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Can a space of absolute nothing be created?

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posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 05:58 PM
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All ideas and comments welcome.

If (and that's a big IF) there was nothing before the Big Bang, then is it possible to create a space of absolute nothing? I have an idea to test this out, and I'll leave it up to all you smart people to tell me why it will or won't work. And, if you have an idea of your own, I'd LOVE the read about it.

My idea is to take two metal shafts and put them together so that the ends are completely flush with each other. Then, cover the shafts where the ends meet in a sleeve of metal or something that will never collapse under pressure, and that will never allow any air in. Grabbing onto the exposed ends of the shafts (with pulleys or something more powerful) can the shafts be pulled away from each other within the sleeve? If the shafts can be pulled away from each other, what would be in the space between them? My thinking is that either the shafts can't be pulled apart, or with enough power to separate the shafts the space between them will be filled when atoms are literally ripped from the shafts and sleeve.

Hopefull the pic below will help to clarify what I'm trying to explain. Hopefully.






posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 06:02 PM
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just give Detroit some time,its on its way



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 06:05 PM
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i could show u a space of absolute nothing but id have to get an x-ray of tht space between my ears to post :-)

regarding ur post ive no idea....but gd question....i like to see intelligence shown in questions n answers on this site if anyone knows these guys most probably do :-)



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 06:05 PM
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nothing doesn't exist



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 06:10 PM
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isnt this just another way to create a vacuum?

You can already suck all of the air from a space providing the containers material can take the it, you are going about it differently.



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 06:19 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


You might be able to remove all the air, but not the energy: Zero-point energy. So technically, no, you can't remove everything.



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 06:19 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


The big bang doesn't imply that everything came from nothing



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 06:33 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


Technically if there was nothing in that space there would still be something because it has a name...



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 06:34 PM
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Originally posted by jiggerj
...or with enough power to separate the shafts the space between them will be filled when atoms are literally ripped from the shafts and sleeve.



Lots of this, actually.
The technical term you want to read about is outgassing.
Some small amounts of various atoms will leave the surface of the metal and start to contaminate your vacuum.
Anything you do to try to seal your metal shafts together for a better fit by using lubricants or sealants will just make the problem worse.

Creating a low pressure is easy
Creating a very low pressure is hard.
Creating a perfect vacuum is probably impossible. Its always that last 0.01% that gets ya.



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 06:43 PM
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The space between atoms is not empty. It is in fact something. We dont know exactly what it is but it is not nothing or empty. Nothingness or emptiness is the background the universe is made upon much alike a stretchy rubbersheet in which a 3d universe can be made.

best way to see this is to think of nothingness as water and atoms as ice cubes. The ice cubes are made from the water much alike how our universe is as energy is made up from the very emptiness of space.

Another way of seeing this is to look at say earth and mars. IF nothing is truly nothing than what is it that seperates the two planets. If nothing is truly nothing then shouldnt the two planets be touching each other??As there is nothing to seperate the two?
edit on 4-4-2012 by minor007 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 06:48 PM
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Can a space of absolute nothing be created?


Your title is contradicting with all due respect, in that, "a space" is something. "Nothing" as I feel you are trying to create in your model would be (as has been mentioned), more or less simply a vacuum, or a space void of any air or other matter, but again, it is still space.

Trying to wrap one's brain around what "nothing" is or ever was hypothetically, is a rather difficult feat. I truly don't believe you could create "nothing", or, it would be something.



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 07:18 PM
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Originally posted by jiggerj
All ideas and comments welcome.

If (and that's a big IF) there was nothing before the Big Bang, then is it possible to create a space of absolute nothing? I have an idea to test this out, and I'll leave it up to all you smart people to tell me why it will or won't work. And, if you have an idea of your own, I'd LOVE the read about it.


Your question is subjective to how you define space. Its all theoretical, however the prevailing theory is that before the Bigbang/singularity, spacetime didn't exist.

Its not as if the universe expanded into a void, the bigbang was the creation of the void.





Using the definition of "space" as defined by Einsteins relativity....


Spacetimes are the arenas in which all physical events take place—an event is a point in spacetime specified by its time and place. For example, the motion of planets around the sun may be described in a particular type of spacetime, or the motion of light around a rotating star may be described in another type of spacetime.

The basic elements of spacetime are events. In any given spacetime, an event is a unique position at a unique time. Because events are spacetime points, an example of an event in classical relativistic physics is , the location of an elementary (point-like) particle at a particular time.

A spacetime itself can be viewed as the union of all events in the same way that a line is the union of all of its points, formally organized into a manifold, a space which can be described at small scales using coordinates systems
Spacetime/Basic_concepts

The awnser is that at a quantum level totally empty space is not possible...

In quantum field theory, the vacuum state (also called the vacuum) is the quantum state with the lowest possible energy. Generally, it contains no physical particles. Zero-point field is sometimes used as a synonym for the vacuum state of an individual quantized field.

According to present-day understanding of what is called the vacuum state or the quantum vacuum, it is "by no means a simple empty space", and again: "it is a mistake to think of any physical vacuum as some absolutely empty void."

According to quantum mechanics, the vacuum state is not truly empty but instead contains fleeting electromagnetic waves and particles that pop into and out of existence
Vacuum state


As counter-intuitive as it sounds, all the available evidence supports quantum field theory.

