Why has modern doghma overruled Scripture?, page
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reply posted on 24-9-2004 @ 06:25 PM by GradyPhilpott
Consider the following from The Urantia Book:

CHRISTIANITY'S PROBLEM

"Do not overlook the value of your spiritual heritage, the river of truth running down through the centuries, even to the barren times of a materialistic and secular age. In all your worthy efforts to rid yourselves of the superstitious creeds of past ages, make sure that you hold fast the eternal truth. But be patient! when the present superstition revolt is over, the truths of Jesus' gospel will persist gloriously to illuminate a new and better way.

"But paganized and socialized Christianity stands in need of new contact with the uncompromised teachings of Jesus; it languishes for lack of a new vision of the Master's life on earth. A new and fuller revelation of the religion of Jesus is destined to conquer an empire of materialistic secularism and to overthrow a world sway of mechanistic naturalism. Urantia is now quivering on the very brink of one of its most amazing and enthralling epochs of social readjustment, moral quickening, and spiritual enlightenment.

"The teachings of Jesus, even though greatly modified, survived the mystery cults of their birthtime, the ignorance and superstition of the dark ages, and are even now slowly triumphing over the materialism, mechanism, and secularism of the twentieth century. And such times of great testing and threatened defeat are always times of great revelation.

"Religion does need new leaders, spiritual men and women who will dare to depend solely on Jesus and his incomparable teachings. If Christianity persists in neglecting its spiritual mission while it continues to busy itself with social and material problems, the spiritual renaissance must await the coming of these new teachers of Jesus' religion who will be exclusively devoted to the spiritual regeneration of men. And then will these spirit-born souls quickly supply the leadership and inspiration requisite for the social, moral, economic, and political reorganization of the world.

"The modern age will refuse to accept a religion which is inconsistent with facts and out of harmony with its highest conceptions of truth, beauty, and goodness. The hour is striking for a rediscovery of the true and original foundations of present-day distorted and compromised Christianity--the real life and teachings of Jesus.

"Primitive man lived a life of superstitious bondage to religious fear. Modern, civilized men dread the thought of falling under the dominance of strong religious convictions. Thinking man has always feared to be held by a religion. When a strong and moving religion threatens to dominate him, he invariably tries to rationalize, traditionalize, and institutionalize it, thereby hoping to gain control of it. By such procedure, even a revealed religion becomes man-made and man-dominated. Modern men and women of intelligence evade the religion of Jesus because of their fears of what it will do to them--and with them. And all such fears are well founded. The religion of Jesus does, indeed, dominate and transform its believers, demanding that men dedicate their lives to seeking for a knowledge of the will of the Father in heaven and requiring that the energies of living be consecrated to the unselfish service of the brotherhood of man.

"Selfish men and women simply will not pay such a price for even the greatest spiritual treasure ever offered mortal man. Only when man has become sufficiently disillusioned by the sorrowful disappointments attendant upon the foolish and deceptive pursuits of selfishness, and subsequent to the discovery of the barrenness of formalized religion, will he be disposed to turn wholeheartedly to the gospel of the kingdom, the religion of Jesus of Nazareth.

"The world needs more firsthand religion. Even Christianity--the best of the religions of the twentieth century--is not only a religion about Jesus, but it is so largely one which men experience secondhand. They take their religion wholly as handed down by their accepted religious teachers. What an awakening the world would experience if it could only see Jesus as he really lived on earth and know, firsthand, his life-giving teachings! Descriptive words of things beautiful cannot thrill like the sight thereof, neither can creedal words inspire men's souls like the experience of knowing the presence of God. But expectant faith will ever keep the hope-door of man's soul open for the entrance of the eternal spiritual realities of the divine values of the worlds beyond.

"Christianity has dared to lower its ideals before the challenge of human greed, war-madness, and the lust for power; but the religion of Jesus stands as the unsullied and transcendent spiritual summons, calling to the best there is in man to rise above all these legacies of animal evolution and, by grace, attain the moral heights of true human destiny.

"Christianity is threatened by slow death from formalism, overorganization, intellectualism, and other nonspiritual trends. The modern Christian church is not such a brotherhood of dynamic believers as Jesus commissioned continuously to effect the spiritual transformation of successive generations of mankind.

"So-called Christianity has become a social and cultural movement as well as a religious belief and practice. The stream of modern Christianity drains many an ancient pagan swamp and many a barbarian morass; many olden cultural watersheds drain into this present-day cultural stream as well as the high Galilean tablelands which are supposed to be its exclusive source."

Paper 195

Paper 196


[edit on 04/9/24 by GradyPhilpott]



reply posted on 26-9-2004 @ 01:06 AM by Byrd
Originally posted by everlastingnoitall
Why in modern times (especially when factoring the dogmatic nature of the Catholic church) have we, as christian sects and beliefs, gotten to a point where many of the denominations have placed sect specific rules and regulations (think Rosary, Hail Mary's, etc) above teachings of the Bible. The early church did not adhere to dogmatic principles of regulation over pure interaction and fellowship with God, and each other.


