Everyone DOES understand why there can't be an Armed Population?

reply to post by optimus primal


A follow-up to my post on Switzerland.

Check out their ratios. (Linked above).

As of 2007, Switzerland had a population of about 7,600,000. This would put the rate of killings or attempted killings with firearms at about one for every quarter million residents yearly

1 / 250,000

And everyone has guns.

reply to post by optimus primal

they will when you're using them to insult another member. nice edit there by the way, taking out the part where you directly called him a fool.

actually, I never edited out anything. Where I called him a fool was censored. However, it was not me calling him a fool. It was God calling him a fool, through His words in His Holy Bible. You looking to join the club?

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff

And as for foreign invasion

Thats just say it did happen, somehow another country completely annihilates the worlds most advanced, combat ready and experienced military, whats your handgun gonna do except make you more of a target?

It's going to get me a shiny new foreign-made assault rifle... or machine gun... or rocket launcher.... or whatever he's carrying when I get him isolated and bushwhack him. That, in turn, is going to get more "stuff" for my friends, who shall be fruitful and multiply, radiating the joy outwards.

Americans will never get it, guns are not good and if you need one (besides for hunting) then there is something really wrong with your society

Bricks are not "good", either, but when you need one, nothing else will quite do. We are aware that there is something wrong with our society. We're hoping to get that fixed. It's hard going, what with all these knuckleheads wanting to go the other way, and trying to disarm us to make that easier for them.

reply to post by abecedarian


I also thank you for those statistics! I love it when the anti-gunners get to read the truth! The 2nd amendment of the constitution gives us the "right" to bear arms. Our forefathers put that in the constitution for a reason!

Originally posted by KJV1611
reply to post by optimus primal

 

they will when you're using them to insult another member. nice edit there by the way, taking out the part where you directly called him a fool.

actually, I never edited out anything. Where I called him a fool was censored. However, it was not me calling him a fool. It was God calling him a fool, through His words in His Holy Bible. You looking to join the club?

are you threatening to be discourteous towards me via bible quotes? 1. i frankly am unsuprised 2. go for it, i'll alert it and you'll yet again claim ats is censoring you. quote obviously you should take a T&C refresher course. if all you can do is insult people, via bible quotes or directly, then you're really not going to fit in long.

reply to post by imherejusttoread


I do not want to require a safety course to prevent crimes from happening...that's just ridiculous. How could a safety course prevent a crime? It can't, so the thought-crime argument of yours doesn't hold water. I never stated that a safety course would prevent crime. Wish it could, but it can't.

The purpose of a safety course is to create a more responsible, safe gun owner population. So, you don't want people to learn how to use a gun responsibly? Okay. You do want criminals to be able to own weapons as long as you own one? Awesome. You are against age restrictions and don't care if folks mishandle weapons around kids? Fabulous!

Basically, you don't care about the safety of those around you, as long as you got yours, right?

Will criminals get guns even if it's against the law? Yes, they will and if they are found to be in possession of an illegally gotten weapon, then they are off the streets. Personally, I don't give a crap about a pedophiles constitutional rights, I guess that makes me in the minority around here.

Originally posted by optimus primal

Look at the countries that are higher than you, Estonia, Brazil, Thailand. the US is meant to be a civilised country for fecks sake!!!!!!!!!!!! None of those other places really deserve that title.

And total gun deaths not per capita but total, you guys are still winning by a mile

"civilised"? brazil isn't civilized? i'm sure they'd be shocked to hear that.

as for per total, what do you mean? since firearms were invented? since the creation of any of the countries in the statistics? per capita is what is relevant, because it equalizes the number via a smaller sample rather than total population, if you did it as total population it would skew the numbers. per 100,000 rather than trying to normalize the data between a country with 300,000,000 people versus one with 30,000,000. clearly you don't know how statistics works or much about what you're talking about in this thread. please educate yourself.

Brazil is considered a 3rd world country.

When I say total I mean the exact figure not a watered down statistic.
The answer is around 40 a day!!!! and thats Murders not suicides, not police shootings but murders.

The fact your not shocked or disgusted by this just shows that we are on completely different wavelengths.

Enjoy your guns dude

reply to post by optimus primal


Who in the world said I wanted to "fit in"???? The last thing I ever want to do is fit in. You stay in your preconditioned mold, and I'll stay free of your Huxley mind set.

Please read and reply!

For anyone to make the statement, saying citizens are too dumb to possess a firearm must also be pleased with the logic behind that statement. Being:

A total sum of [an entity] falls under a generalization of [Capable or incapable].

Under this assertion there is no middle ground. Apply this logic theory to other circumstances/scenarios in order to prove its ground as a theory. Just as we would do with a formula. The result?

We have a sun therefore every planet has a sun.
A politician accepts a bribe from a lobbyist therefore every politician should be assumed as fallible to bribery.