I hope this helps.

edit on 4-4-2012 by Drunkenparrot because: syntax



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 07:21 PM
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This should answer your question...



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 07:54 PM
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Originally posted by UberL33t

Can a space of absolute nothing be created?


Your title is contradicting with all due respect, in that, "a space" is something. "Nothing" as I feel you are trying to create in your model would be (as has been mentioned), more or less simply a vacuum, or a space void of any air or other matter, but again, it is still space.

Trying to wrap one's brain around what "nothing" is or ever was hypothetically, is a rather difficult feat. I truly don't believe you could create "nothing", or, it would be something.


LOL I gave that same argument elsewhere, upon which I was shown that in a cubic foot(?) of outerspace there are just a few measly atoms and a whole bunch of nothing. I still don't believe that 'Nothing' can fill a space. So, what you're saying is that in my example the two shafts cannot be pulled apart without SOMETHING filling the space between them. I think so too.



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 08:04 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


nothingness is all of space. even where you are right now there is nothing. a void. the only reason you experience it is as something is because of what you are projecting yourself onto that space or how you yourself are connecting to that space. this is how powerful each and every single one of us is (and we don't even know it)

long story but i have been in a place of nothingness or a void for nearly five years now. i have been cut off from source/ going through ascension/ blah blah blah. no matter where i go i feel nothing. i shouldn't say i feel nothing cause i feel a whole lot but i cannot connect to the physical world lets say. i cannot connect to or experience any space in a way that most of us take very much for granted. although it has been pure torture it has given me great perspective on the nature of life, reality, space, etc...

so can you create nothing? i think it is the natural state of all space. but every single thing is absolutely without a doubt created from nothing.



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by jiggerj
All ideas and comments welcome.

If (and that's a big IF) there was nothing before the Big Bang, then is it possible to create a space of absolute nothing? I have an idea to test this out, and I'll leave it up to all you smart people to tell me why it will or won't work. And, if you have an idea of your own, I'd LOVE the read about it.

My idea is to take two metal shafts and put them together so that the ends are completely flush with each other. Then, cover the shafts where the ends meet in a sleeve of metal or something that will never collapse under pressure, and that will never allow any air in. Grabbing onto the exposed ends of the shafts (with pulleys or something more powerful) can the shafts be pulled away from each other within the sleeve? If the shafts can be pulled away from each other, what would be in the space between them? My thinking is that either the shafts can't be pulled apart, or with enough power to separate the shafts the space between them will be filled when atoms are literally ripped from the shafts and sleeve.

Hopefull the pic below will help to clarify what I'm trying to explain. Hopefully.








Not a bad theory...good post.

I've kind of always thought that life creates it self and once space is created life occupies it instantly.



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 08:48 PM
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Independent of any event, are abstract mathematical principles.
the square roots of −1
The concept of zero,( 0 ), the concept of enumeration (1...), the concept of difference (-) etc

I believe these to be systemic, and not emergent properties of reality.

I would imagine the most primordial concept to be self negating difference (not) ein sof
which by negating it's self can cause enumeration to begin. (not not)

This then offering a framework for time/space/matter/motion

'creating nothing' is an oxymoron
edit on 4-4-2012 by rom12345 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 10:05 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


If you are containing the space in a vessel, the space will always have something in it. Look up "vapor pressure."



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 10:25 PM
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Hi again, jiggerj. You ask interesting questions.

Please don't be disappointed that most of my answers are negative. This is how we make progress in science – arriving at the truth by progressively eliminating what is false. Every time we do that, we learn a little more.

And with that said, à nos moutons...

First of all, there was no 'before' before the Big Bang. Time (or whatever it is we perceive as time) also had its beginning in the Big Bang. This is hard for people to understand intuitively because, although we can conceive of nonexistence, we cannot picture it. But without time, there can be no 'before' and 'after'; therefore the question 'where did the universe come from?' is meaningless. So are the questions 'what happens after the universe ends?' and 'what is outside the universe'?

There are some models in which our universe is one of many, or in which our universe exists inside a larger universe. If this is so, then we can legitimately ask the above questions – but only from the point of view of an observer in the larger universe that contains this one! The questions and their answers will still have no meaning for us in our universe.

Now to your actual question. Can a space of 'absolute nothing' be created? The answer is no. Apart from the difficulty of creating a perfect vacuum, which has already been explained, there is a much deeper issue; a vacuum is, quite simply, not nothing. It is empty space, and space – oddly enough – is something. It expands and contracts, stretches and snaps back like elastic. Particles pop into existence from it, and pop back out. It has energy, at least in a theoretical sense.

Your proposed experiment is designed to remove all matter from an area of space. There are practical, engineering reasons why it won't work, but even if you overcame these and somehow created a perfect vacuum, the vacuum would still be full of space.



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 10:29 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 




Can a space of absolute nothing be created?

I think it may happen in the beginning ...only in the very beginning


2 add ...the absolute means 2 not soluble ...2 which are like a basic definition for space ..the may come out of just -nothing
edit on 4-4-2012 by nii900 because: (no reason given)

so..from the other side of timespace or spacetime its not possible as 'nothing' per se is not created it stays as it always was - nothing
edit on 4-4-2012 by nii900 because: (no reason given)




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