A question about evolution and living forever

reply to post by rhinoceros


You know this is an interesting question. I have a bunch of gay friends (3 guys and 1 girl). I once asked them why they are gay. 2 guys told me that they were born gay. When they were young, they played with dolls and wore feminine clothing. It was natural for them to do so. 1 guy told me that he chose to be gay. He was originally straight and loved sleeping with women. But for some reason he didn't feel right and chose to be gay.

My lesbian friend said she didn't remember how she became a lesbian. It just is.

You know this reminds me of Dr. Ian Stevenson's reincarnation research. Once you die, you can choose how you want to be reincarnated. Eh who knows

Originally posted by RBinOkc
Hey everyone this will be my first post so please go easy on me if this has already been discussed somewhere here on ATS.

My question is, if evolution is real wouldn't that mean that eventually we as humans would live forever? Now let me get this out of the way now. I am a christian but I also believe in evolution. I don't want this turning into who is right and who is wrong about this subject. I just simply want this question answered for what it is.

If I'm correct and please correct me if I am wrong as I'm not that educated with this type of stuff but doesn't evolution eliminate weak traits? Doesn't evolution make us bigger, faster, and stronger? Won't things like goosebumps and wisdom teeth be eliminated by evolution since we as humans have no need for them anymore? So my thinking is eventually won't us evolving eliminate things that may make us sick or weak? Won't we eventually over millions of years become "super human' or a race that will live forever? Another question I have is does DNA evolve and if so wouldn't that make my question even more valid?


MODS: If in the wrong forum please feel free to move

edit on 5-4-2012 by RBinOkc because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-4-2012 by RBinOkc because: (no reason given)

i believe if we can figure out how to replace hate with caring and learn how to live and let live, we may very well get to the point where we live much longer and we see evolution remove some of those very things. i'm a spiritual person also but i do understand that everything evolves physically and even spiritually so it's very possible that some day we won't need many of the genetic traits we have now.

Immortality is the issue of technology I would say...human life expectancy is prolonged the more advanced we get. Natural immortality is reserved for non living things i think.

For humans to reach immortality...I would say...another couple of thousands years would suffice. If our progress is not interrupted by a sudden devastating event.

Natural evolution is falling behind. We are inducing it more rapidly with tech advances.

reply to post by RBinOkc

Doesn't evolution make us bigger, faster, and stronger?

Evolution is simply change from one form to another. The direction of change depends on the conditions of the surrounding environment.

The engine driving most of this change is called natural selection. This is simply the principle that living things live longer and have more descendants if their physical form and behaviour are well suited to take advantage of their surroundings. That only rarely means being the biggest, fastest or strongest thing in it. It could just as well mean being the smallest or the slowest. What use is size to a hummingbird? What use is speed to a blue whale?

If, in a species, bigger, faster and stronger individuals tend to live longer and have more babies, then natural selection will drive the development of those traits. But stop and think for a minute. Where are the size, speed and strength going to come from? Nature gives no free lunches. There has to be adequate energy in the environment – in the form of food, sunlight, whatever it is the organism consumes – to support the development of stronger muscles, bigger bones, etc. This places a limit on development.

When resources are scarce, size, strength and speed can actually be harmful to survival. Think of a lion. There he is out on the African savannah, lord of all he surveys, perfectly suited to his environment. As long as the antelope are running, he's in clover. But now imagine a long drought – a drought that dries up the waterholes and kills the kudu and the springbok in droves. What price now the size, strength and speed of the king of the jungle? That massive, bulky body may not find enough food to sustain it until the rains come. Meanwhile, Big Leo's leaner, smaller competitors, the hyenas and wild dogs, scrape a living through the drought, and when the rains return they will mate and fill the world with their kind.

The traits that best support survival and reproduction always depend on how the organism interacts with its environment. Size is good for an animal that needs to fight against others of its kind (in mating contests and so on) but in the battle for survival it is often a liability. Speed sounds like an obvious all-round advantage, but animals that live in very cold climates (or very dry ones) often conserve energy by slowing down or hibernating. Narwhals, which live among the ice-floes of the Arctic, are among the slowest of all mammals in terms of their muscle movement and metabolism.

