either very differing views or a consensus view (if this had been going on for many generations, the views would be extremely well rounded and maybe may not be entirely different). Give that a thought .

#3 Labor

How does one go about getting essentials produced and distributed in a way that doesn't limit freedom? A very tricky question indeed however, ill attempt to answer this in the best possible way i can.

The problem i see today is that some people switch careers very often, making it hard for others to have a good career. Business moguls often mix with politics, business often own many different countries, and it starts to become a bit of a monopoly, allowing for an ultra powerful elite.

What i propose is a system in children are helped from birth finding the perfect career path for them. As an example. if someone shows skill at say soccer, and continues to show that skill, they should be given a job as an athlete. There could be someone or something dedicated to finding the perfect career paths, where people are happy with the job and would like to do it for the rest of their lives, and that's exactly what they will do.

This could possibly be a very good way to make sure everything is done that needed to be done.

#4 Leaders

This idea to me seemed a bit hard grasp, how could we make sure that our leaders aren't lying, crooked thugs?
Then i thought to myself, how would we determine who is best to lead? Well, we could test this by putting people in a group, assigning them a task, and see who it is that stands up and leads the group to complete the task.

It then occurred to me, leaders shouldn't be chosen, they should simply lead out of the pure will to lead. We could potentially identify our leaders in a similar way we identify the Athlete or the Scientist, see who it is that takes charge and seems to complete tasks in an efficient way.

Though surely these leaders must also be thoughtful, intelligent, caring, and humane. I suggest once the leaders are identified, immediately put them in a higher school to learn ins and outs of Ethical, Moral, and political philosophy. Once they are well versed in philosophy, throw them to the absolute low of society, make them poor as dirt, and for a long time. This will give them a grasp on what its like to live at the very bottom. They would be able to relate to the very poor, and possibly after a few years, become humble, caring, and in touch. After that, put them in government with very low pay, and keep business completely separate. If Philosophers ruled the land, they would try as hard as possible to create a functioning society as it would be their nature.

#5 Crime and Punishment

Now this one was a bit tricky for me, i thought about it for a long time, read a few things and decided that the best way to tackle crime and punishment would be rehabilitation. It makes no sense to lock someone up, unless they are extremely dangerous and beyond repair. Often times though, being incarcerated with violent criminals for a non-violent crime could only make one more crime-prone as the only companions are in fact, ruthless criminals.

(Continued in next post)

So what I propose would be to have different treatments and different systems for each crime. For drug use, possibly a caring clinic that helps one kick the addiction, for monetary crimes such as fraud, there could be monetary advisers that help people manage money in a better way, if they continue to commit fraud; their finances could be looked in to. I think a treatment customizable to the crime may be a good way to stop or slow crime. It could also open up a great array of more jobs for the public.

Conclusion
Well ATS, those were my thoughts for a functioning government. As ATS is what it is, I not only expect criticism, I completely encourage it, why? To aid in finding flaws and to help me to determine how to fix these flaws in order to make this theory a bit better. Thanks for taking the time to read my thread and I hope you’ve all enjoyed it.
-MrRamblinRose

You bring up some good points about the core issues that the populace has to face as it pertains to government. I have always asked what the ideal government would be. I always run in to the answer in the form of a question that is "What would be the ideal government for me?"

Personally I am an anarcho-capitalist. While this seems extreme considering that we as a human race have been governed by some form of collective entity for ages, I feel that the best governance is self governance. While I feel that this is the best government for me, It may not be for others for many reasons.

Overall, Its threads like these that offer promise for everyone to shape a better future as it brings awareness to what is now and what can be in the future if we so choose. In my opinion, by far the most important thing is to educate people that our current ways are not working and we need to entertain ideas that can push for a peaceful, prosperous, working government. Or no government at all

Star for you

reply to post by ObjectiveEgalitarian


Indeed, I believe its important now that we strive to try radically different forms of government to see what it is that works best for society as a whole. We're at an age where our current system is doomed to fall and we as citizens of this world must cultivate a new way of doing things.

Nice post! I enjoyed reading it, though I think it wouldn't be feasible for current conventional thought or natural human behavior. Especially in a capitalist society like ours. Everything is about advancing up the industry ladder using your talent and learned skills to gain the upper hand against your opponent, because let's face it, the elites didn't get where they are by being nice. Those who live at the top will always do their best to live at the top, and will more than likely try to secure the best possible life for their children.