I think you're making some bad assumptions here, and one of them is that the current fundamentalist Protestantism is the way that the original Christians worshipped.

They'd be horrified at the insistance that Jesus is God, for instance. The doctrine of the trinity comes late to the religion (after 400 AD) and would have seemed blasphemous to them.

They may not have used the Torah at all in their worship (Old Testament.)

The Bible books would have conflicted with some of their scriptural material and stories about Jesus (there are quite a few early Christian books and a bunch of them were left out of the Bible. ) You may have found more Essene material included.

The Book of Revelation would not have been used.

Furthermore, the people were illiterate. The purpose of symbols (as the Catholic Church uses) and rituals is to help the illiterate learn the basic principles of the religion. This ensures that the message is transmitted unchanged in tone and content.

Now that you're literate, you feel free to rewrite and reinterpret the Bible (this was one of the benefits of having it in Latin... it was hard to MISinterpret.)

If you want to get closer to the old ways; the ways of the apostles, you will have to go back to the churches that preserve the earliest traditions... and I think you'll find those are Catholic.




(not that I care, myself. I'm Wiccan. But the New Insistance that the Catholics Got It All Wrong From The Start And For Thousands Of Years is just plain silly.)


reply posted on 26-9-2004 @ 02:05 AM by illimey
Originally posted by everlastingnoitall
A Question for those who believe the Bible (atheists and agnostics, pagans, wiccans, etc, feel free).

Why in modern times (especially when factoring the dogmatic nature of the Catholic church) have we, as christian sects and beliefs, gotten to a point where many of the denominations have placed sect specific rules and regulations (think Rosary, Hail Mary's, etc) above teachings of the Bible. The early church did not adhere to dogmatic principles of regulation over pure interaction and fellowship with God, and each other. True, there are principles and outlines of behavior in the Bible (mostly outlined by the apostle Paul in his letters) in order to facilitate orderly structure during gatherings for purpose of exhortatian, teaching and encouragement. However, in modern times, there has been an effort, it seems, to place Church authority over Biblical authority. This , in my opinion, is the main reason so many people are turned off by Christianity. Interpretation of the basic fundamental of Scripture seems universal throughout the denominations (catholicism, and a few minor sects are exceptions), however so many denominations spring up because of interpretation and expounding on the structure set forward in Scripture. Why do men attempt to improve on a system that was designed perfect by God?

Your thoughts?
Or not. Either way. Been bugging me.

[edit on 24-9-2004 by everlastingnoitall]


My faith is based entirely on my absolute trust that the Bible is the Word of God. I know very little about my faith because I am a very poor Bible scholar. However, I can offer these thoughts:

A disturbing percentage of Christians today do not share my trust in the Bible, therefore they are forced to seek out alternative and often humanistic affirmations of their faith. I believe completely that this state of affairs is the result of the subtle work of satan as he:

a: deceives people through the horror that is evolutionary theory;
b: deceives people by portraying himself as a cartoon figure thereby suggesting to many people that he doesn't actually exist therefore there is really no 'good vs. evil';
c. encourages the lie that 'all roads lead to god - it doesn't matter what you have faith in, just that you have faith';
d. keeps people's minds utterly empty and utterly occupied by the endless streams of mindless entertainment beaming into our homes and lives - even the news programs are now more entertainment than anything else;
e. constantly leads people to overlook and ignore feelings of personal guilt by twisting the truth until we all blame God for the state of the world rather than blaming ourselves for turning our backs on God.

All these points add up to a western Christianity that is far too ashamed of it's Root [Christ and His teachings] to stand up for them anymore. Many people still have a genuine faith, but they are so secular in their outlook that acknowledging Christ as the ultimate authority in their life is almost unthinkable. So the authority passes from the perfect to the imperfect, and error rampages in.

Catholicism's base error is to place ultimate power in the hands of imperfect man rather than in the hands of Christ. Catholic tradition is a grim mix of idolism, unscriptual theology, bad management and in some cases intentional deception. Please read 'A Woman Rides the Beast' by Dave Hunt for an eye-opening look at catholicism. However, I firmly believe that many catholics are also Christians with a genuine faith in Christ, and sadly many Protestant traditions are as empty as Catholic ones.

So - church authority has replaced Biblical authority through the subtle work of satan and the willingness of humanity to turn from simple truths to a multitude of increasingly complex mix of humanistic theologies. The Bible is far to simple. Christ's teachings were aimed at children. Salvation through faith rather than works is obviously just a sweet picture painted in the minds of the fool. Science has apparently disproved part of the Bible, so the rest of it is obviously irrelevant as well....

Christendom no longer believes that God is Who the Bible says He is. Therefore Christainity has found it necesary to rebuild it's faith... and the solid, unshakeable foundation has been replaced by sand.
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