This theory will NOT compute.

In conclusion, Most humans are capable of lawfully possessing a piece of technology (or art) that can be used as a weapon.

A good example is: There are some whose financial dilemma requires them to instill fear with the use of a gun (MISUSE!), for example gangsters or drug dealers. These mislead and impoverished people will acquire a firearm regardless of what their governments political stance is on the weapon.

If our government limits firearms, only those who abide by the law will surrender their weapons. These are the good guys. These are the people I want in possession of a firearm.

Therefore government intervention on this issue is not necessary. Also the argument is now changed.

The New controversy is not whether or not to make firearms illegal, rather what reforms must be made to change the society that uses violence and addiction as a market. This is now about the war on drugs. Which has proven a failure for we are considering a nation-wide ban on a defensive tool.

I own a DPMS Oracle AR-15 5.56/.223

I own this weapon because it is newly brought to my knowledge that I have purchased a house near the infamous gang MS-13.

Too take my rifle is to unscrew the deadbolt on my front door.

I hope my logic has helped as I am in a continuous attempt to refine it for medschool!

Looks like tyranny is winning to me despite an armed populace. Gun's are worthless if people are afraid to use them they don't shoot themselves afterall.

I do support the Constitutional freedoms we, as US citizens, enjoy.

At least, those that we have left.

I Do Not support the idea that every citizen needs, or should be, armed with a gun.

Nor do I support the abolishment of the 2nd ammendment.


Pardox? Not really.


I support freedom of (or From) religion), as well. Doesn't mean I have to believe in, or practice, any particular religion.


Is some one armed with a gun any safer than some one not so armed?

Not really, in my opinion.

Think about it. Even if you have a gun, you are only protected from injury or death If you are able to Fire your gun, effectively, BEFORE the other guy can disable or kill you!.


A gun won't help you if you're murdered in your sleep. Gun won't help you if it's safely locked in the closet when a thug breaks into your house while you're watching the tube. Gun won't save you if you can't get it out of your holster before the bank robber shoots you while you're standing in line for the teller.


And all the training in the world won't keep you from getting seriously "ventilated" that one time the "other guy" gets the jump on you.


Face it, unless you are walking around, at ALL Times!, with your piece pulled and your finger on the trigger, 9 times out of 10, the guy who's got his gun out already, will shoot you before you can shoot him!

And since you've got a gun, guess who just became his/her "First Target"?

And if Everyone is walking around with their guns drawn, how is ANYONE going to know which "dutifully armed Citizen" isn't actually a thug with an invincibility complex (or a death wish)?

"Well, If they outlaw guns, only Outlaws will have guns!"

Fine! And then anyone caught with a gun will automatically (by definition) be considered a Crimminal!

And what can we do to crimminals?

We can Lock Them Up So The Don't Get To Hurt Law-Abiding People.

Think of all the murderous thugs we could lock up just because they were carrying a gun! The courts wouldn't have to bother about protecting the civil rights of the crimminals, while their victims suffer; We'd get them BEFORE they could make any victims.


As to the arguement that "We need our guns to protect our Freedoms from Tyrants/Government Oppression/Foreign Invasion"...Seriously?

Do you really think even your Desert Eagle is any match for an air-to-ground missle? Or a cluster bomb? Or nerve gas?

Any Government that wants to kick your puny a$$, will do so. And they will do it without a care in the world about how much it costs to accomplish, if they want to badly enough.

Governments have the means (money, resources) to do whatever they want, whenever they want; That's what makes THEM Governments! And you...

Cannon (which is really just a Bigger Gun, right?) fodder.

reply to post by The Sword


When the shtf, I hope that your superior intelligence will save your ass. Personally, I believe that I will fare better because I am an intelligent person with a GUN!

Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by TsukiLunar

 

True.

It seems like the less intelligent people are, the more fearful they become. This will lead them to stock up on guns/ammo.

O RLY?

What's YOUR IQ, if I may ask?

Get back to me on that, and I'll give you mine. I just have to get to the file first, and it's under about 3 cases of ammo...

It seems that the less intelligent people are, the farther they reach, trying to find correlations that just aren't there.

Originally posted by optimus primal

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
reply to post by DocHolidaze

 

LOL

just read your Avatar message

I have 2 guns one for each of ya

Like most Americans who want guns you use the BS line of safety and security but the truth is it makes you feel like more of a man.

My leg to stand on is the statistics, forget 3rd world countries and look at countries like the US. We all do fine without guns and Im sure youd all get by as well

except you only count countries that support your position. that's called bias. i gave you an unbiased top of the world firearms deaths per capita. the US isn't even in the top ten. we have ten per hundred thousand people. five not counting suicides. again, that's lower than drownings per year per capita. should we ban water as well?

i also love it when people such as yourself are reduced to insinuating that firearms are only desired by men with small egos, kind of like big trucks. it is amusing to watch as such people throw mud and claim to still be in the right

LOL

I love it when people like you resort to ridiculous statements like "water kills people we should ban it"
In no possible way is any statement like that intelligent or relevant.

