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Is Wisdom the wife of God the Gnostics speak about? The Sophia?

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posted on Apr, 5 2012 @ 02:58 PM
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If not then just who is this female being that is spoken of in proverbs and the book of Enoch?


Does not wisdom cry out,
And understanding lift up her voice?
2 She takes her stand on the top of the high hill,
Beside the way, where the paths meet.
3 She cries out by the gates, at the entry of the city,
At the entrance of the doors:
4 “To you, O men, I call,
And my voice is to the sons of men.
5 O you simple ones, understand prudence,
And you fools, be of an understanding heart.
6 Listen, for I will speak of excellent things,
And from the opening of my lips will come right things;
7 For my mouth will speak truth;
Wickedness is an abomination to my lips.
8 All the words of my mouth are with righteousness;
Nothing crooked or perverse is in them.
9 They are all plain to him who understands,
And right to those who find knowledge.
10 Receive my instruction, and not silver,
And knowledge rather than choice gold;
11 For wisdom is better than rubies,
And all the things one may desire cannot be compared with her.
12 “I, wisdom, dwell with prudence,
And find out knowledge and discretion.
13 The fear of the Lord is to hate evil;
Pride and arrogance and the evil way
And the perverse mouth I hate.
14 Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom;
I am understanding, I have strength.
15 By me kings reign,
And rulers decree justice.
16 By me princes rule, and nobles,
All the judges of the earth.[a]
17 I love those who love me,
And those who seek me diligently will find me.
18 Riches and honor are with me,
Enduring riches and righteousness.
19 My fruit is better than gold, yes, than fine gold,
And my revenue than choice silver.
20 I traverse the way of righteousness,
In the midst of the paths of justice,
21 That I may cause those who love me to inherit wealth,
That I may fill their treasuries.
22 “The Lord possessed me at the beginning of His way, Before His works of old.
23 I have been established from everlasting, From the beginning, before there was ever an earth.
24 When there were no depths I was brought forth, When there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled, Before the hills, I was brought forth;
26 While as yet He had not made the earth or the fields, Or the primal dust of the world.
27 When He prepared the heavens, I was there, When He drew a circle on the face of the deep,
28 When He established the clouds above, When He strengthened the fountains of the deep,
29 When He assigned to the sea its limit, So that the waters would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth,
30 Then I was beside Him as a master craftsman; And I was daily His delight, Rejoicing always before Him,
31 Rejoicing in His inhabited world,

And my delight was with the sons of men.
32 “Now therefore, listen to me, my children,
For blessed are those who keep my ways.
33 Hear instruction and be wise,
And do not disdain it.
34 Blessed is the man who listens to me,
Watching daily at my gates,
Waiting at the posts of my doors.
35 For whoever finds me finds life,
And obtains favor from the Lord;
36 But he who sins against me wrongs his own soul;
All those who hate me love death.”

Ok so the bolded apart implies that this being Wisdom was made before the Lord created the earth


Wisdom has built her house,
She has hewn out her seven pillars;
2 She has slaughtered her meat,
She has mixed her wine,
She has also furnished her table.
3 She has sent out her maidens,
She cries out from the highest places of the city,
4 “Whoever is simple, let him turn in here!”
As for him who lacks understanding, she says to him,
5 “Come, eat of my bread
And drink of the wine I have mixed.
6 Forsake foolishness and live,
And go in the way of understanding.


Now these above verses imply that Wisdom is a she.




XLII. The Dwelling-places of Wisdom and of Unrighteousness. CHAPTER XLII. Book of Enoch
1. Wisdom found no place where she might dwell; Then a dwelling-place was assigned her in the heavens.

2 Wisdom went forth to make her dwelling among the children of men, And found no dwelling-place: Wisdom returned to her place, And took her seat among the angels.

3 And unrighteousness went forth from her chambers: Whom she sought not she found, And dwelt with them, p. 62 As rain in a desert And dew on a thirsty land.


Now i know some people dont take the book of Enoch as real biblical truth but i know some people do. So im wondering if anyone can explain just Who Wisdom is? Because from proverbs its seems to point out that Wisdom is not just the quality or state of being wise. But a being that was with the Lord since the beginning. Atleast the beginning of man from what i can understand.

