How long can a 9/11 post stay on topic? Lets ask plenty of questions about 9/11, page 1

Pages: << 1 2 >>
ATS Members have flagged this thread 5 times

Topic started on 5-4-2012 @ 08:32 AM by KpxMarMoTT

Hello everyone ! I just read a lot about disinformation and counterintelligence and I want to put this theory I have to the test. I have a tons of questions and I was wondering if some of you could anwser...

First off I would like to point out that America is one of the largest countries in the world. Even before 9/11 its intelligence service spending was way more important than most countries. In fact; it is in this community of intelligence gathering that the United States has always stayed ahead of the curb so to speak. The CIA or central intelligence agency has spies all over the world. They gather intelligence to protect the interests of the United States. So does the NSA or even certain branches of the FBI specialize in counter-terrorism etc. Now these 3 agencies have solid intelligence on events that did not even happen yet or are going to happen. They keep tabs on everyone remotely suspicious or even remotely connected to illegal activities. Chances are that you’ve somehow connected with someone related to illegal activity and you don’t even know about it. But they do.
Ok so lets speak about another organization that keeps tabs on our airspace: NORAD.

Did you know that this place can actually withstand a nuclear attack? It can detect within seconds any type of attack or problem within the airspace of the United States. For those who have no idea take a look here.

en.wikipedia.org... The reaction time here between agencies and the government is almost none existent. The president could ask for a nuclear strike no matter where and it would be transferred and ordered and countdown started within minutes. (2 or 3 not more) If I remember correctly it took mostly half an hour for the FAA to react and start to ground every plane in their on respective jurisdiction on 9/11.

Now explain to me how the FAA reacted faster then norad? Why is it that having active f15s in the air did not change interception time for airspace coverage. How is it that nothing was done to protect the immediate affected airspace after the first “plane” hit. How is it that Building 7 containing CIA safe houses and FBI Personnel, that were implicated with the ongoing investigation into the bin laden family before 911 happened to “collapse” after it “caught” fire? How is it that spontaneous combustion happens ?

I mean of course it wasn’t an inside job… I mean its evident isn’t it? (hahaha bring it on)

reply posted on 5-4-2012 @ 08:37 AM by Myendica

I agree that norad should have been on top of it. One could say the closing of bases in prior years thwarted their ability to respond. But they responded swift and well everytime before and after.

reply posted on 5-4-2012 @ 08:39 AM by swan001

reply to post by KpxMarMoTT

I asked myself all these questions. The documents are simply classified, nothing can prove our logic right. All our theories, wathever logic they are, can't be proved by actual documents...
The tower could have had a super-combustion using positron based explosion device? That may caused all the electrond in the matter to destroy, leaving bondless atoms or micromolecules.

reply posted on 5-4-2012 @ 08:50 AM by KpxMarMoTT

Originally posted by swan001
reply to post by KpxMarMoTT

I asked myself all these questions. The documents are simply classified, nothing can prove our logic right. All our theories, wathever logic they are, can't be proved by actual documents...
The tower could have had a super-combustion using positron based explosion device? That may caused all the electrond in the matter to destroy, leaving bondless atoms or micromolecules.

Listening too much SG1 are we? huhu !

It makes no sense that people think nothing of all this. This is but a few parcels of the entire conspiracy. Its even worse a conspiracy then when John F Kennedy died ! hum was assisnated by the CIA....

reply posted on 5-4-2012 @ 08:50 AM by samkent

It wasn't a confirmed attack until the second plane hit. It was an accident.
After that it was WHo's in command and what are my orders as a pilot?

You don't just simply give orders to shoot down any hijacked airplane. That would play into the terrorists hands.
"If we just hijack the plane the American air Force will shoot us down."
"Then they will have turmoil with their media."
"It will go on for months. And all we had to do was take over. We don't need to bring weapons just say we have a bomb in our checked luggage. They will do the rest for us by shooting us down!" "Praise Allah"

That's not what we want.

reply posted on 5-4-2012 @ 08:54 AM by samkent

As to building 7.
Drop a bunch of steel throught the building and you are going to sever power cables. That is sure to start electrical fires.
Add to that the severed water pipes underground and you have no water to fight the fires.
It's not hard to see where it ends up.

reply posted on 5-4-2012 @ 09:04 AM by neotech1neothink

Hi,

THERE IS 100% REAL EVIDENCE "OUT THERE" PROVING THAT 9/11 WAS AN "INSIDE JOB".

WHAT YOU GONNA DO ABOUT IT? NOTHING!

YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT! NOBODY IS BOTHERED! NO-ONE IS LISTENING!

TRY CONCENTRATING ON WHAT YOU CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT WHICH IS BECOME "ENLIGHTENED".