There are evolutionary situations in which it helps to be small, slow, weak and even stupid. Living beings have exploited all these situations. Sloths, tortoises and snails do pretty well out of slowness, don't they? Haven't jellyfish and hydras colonized all bodies of water on Earth without ever needing to evolve a brain? Remember, the most successful terrestrial organisms of all are bacteria – now there's something to make us proud humans stop and think!

Won't things like goosebumps and wisdom teeth be eliminated by evolution since we as humans have no need for them anymore?

Yes, because – as we have seen – the amount of energy and other resources available to an organism is limited, and spending it on traits lacking survival value means depriving other, more useful traits of energy. This weakens the organism and makes it relatively more likely to be eliminated from the gene pool before it can reproduce.

Over time, natural selection will tend to eliminate superfluous physical or behavioural traits. But environments also change over time; today's essential survival trait may become tomorrow's evolutionary leftover, and vice versa. My screen name is shared by a species of blind cave fish whose ancestors once had eyes. Has the fish 'devolved' because it is blind? Or has it evolved to become better suited to its environment, abandoning altogether the attempt to preserve its useless eyes and spending the energy saved by this on something more useful to a blind cave fish – a more sensitive lateral line, perhaps?

Won't we eventually over millions of years become "super human' or a race that will live forever?

If I have explained the subject well enough above, you now understand why this cannot happen. Evolution is not a steady upward progress towards an ideal of perfection. It is just change.

Another question I have is does DNA evolve and if so wouldn't that make my question even more valid?

Yes, DNA evolves. All evolution is, in the end, evolution of DNA.

reply to post by someguy0083

oh a bloody law student! nah good on you, make something of it, if I ever need a lawyer in the future a pm is coming your way now! Yeah I've kinda gathered that conclusion with your constitution recently, been watching the elections and listening to good old Ron Paul (should vote for that guy btw) he kinda outlined it perfectly and when I actually looked it up myself he's right onto it just as you are by explaining that.

Yeah your right with that Jesus aside from being the son of god etc, I can easily see how people would have gone for that despite everything else, he was a true humanitarian, his teachings actually are brilliant, I probably would have followed him not for the religious side of it because personally I think religion has been scued up abit throughout the years by typical politics and governments but thats a whole different story for a different time.

I like reading many so called holy books there teachings are amazing when you take it how you think you should. Make your own mind up and don't let anyone change it for you.

I agree with you on that, which is why I wrote my point on the religion.

Top man

reply to post by Sparta


Have you read eastern books? i've read numerous texts from my Buddhist and Hindu friends. I see similar patterns of being nice to one another. It's actually quite strange. The older texts all refer to dying and being punished for what you did. The newer texts refer to living a life of peace. I find Buddhism fascinating. The newer (around 3000 BC) philosophy refers to us being one with everything. You, me, my computer, the tree outside, etc are one and the same. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Not in the scientific sense but in the metaphysical sense.

Let's say I punch you. Is there any harm to me? No but humanity is harmed in that it just witnessed pain. The effect is humanity emulating my actions and harming another. Harming an animal for no good reason causes similar effects. So by punching you, the effect is humanity punching each other. I caused humanity harm.

Furthermore if I am nice to you, humanity copies my action and be nice to one another. Pretty much all our actions are a collective. It doesn't matter if it's me or you or someone else, each person action contributes to humanity. Think of it like a pool. If someone pees in it, the whole thing is polluted. But if we continue to drop chlorine into it, we have a clean pool. This is deep thinking.

I'm currently reading the Koran and other islamic text. I have to say, this isn't like what the media is telling us. The term jihad means internal struggle. That we must continue to work hard to be good and this is a constant struggle. According to ancient islamic text, men should not consult with another men on these struggles. Each must struggle with oneself to understand one's inner true self. This could be through mediation or life experiences. Always be yourself and never be another.