Also if Wisdom is indeed the wife of the Lord then where did the Gnostics get the name Sophia from? It would make sense to me that the Lord would have a wife considering his tough stance on adultery. But I dont know. Tell me what yall think.




posted on Apr, 5 2012 @ 03:05 PM
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sophia is greek for wisdom i believe,and i think the gnostics believed god was a state of being,not a 'being'.
jesus said the kingdom of heaven is here on earth. gnostics followed the tru teachings of the christ,not the made up myth the roman occupiers forced on the people.thats why the cathors and the gnostics all got slaughtered in the first inquisition.it worked so well they kept it up for another century! burn any one who steps out of line!



posted on Apr, 5 2012 @ 03:07 PM
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I think wisdom / sophia is just a personification of the Wisdom of God...

We like to personify everything as humans - we personify the accuser / the evil force (the Satan) as a serpent or a red horned devil man...

God knows we like to personify things, which is part of the reason why He gave us Jesus.

Trying to "picture" what "Wisdom" looks like is going to conjure up human images in our heads - same as when we think about "God" people think "Guy in sky" and "Satan" people think "red horned devil man".

We strive to find something we can relate to when in reality God is describing things we cannot possibly fathom -
Can anyone really imagine the archangel Michael, one of the most powerful beings in Heaven, as literally being a single man? That's ludicrous - Michael is a powerful SPIRIT, a BEING, a PRESENCE or FORCE. He is powerful enough to take the form of a human being if he wants, but "he" is in reality nothing like us...



posted on Apr, 5 2012 @ 03:12 PM
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reply to post by Iason321
 


I could see that but why does proverbs use the words She to define Wisdom? Then Go and use words as He for the Lord? Or is that just bad english mistranslation perhaps?



posted on Apr, 5 2012 @ 03:13 PM
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reply to post by vaelamin
 


I believe wisdom is protrayed as female because IT brings humbleness... It gives people a softer more rational way of living...

Females within the bible are shown as being weaker... meek, and softer then their male counterparts...

And yes we tend to personify everything including God... Wisdom is actually an aspect of God... though it helps develop female qualities within said person...


edit on 5-4-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 5 2012 @ 03:19 PM
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reply to post by vaelamin
 


It's just part of the language of God.

Why do we call Him a Him? "He" really is not a He or a She, yet He is both a He and a She.

The wonders of God....



posted on Apr, 5 2012 @ 03:19 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


So each of these aspects of God have there own personalities? Interesting. How many aspects of God are there?



posted on Apr, 5 2012 @ 03:21 PM
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reply to post by vaelamin
 


An infinite number.

I'd imagine the entire combined knowledge of all humanity to ever exist, is probably less than 0.1% of what God knows.



posted on Apr, 5 2012 @ 03:24 PM
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I identify "Wisdom" as the feminine aspect of "The Word". Both of which manifested themselves in human form as Jesus Christ. Proverbs 8 also mentions her throughout as there during creation, as you point out..

It's also an interesting point that in Hebrew, in terms of grammar, "wisdom" is feminine.

Paul identifies the wisdom of God as Jesus in 1 Corinthians 1:24

"but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God."
edit on 5-4-2012 by wearewatchingyouman because: clarity



posted on Apr, 5 2012 @ 03:24 PM
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Originally posted by vaelamin
reply to post by Akragon
 


So each of these aspects of God have there own personalities? Interesting. How many aspects of God are there?


Why would an aspect (part) of a being have its own personality?

Consider the stories allegorical...

Think about it this way... IF "Sophia" is actually a female name, not just a word given to a certian quality of a being... why would there be a book called "the Sophia of Jesus"?

Was HE female?

The word represents female qualities said wisdom brings


edit on 5-4-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 5 2012 @ 03:25 PM
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reply to post by Iason321
 


So does that means Jesus would be one of these aspects?



posted on Apr, 5 2012 @ 03:32 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


IDK. The man who wrote proverbs is a confusing man. Like verse 22 of chapter 8 why would the Lord possess himself? And why is the Lord refering to himself in 3rd person? This is also the first time ive heard of the Lord refering to himself as a She. The bible is such a confusing book at times.



posted on Apr, 5 2012 @ 03:36 PM
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If one is to take the words of Jesus literally, he refers to his god as his father, and indeed "our father." For there to be a father one would assume that there would also be a mother. The Queen of Heaven. Most mythological deities had female wives and daughters.