THEN YOU WILL KNOW THAT NOTHING MATTERS!

IS "ALL" ILLUSION!

reply posted on 5-4-2012 @ 09:19 AM by KpxMarMoTT

Originally posted by samkent
As to building 7.
Drop a bunch of steel throught the building and you are going to sever power cables. That is sure to start electrical fires.
Add to that the severed water pipes underground and you have no water to fight the fires.
It's not hard to see where it ends up.

Of course a reinforced FBI and CIA safe house just "happened" to have a bunch of steel that "fell" through the building cause it was at least a block away. But buildings in the next street never "caught" fire in the same fashion.

OH neotech1neothink I believe that if you never try anything you never succeed at anything. And that is the point right there. Trying is in fact succeeding. I am not loosing my time by asking questions as asking questions and helping others is the way to enlightenment (or something of the sort)

But to get back into topic of 9/11 the calls received by the FAA seem to prove that they were aware 10 minutes after the first plane had crashed that at least another was going AWOL. this also means that security systems within NORAD also had detected the issues. They were well aware of everything at that point. No exercise could ever change that. They don't stop defending the country because they are having a millitary exercise.

Go on please

reply posted on 5-4-2012 @ 09:35 AM by defcon5

Originally posted by KpxMarMoTT
Ok so lets speak about another organization that keeps tabs on our airspace: NORAD.

Your first mistake is that NORAD DOES NOT keep tabs on US airspace. They actually watch the various DEW (Distant Early Warning) and BAR (barlant/Barpac ) Lines. They rely on second hand, civilian relayed, radar information from the FAA for internal monitoring.

If you think about it for a second, it all makes sense. NORAD really doesn't give a rats butt what's flying around INSIDE our country, their job was to watch for bombers coming in from overseas to start a war. There was no consideration given to the idea that an attack would come from inside our boarders.

Originally posted by KpxMarMoTT
It can detect within seconds any type of attack or problem within the airspace of the United States.

No it cannot...
Again that is not its job, and flight plans are not filed with NORAD, but rather the FAA. NORAD would have absolutely zero idea if a plane was going off course, unless civilian ATC called them and told them it was off course.

Think about it for a second and it makes sense. Pilots don't file their flight plans with the military, they file them with civilian ATC.

Originally posted by KpxMarMoTT
The reaction time here between agencies and the government is almost none existent. The president could ask for a nuclear strike no matter where and it would be transferred and ordered and countdown started within minutes.

Also not true.
Even a nuclear exchange takes hours to accomplish, its done this way on purpose so each side has pauses to back the situation down.

You first response would be from Boomers (subs) that are closest to the target. They can reach the target within minutes. Next would be the ICBM's, which can take over an hour to reach their targets. Then finally the bombers would be sent in to “mop up” which takes quite a number of hours for them to load, fuel, and fly to their targets.

You also have to keep in mind that this happened after the cold war, and after Clinton had taken major steps to dismantle our forces. We were no longer keeping bombers loaded and ready for a bomber response. There was no need to do this because we had the ICBM's and boomers out there as our first line.

Originally posted by KpxMarMoTT
Now explain to me how the FAA reacted faster then norad?

because it was their jurisdiction, NORAD has no idea when a civilian plane goes off flight plan, or why.

Originally posted by KpxMarMoTT
Why is it that having active f15s in the air did not change interception time for airspace coverage.

Just like the bombers, we stopped keeping fighters on the “ready” because we didn't need them. Their job was only to intercept bombers anyway, they cannot intercept missiles, so they would have hours to prep them to make an intercept if a war had started.

Remember that first both sides would use sub launched missiles, then they use ICBM's, neither of which fighters can stop. The only thing that fighters can stop is bombers, and they are not only the last thing to be used, but also the slowest thing to arrive. Our fighters would most likely have 4 or more hours to respond to a nuclear war.

On the morning of 911 there were only two fighters on the “ready” for the entire country. The other fighters that were involved just happened to already be in the air at the time doing training.

Originally posted by KpxMarMoTT
How is it that nothing was done to protect the immediate affected airspace after the first “plane” hit.

Again, there were only two on the ready, and a few out doing training that could even reach the areas in time. Additionally, even if they could reach the planes, they could not do anything about them. The orders to fire on a civilian passenger plane had to come from the top.

reply posted on 5-4-2012 @ 09:46 AM by neotech1neothink

Originally posted by KpxMarMoTT

OH neotech1neothink I believe that if you never try anything you never succeed at anything. And that is the point right there. Trying is in fact succeeding. I am not loosing my time by asking questions as asking questions and helping others is the way to enlightenment (or something of the sort)

CONGRATULATIONS KpxMarMoTT on your wise words

YOU are precisely right! Your hard effort is NOT wasted! Solving the world/universal puzzle via any route (e.g. solving 9/11) is the WAY to ENLIGHTENMENT!