I find reading the source to be quite liberating from what the news media is telling me.

reply to post by someguy0083


Not fully read them, I've glanced through and read certain parts in consideration to whatever it was I was researching at the time but it's my next plan to read the Hindu Scriptures, the Vedic Literature, Shruti etc, it amazes me what I've read so far and it's not even a large portion to what there is left to read, your onto it mate, its amazing ay, cant get over it sometimes what it really all says and teaches, Buddhist teachings is something I really want to learn about, I plan on going to Tibet and learn it all in it's real life, what I've read so far made my mind up about that, their teachings are amazing. yeah your right thats the idea I like and try and live by, I came by it myself and reading this stuff just expanded it yano. The karma thing really is great to read up and study, it makes me think so differently, and even feel.

I lived with a Muslim family when I was in Wellington and it opened me up to it all, from what my idea of the Koran and Muslim faith in general was ridicules, I agree with you completely the way they make it out to be its down right disrespectful and I get so raged listening to it all after my own experience with it, I haven't read much of the Koran though but I'd say I'll read it before the Indian lit.

The body dies the Soul moves on... The soul works on the Quantum level and your body is merely a vehicle with your Mind/Nuerons as the inferface between the two states.

So to follow the evolutionary path, one day we will more than likely skip the physical stage or just simply fabricate a body for the purpose, when required............. BUT then could we not already be at that stage??

Originally posted by DreamerOracle
The body dies the Soul moves on... The soul works on the Quantum level and your body is merely a vehicle with your Mind/Nuerons as the inferface between the two states.

The soul is but another name for consciousness, which is an emergent property of our brains. When the brains are cut from oxygen supply for a long enough time, consciousness ends, and that's it, game over. Feel free to provide objective evidence to the contrary.

Your Soul is the unseen data or energy in plank scale... A theory I find is quite plausible.

And to clarify.... "Fabricate", meaning what we perceive to be a body.

reply to post by RBinOkc


One of the tenets of evolution is survival of the fittest, which implies death of the unfit.

Evolution would cease as a functional process as longevity increased.

As a Christian, I believe that God is changing us towards a goal.

We are to become like Christ. As we don't truly know exactly all the attributes of Christ, other than that He was incarnate for a period, we can only guess at what wonders God has planned.

Also, the structure of DNA (the four bases organized into 3 unit codons) is the same for all living things that we have seen so far. It seems to be a basic building block of life that doesn't change/evolve. The data encoded into it does change.

Our lifespan has been set by bio-engineering thru hybridization by alien entities. It is well documented in the old testament bible/sumerian texts.

Originally posted by Demigodly
Our lifespan has been set by bio-engineering thru hybridization by alien entities. It is well documented in the old testament bible/sumerian texts.

Neither the Bible or any Sumerian texts I have seen (and I have read the Bible and several Sumerian texts) mention anything in regard to this?

Please show your sources. Otherwise I call BS on this.

Originally posted by DreamerOracle

Your Soul is the unseen data or energy in plank scale... A theory I find is quite plausible.

edit on 5-4-2012 by DreamerOracle because: (no reason given)

The Planck Scale is energy at approximately 1.22 × 10^19 GeV.

At this phenomenal energy level, how could it remain unseen?

reply to post by chr0naut


It's all in the translation. Biblical scholars have horrendously misinterpreted the passages of the Hebrew bible, and dismissed the ancient Sumerian texts as myth. Case in point - the dogmatic take of scripture being monotheistic. The bible speaks of MANY 'gods'. Therefore it's polytheistic. As the pagans believed, as ALL ancient civilizations believed.

Originally posted by RBinOkc
If I'm correct and please correct me if I am wrong as I'm not that educated with this type of stuff but doesn't evolution eliminate weak traits? Doesn't evolution make us bigger, faster, and stronger?