I have heard some claim that god wanted to keep his wife under wraps to protect her purity from blasphemous humans.



posted on Apr, 5 2012 @ 03:43 PM
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reply to post by wearewatchingyouman
 


The doctor who wrote the divine council also referred to Jesus as being Wisdom. But that also confused me because Jesus was a man. The mistranslation of the Hebrew language is to much for me at times.


reply to post by windword
 



Well thats interesting aswell.
edit on 5-4-2012 by vaelamin because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 5 2012 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by vaelamin
reply to post by Akragon
 


IDK. The man who wrote proverbs is a confusing man. Like verse 22 of chapter 8 why would the Lord possess himself? And why is the Lord refering to himself in 3rd person? This is also the first time ive heard of the Lord refering to himself as a She. The bible is such a confusing book at times.


what version are you reading?

22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

I find nothing confusing about this honestly...

Do you believe God wrote the bible?




posted on Apr, 5 2012 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by vaelamin
 


I read the one chapter that you posted by him. Seems like a great thinker. I wish you'd post the whole book. I don't want to spend the 16 bucks right now...



posted on Apr, 5 2012 @ 03:49 PM
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Originally posted by windword
If one is to take the words of Jesus literally, he refers to his god as his father, and indeed "our father." For there to be a father one would assume that there would also be a mother. The Queen of Heaven. Most mythological deities had female wives and daughters.

I have heard some claim that god wanted to keep his wife under wraps to protect her purity from blasphemous humans.


I believe the reader has to understand things from a human perspective... the Father being the "Head" of the house hold... while Sophia or "the female aspect of God" being the "spirit" of peacefulness in said household... the "spirit" that keeps everything together... and creates harmony within the family...

This of course will create the idea that God is more then one entity... which is incorrect according to scripture...




posted on Apr, 5 2012 @ 03:49 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


If we go by the logic which i think you are using it would mean the person who wrote proverbs was around before the creation of earth? Or are you saying God was the one who wrote the book of proverbs? Dont mean to ask you many questions but just like your cheshire avatar your confusing.



posted on Apr, 5 2012 @ 03:51 PM
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reply to post by vaelamin
 


One could take that theory even further and insinuate that Mary wasn't the mother of Jesus, at all, that an embryo, created by god and his wive, was implanted into Mary. Mary could have just been a surrogate, not the mother of Jesus.

But that would screw with the lineage of Jesus prophecy, that makes him the Messiah.



posted on Apr, 5 2012 @ 03:55 PM
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reply to post by vaelamin
 

S&F for this~! Ok..some on here might not believe this.. but I surely do. I believe Wisdom IS a physical female persona, I believe this because I had the privalege to meet her personally one-on one in a dream I had 13 years ago. Here's the dream..I'll have to start with a bit of a backstory to make the point clear from the dream..

I had met a wounderfull woman in a christian chat room, and quite divinely actually. i can't get into details how i met her since it would take up WAY to much time and this isn't the thread for that. After 9 months and many tribulations' in the relationship, I became very very confused, and pretty much 'tossed up my hands' and let the relationship just be and didn't contact her any more..

(the Dream)
I found myself in a grey room that seemed to be a bit misty/foggy and sitting in a straight backed chair, much like a kitchen chair, very plain but, certainly not broken. Across the from me an arms length away was a woman, not beautiful but, captivating: looking at her I instantly knew she was a woman full of deep wisdom. She was dressed in a long white dress.

I was telling her the entire beginging of the relationship and all the details, she sat quietly without a word but was looking at me all the time, nodding every now and again. All the intricate details of how we met each other etc, etc...this one sided conversation lasted what seemed to be at least an hour.

The next thing I know, I was hanging my head a bit describing something else and questioning when i heard her speak my name .. "***".. I heard her but, it was like I didn't hear her.. " ***" ~! she said my name in a louder voice and I instantly stopped talking and looked at her and she said "you have to let the Father do what the Father needs to do"

Tears streamed down my face in the dream, knowing there was nothing I could and let God do what he wanted, without me trying to 'interviene'......I woke up wiping my eyes. As much as I wanted to be with her, I believe at that time the relationship was over.

To this day, I believe I met Wisdom, and believe she IS a female; is she the Lord's wife, I've never heard it put that way before, but, who's to say she's can not be?



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