Wanting a gun for protection is one thing but many of you seem to revel in gun ownership, owning 6 guns isnt about protection its a fetish

Originally posted by Unit541

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
Ironically its YOUR irrational fear of guns that is your reason for carrying a gun. see what I mean about it being self defeating.
I dont have any fear of guns let alone an irrational one. Never really hear of any gun deaths where I am apart from criminals killing other criminals and thats extremely rare not a daily occurance

It's not a fear of guns, its a fear of crime. Assault, robbery, home invasions, car jacking, rape and murder are what most of us have very rational fears of. Guns are a means of defending ourselves against these possibilities. Taking our guns away isn't going to make any of the above less likely to happen. Seriously, wake up and smell the real world.

First of all violent crime rates are down yet media reporting of violent crime is up, once again these are all fears that the rest of the world has yet we get by without guns.

Maybe you need to wake up because it seems like having guns isnt making them less likely to happen either

I don't think anybody realizes that even without guns, and let's even say hypothetically that criminals wouldn't have access to them either, people would still make makeshift guns using pipes and explosive powder and things like that. We already have the knowledge of how to make guns so there's no going backwards, and the government couldn't do anything about that.

Originally posted by Magnum007
Unless you want a society like this:

Perhaps people should stop thinking about getting guns and trying to take things into their own hands... Scared people with guns = innocent people dying...

Anarchy will ensue and most of the scared, overweight, sick, old, and spineless population will not make it (I think that makes for about 80-90% of the people down there)... How's that for an assault on civil liberties? They wouldn't survive... Hmmm...

But it's ok, some people 300+ years ago wrote a paper that said that a WELL TRAINED ARMED MILITIA so it's all good that today the words are twisted and turned to suit their needs and wants... Kinda sounds like another document that is constantly twisted and turned... THE BIBLE... What cults are to religion is what people think of gun "entitlement" to the constitution...

Don't take your own life and upping your chances of survival into your own hands? Continue to be a "scared, overweight, sick, old, and spineless" individual - so you Can get taken advantage of?

History shows us that "scared, overweight, sick, old, and spineless" people who pick up a gun do not go around killing innocent people.

People want to say that the U.S. Constitution is misread and the Right to Bear Arms doesn't apply to individuals, only a well trained militia BUT have you looked up gun laws from your own States Constitution?

My States Constitution - Louisiana (like most of them) do support the Individuals right to bear and use arms and is worded much clearer than the U.S Constitution. It was last updated in 1974 and Article 1 Section 11 reads;

The right of Each Citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged, but this provision shall not prevent the passage of laws to prohibit the carrying of weapons concealed on the person.

senate.legis.state.la.us...

People don't listen to these uneducated naysayers when they tell you the Right to bear Arms doesn't mean what you think it does. Look up your own States Constitution to get the scoop.

Even if the US Constitution were in error The Federal laws do not trump local laws. This is a Big Myth. Federal Laws only supersede local laws when the situation involves multiple state jurisdictions.

reply to post by bobs_uruncle


Seen plenty of the world and only drink purified filtered water

Congrats guys, compared to Sth Africa America is safe.
Compared to western developed countries that it should be compared to its not

um there will always be guns in the states i f they take them and out of my cold dead hand there will be some russian or mexican gangster selling them back to us

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff

Originally posted by optimus primal

Look at the countries that are higher than you, Estonia, Brazil, Thailand. the US is meant to be a civilised country for fecks sake!!!!!!!!!!!! None of those other places really deserve that title.

And total gun deaths not per capita but total, you guys are still winning by a mile

"civilised"? brazil isn't civilized? i'm sure they'd be shocked to hear that.

as for per total, what do you mean? since firearms were invented? since the creation of any of the countries in the statistics? per capita is what is relevant, because it equalizes the number via a smaller sample rather than total population, if you did it as total population it would skew the numbers. per 100,000 rather than trying to normalize the data between a country with 300,000,000 people versus one with 30,000,000. clearly you don't know how statistics works or much about what you're talking about in this thread. please educate yourself.

Brazil is considered a 3rd world country.

When I say total I mean the exact figure not a watered down statistic.
The answer is around 40 a day!!!! and thats Murders not suicides, not police shootings but murders.

The fact your not shocked or disgusted by this just shows that we are on completely different wavelengths.

Enjoy your guns dude

who said i'm not disgusted by murder? certainly not me. and i'll thank you not attribute things to me i never said.that's a low brow tactic.