CARRY ON KpxMarMoTT WITH YOUR GREAT WORK in ENLIGHTENING the WORLD via ATS!

EVERYONE will soon GET UNLIMITED HAPPINESS FOREVER thanks to your KpxMarMoTT and ATSers efforts!

reply posted on 5-4-2012 @ 09:57 AM by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by KpxMarMoTT
Now explain to me how the FAA reacted faster then norad? Why is it that having active f15s in the air did not change interception time for airspace coverage. How is it that nothing was done to protect the immediate affected airspace after the first “plane” hit. How is it that Building 7 containing CIA safe houses and FBI Personnel, that were implicated with the ongoing investigation into the bin laden family before 911 happened to “collapse” after it “caught” fire? How is it that spontaneous combustion happens ?

I mean of course it wasn’t an inside job… I mean its evident isn’t it? (hahaha bring it on)

Now you see, THIS is exactly why there are all these goofball conspiracy stories floating around the internet. Most of your questions were already answered in the 9/11 commission report TEN YEARS AGO and it's blatantly obvious that either due to sheer laziness or due to abject paranoia you've refused to read it...and then you turn around and ask questions you should already have known the answer to because no matter where anyone stands on the 9/11 debate the 9/11 commission report is almost a mandatory starting point for discussion. You may not accept the answers the 9/11 report offers, and if you're one of those 9/11 truthers it's a given you won't because you WANT these sinister secret plots to be true, but at least you'll have had an answer to your questions.

Let's be honest here- all you're doing is mindlessly quoting the drivel you got off some damned fool conspiracy website, without a shred of any tangible rational analysis, because only to a conspiracy truther does it make sense that the CIA would set up a secret safe house in a bulding they were secretly plottng to blow up. That idea sounds like something Alex Jones would have come up with.

reply posted on 5-4-2012 @ 10:00 AM by hooper

reply to post by KpxMarMoTT

This is simply an argument from the very popular "uber government" school of paranoia. The government is all knowing and all powerful, ergo it is responsible for everything. Just nonsense.

reply posted on 5-4-2012 @ 10:06 AM by defcon5

Here's a prime example:
Airliner crew flies 150 miles past airport

NORAD was not involved with this one either, and no fighters were scrambled.
As a matter of fact, the FAA called the airlines dispatch to try and communicate with the crew.

BTW... I don't buy that these guys got in an argument for one second. Personally, I think these two bozo bird drivers fell asleep.

edit on 4/5/2012 by defcon5 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 5-4-2012 @ 10:55 AM by XxNightAngelusxX

Of course they aren't gonna react like its a normal terrorist attack. We weren't being attacked, we were being sacrificed as a formality to send the nation into panic so they could crack down on us and steal more freedoms.

Plus, watch the videos. The buildings were both hit at the very top--and they fell apart from the bottom. The only way that was possible was if they set off explosives.

reply posted on 5-4-2012 @ 11:04 AM by KpxMarMoTT

Originally posted by defcon5
Here's a prime example:
Airliner crew flies 150 miles past airport

NORAD was not involved with this one either, and no fighters were scrambled.
As a matter of fact, the FAA called the airlines dispatch to try and communicate with the crew.

BTW... I don't buy that these guys got in an argument for one second. Personally, I think these two bozo bird drivers fell asleep.
edit on 4/5/2012 by defcon5 because: (no reason given)

===> Ok first off you tell me to read the 9/11 comission. The same comission that omitted testimonies from at least a thousand credible sources, has in fact buried information, has not asked for the president and his associates to swear under oath. That same comission that dismissed the black box was found and hidden and the same comission that told us that they had no idea terrorists were going to attack, when in fact the Counter terrorism specialist that was looking into the LADEN familly, and who was told by the top echelons of governement to fourget all about what he was warning, that same dude that died on the first day of his new job in the WTC attacks? Yeah the 9/11 comission sounds like they know the hell what they are talking about....

Of course I expected to be treated like a moron... So what If I am? at least I know a shady situation when I see one!

Ohh and Im sure I know what I am talking about when I say that N.O.R.A.D has security checks on ALLL ingoing and outgoing flights. No matter that they are civilian or not. This also includes Space bound objects and more. And this is double checked by National security agencies and such. You obviously have no idea how big NORAD is....

reply posted on 5-4-2012 @ 11:15 AM by RockLobster

www.youtube.com...

I think you want to watch this video if you have not seen it yet ........ the calls for an interception say it all.