Education as a result, is one that is suffering the most here in America because not every state can fund schools like they should. The education a high school student gets from a high school in Southern Arizona will greatly differ than one at the East Coast. This is because of the huge difference in the median family income. Looking at your plan to utilize intelligent teachers would be hard to do, since you would have to pay them more money. On top of that, not every student has the capabilities, or desire, to question everything presented to them. After all, if their parents aren't a good role model, then they most certainly won't bother with objective thinking.

The next issue is your idea of conformity. I like conformity, in it, it has security. But most people have an issue with that. I highly doubt a majority of Americans will be on board with the idea of letting society itself raise children. I suppose I personally need some more clarification on what exactly "society" entails in this plan. Since there is good and bad within society.

As for your labor idea, I feel that it is something most capitalist societies have. The only difference I can see is that the government plays more of a role in a child's development and future career path. This is probably the exact opposite of what Republicans and conservatives want; that is, government playing a role in people's lives.

I like the concept of picking the brightest of leaders and having them undergo a "sympathy" program before they could be leaders. Reminds me of a technocracy where only the intelligent, skillful men and women are admitted into office. I would endorse an idea like that. Crime is an issue that I really have no clue about, but from what I've read, it sounds like a good idea.

Overall, your government plan comes off as more liberal than conservative if anything (which isn't a bad thing). The only real criticism I have is that it doesn't really 'conform' to human nature and just needs to be fleshed out a little more. Don't get me wrong though, I really enjoyed reading this plan and hope you continue making thoughtful threads such as these.

reply to post by robodrag0n


This wasn't exactly a post concerning liberal or consverative views, i got most of it from plato and this plan would advocate getting rid of the right vs left, so i went a bit out of my belief system on making this.

Yes kinks have to be worked out for sure, and yes people are dominant in nature. But what i think would eventually happen after a few generations of this being implemented is that possibly we could get rid of the power hierarchy in a way, sow new ideas that don't involve getting a leg up, but more to maintain a peaceful prosperous society. You get your dominance from contributing the most to a peaceful way of life.

I don't feel like we would need a government persay to be involved in labor, it could be more of a community effort, teachers make suggestions, it wouldn't need to be government that did it. This would take some serious changes in ideals but after many generations of new ideals eventually we could get to a place where the ideas of this world wouldn't be as prominent.

Yes the children thing is a bit hard to grasp at first, but once you think about it if we had a community in which everyone played a role in raising the children you get rid of the problem of parents corrupting the children.

Thanks for the input

The total number of human exchanges, whether economic, social, or psychological, and their intertwining influences and effects are not quantifiable by anyone or any machine. No system of government can micromanage its people without dire consequences.

In order for a government to function, the people must be educated, informed, plugged in.

I would say that this is false. If people were truly educated, informed, and plugged in, governments would not exist.

Now don't chastise me for saying this, but i think one of the most effective ways of fixing this is to simply not have parents

Whoa!

One of the most important relationships infants have is with their mother. This early relationships shapes the foundation of neural networks and has great impact on the rest of the child's life. These deep relationships with people can literally cause someone to being a serial killer or a saint. This is especially true during infancy.

#3 Labor

One reason people switch jobs is human progress. We no longer need horseshoe makers in the way we did two centuries ago. How can we expect to colonize space and explore the universe if industries cannot be rendered obsolete.

If Philosophers ruled the land, they would try as hard as possible to create a functioning society as it would be their nature.

Philosopher's would slowly devolve into despots. Plus, why would an truly educated populous need leaders?

I go back to my first sentence. "The total number of human exchanges, whether economic, social, or psychological, and their intertwining influences and effects are not quantifiable by anyone or any machine. "

The best we can hope for humanity is that it will some day stop hurting itself. The best we can do as humans, now, is to stop hurting each other and teach future generations the same.

reply to post by MrRamblinRose

What is the absolute best way to ensure a peaceful, prosperous, and functioning society while actively preventing decent to tyranny.

Term Limits. They will help prevent many of the problems, while keeping those elected working for the people.
I would prefer a set amount of tax dollars used to elections instead of any outside "donations" to prevent outside influence and paybacks.
Education is always a priority, unfortunately, many people are indifferent and do not follow their local elected people and how they vote, unless it affects them directly.

As for being prosperous, the government isn't there to be that. If they prosper, they are over taxing its' citizens.