Not exactly. Evolution allows for variations that can take advantage of potential changes in the environment. A new virus that pops up, for instance. Or a change in the weather. Sometimes that makes us bigger and stronger. Sometimes it makes us smaller, furrier, and more wiry. It gives us options. It doesn't make us any one particular way. That's why living forever is a bad idea. It's inflexible.

Originally posted by Sparta
I mean yeah course it's possible, with evolution anything is I am told, we might even loose a toe or some crap at some point.

On a more important note how can you be a Christian and believe in the theory of Evolution..

Don't they completely contradict themselves?

is it possible God / or Gods created evolution, seems plausable

My father died, and came back to life after about five minutes. A good friend of mine, a physician, died and also returned. They had similar experiences. There definitely is another level of consciousness attained once we shed our Earth-bound vessels. Both saw green skies, immense crystal buildings, millions of variations of color (on the floors inside of certain buildings), and participated in non-verbal communication. Entities which were part man, and animal. Although my Dad was gone for five minutes, he felt as if he'd been away for a week.

Who wants to live forever? Not me. I'm certainly not in any hurry to "check out," but I'm looking forward to what's in store in the future.

reply to post by chr0naut

I should rephrase that...... Unseen to most and those that don't grasp the idea.

Needless to say Evolution, Living Forever.... We're already there it's just part of the terminology thats wrong in the OPs question.
A Question About Evolution And "BEING Forever" Living is just something we happen to be observing.

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Originally posted by Sparta

I just read the Bible for a different reason, not for the religious view but the historical view, when you can read the meanings of it all and understand it how it was meant to be they really are impressive stories and historical accounts.

And this is one of the Keys in which the Scriptures are understood.

They are a Historical Record of Adam, through to Christ.

There is also the Spiritual aspect.

There is also the Prophetic.

As for the query, we do not live forever, due to SIN. It's plainly expressed throughout the Scriptures.

Prior to Noah's Flood, (aka the Great Flood, as great as it may or may not have been), mankind lived for exceeding long periods of time.

Adam lived nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
Seth lived nine hundred and twelve years: and he died.
And all the days of Enos were nine hundred and five years: and he died.
And all the days of Cainan were nine hundred and ten years: and he died.
And all the days of Mahalaleel were eight hundred ninety and five years: and he died.
And all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died.
And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died.
And all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy and seven years: and he died.

Now this was lifted and edited down from Genesis 5. Enoch is also not included, since NOWHERE does it indicate he died. He may well still be alive, although that may seem outlandish.

With this noted, there is no indication this "Life Span" enjoyed by Adam and his Generations was exclusive to Adam and his Generations. There is nothing to suggest it was, Biblically speaking, so one could also surmise this was also the same for the Races, created on the 6th Day.

It is also not clearly addressed whether death was introduced due to the events which transpired in the Garden, and afterwards with Cain's pride taking control on the eastern side of the Garden, or not. It is clear that death was associated to The Man, and his Generations, but prior to the choices made by Eve, Adam, and Satan's Spawn, Cain, death is clearly recorded as a way of life.

It was during the Mythic Period, of the gods, and their "taking" of the Daughters of man, that we are introduced to yet another "adjustment" in lifespan. The graced life Noah's Forefathers was reduced to some 120 Years.

After the events at the Tower of Babel, it was reduced further to 70 Years or so.

Now some may suggest these Biblical Accounts are outlandish, and unbelieveable, but I would suggest this wasn't just a Biblical Account.

Google `` Lore and Legends of the Immortals ``

You will find links to Asian, Greek and Native American stories. There are of course the Celtic and Norse tales. There are also the tales found on the darker side when dealing with the Bloodthirsty Vampire Tales.

So this isn`t a Bible Tale, standing alone without any support.

Even the Gilgamesh Epic touches on this.

Just thought it should be noted, and highlighted, that the Live Spans we see today pale with what our ancestors once had.

Scriptures indicate in the coming years, we will again, live a 1000 Years. Forever could be just after that. Who knows.

Ciao

Shane