Like everyone was saying on "9/11" ......... where is the air force ?

Although the OP has got a few things tangled up , i actually understand where he is coming from. This is the strictest air space security in the world , why werent they atleast , ATLEAST , tailing the jets ?

reply posted on 5-4-2012 @ 11:19 AM by swan001

From what I am seeing, this thread is going to be a lenghty one. Congratulation to you (the author), you are marking a point each times someone post! I thought in the beginning: ah, I don't think this post will go anywhere...
LOL.

reply posted on 5-4-2012 @ 11:29 AM by samkent

reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX

Plus, watch the videos. The buildings were both hit at the very top--and they fell apart from the bottom. The only way that was possible was if they set off explosives.

You are giving away your age. And it's clear you have not seen the videos.

reply posted on 5-4-2012 @ 11:47 AM by RockLobster

Originally posted by samkent
reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX

Plus, watch the videos. The buildings were both hit at the very top--and they fell apart from the bottom. The only way that was possible was if they set off explosives.

You are giving away your age. And it's clear you have not seen the videos.

Well , i suppose i coud say the same about yourself ....

-- " As to building 7.
Drop a bunch of steel throught the building and you are going to sever power cables. That is sure to start electrical fires.
Add to that the severed water pipes underground and you have no water to fight the fires.
It's not hard to see where it ends up. " --

By what you have just said ..... you beleive that a peice of steel continued to tear through building 7 untill it broke through the foundations of the building. Impossible ...... especially if there was no explosives used , do you know how much energy that would require ?

The fires in building 7 had nothing at all to do with the collapse , and the water pipes inside + under the building being severed , would not make any difference to the water supply of the emergency crews.

Pot , kettle , black.

reply posted on 5-4-2012 @ 02:37 PM by KpxMarMoTT

reply to post by defcon5

First off ATC does report to FAA and FAA charts are updated hourly to N.O.R.A.D. For the simple reason that they need to know who are the friendly’s and who is not. If that information is not available you simply cannot protect the airspace as anyone could enter the airspace with a transponder that matches civilian flight and just say, hey lets bomb this city. I mean come on its very important that you know that they get that information updated very rapidly. And also most people do not know this, but a nuclear war response is very , very rapid. This is because the enemy might blow you off the face of the earth on the first strike. That means they need to be quick in their response.

This in fact supports the question : Why was the air force so slow in its support of affected airspace? Why werent the exercises stopped ?

en.wikipedia.org...

Look at this part here :

8:25: Boston Center flight controllers alert other flight control centers regarding Flight 11. NORAD is not yet alerted.

And here :

8:37:52: Boston Center control notifies NEADS of the hijacking of Flight 11, the first notification received by NORAD that American 11 had been hijacked. The controller requests military help to intercept the jetliner.

Here is proof of NORAD involvement:

8:46: Two F-15 fighter jets are ordered to scramble from Otis Air National Guard Base in Massachusetts, intended to intercept Flight 11. Because Flight 11's transponder is off, the pilots do not know the location of their target. NEADS spends the next several minutes watching their radar screens in anticipation of Flight 11 returning a radar contact.

Now in 2001 we had radar. New York City has radars on top of every control tower in every airport. The closest being LaGuardia and seconded by John F Kennedy If memory serves. Both sites are well within radar range of the city. Proof again is in the pudding:

www4.passur.com...

Since you have two types of radars on those towers :

Ground Interrogation Equipment

An ATC ground station consists of two radar systems and their associated support components. The most prominent component is the PSR. It is also referred to as skin paint radar because sometimes it shows not synthetic or alpha-numeric target symbols, but bright (or colored) blips or areas on the “skin” of the radar screen. This is a non-cooperative process: it doesn't need any additional avionic devices; it detects and displays all reflective objects.Weather radar data is shown in skin paint mode generally. The primary surveillance radar is subject to the radar equation that says signal strength drops off as the fourth power of distance to the target. Objects detected using the PSR are known as primary targets.

The second system is the secondary surveillance radar, or SSR, which depends on a cooperating transponder installed on the aircraft being tracked. The transponder emits a signal when it is swept by the secondary radar. In a transponder based system signals drop off as the inverse square of the distance to the target, instead of the fourth power in primary radars. As a result, effective range is greatly increased for a given power level. The transponder can also send encoded information about the aircraft, such as identity and altitude.

So even if the transponder was inactive, they would still have eyes on the target as one radar system does not use the transponder answer response system. And if Air traffic Control has eyes on the prize, then you can rest assured that NORAD had Satellite view in real time..

edit on 5-4-2012 by KpxMarMoTT because: (no reason given)

Pages: << 1 2 >> ^^TOP^^