ICC: No Cast Lead probe as PA not a state

Palestine has been trying to be recognized as its own statehood, which is nothing new, we're all aware of this. The UN continues to stall any and all decisions whether to recognize Palestine as its own state and Israel is dead set against them becoming their own state. So Palestine, as always, is stuck between a rock and a hard place. With that, PA has asked the ICC, the same ICC that wants to go after Kony, to investigate the deadly operation known as Operation Cast Lead that began in December of 2008. Are you familiar with said operation? If not, here's some info about it to get you caught up,

en.wikipedia.org...

The Gaza War, known as Operation Cast Lead (מבצע עופרת יצוקה‎) in Israel and as the Gaza Massacre (مجزرة غزة‎)[36][37][38] or the Battle of al-Furqan [the criterion] (معركة الفرقان‎) [39][40] in Gaza and by Hamas was a three-week armed conflict that took place in the Gaza Strip during the winter of 2008–2009 which started on December 27, 2008.[41] Israel's stated aim was to stop rocket fire into Israel[42] and arms import into the Gaza strip.[43][44] After the beginning of the conflict, Palestinian groups continued firing rockets in response to what they characterized as "massacres".[45] Israeli forces attacked police stations, military targets including weapons caches and suspected rocket firing teams[46] as well as political and administrative institutions in the opening assault, striking in the densely populated cities of Gaza, Khan Younis and Rafah.[47]

An Israeli ground invasion began on January 3. Infantry commanders were given an unprecedented level of access to coordinate with air, naval, artillery, intelligence, and combat engineering units during this second phase. Various new technologies and hardware were also introduced. On January 5, IDF forces began operating in the densely populated urban centers of Gaza. During the last week of the offensive (from 12 January), Israel mostly hit targets it had damaged previously and struck Palestinian rocket-launching units.[14] Hamas intensified its rocket and mortar attacks against civilian targets in Southern Israel, reaching the major cities of Beersheba and Ashdod for the first time during the conflict.[48][49][50] Israeli politicians ultimately decided against striking deeper within Gaza amidst concerns of higher casualties on both sides and increasing international criticism. The war ended on January 18, when Israel first declared a unilateral ceasefire, followed by Hamas' announcing a one-week ceasefire twelve hours later.[4][5] Israel completed its withdrawal on January 21.[51]

The conflict resulted in between 1,166 and 1,417 Palestinian and 13 Israeli deaths, 4 from friendly fire.[52] In September 2009, a UN special mission, headed by the South African Justice Richard Goldstone, produced a controversial report accusing both Palestinian militants and Israeli Defense Forces of war crimes and possible crimes against humanity, and recommended bringing those responsible to justice.[53] In January 2010, the Israeli government released a response criticizing the Goldstone Report and disputing its findings.[54] In 2011, Goldstone wrote that he no longer believed that Israel intentionally targeted civilians in Gaza.[55] The other authors of the report, Hina Jilani, Christine Chinkin and Desmond Travers, rejected Goldstone's reassessment.

The last paragraph above is the one you should really pay attention too. War crimes and crimes against humanity according to a UN special report were committed by both Israeli IDF and Palestinian militants, over 1,000 Palestinians were killed while only 13 Israeli deaths occurred, 4 from friendly fire...de dee deeee. Of course, when the accusation of war crimes and crimes against humanity were brought up Israel scoffs at that notion, because as always, Israel can do no wrong. Another good site that breaks down the numbers of those killed, Fatalities during operation "Cast Lead"

Palestinians who did not take part in the hostilities and were killed by Israeli security forces ( not including the objects of targeted killings). Total = 764

Palestinians who were killed by Israeli security forces and it is not known if they were taking part in the hostilities. Total = 32

Palestinians who took part in the hostilities and were killed by Israeli security forces. Total = 351

Back to the article at hand, the ICC has turned down PA's request to investigate the accusations of crimes against humanity during this conflict. The ICC states that because Palestine is not a recognized state they will not investigate and even accuses PA that this was a cheap trick by them be recognized as a state, . Israel welcomed the ICC's decision to do nothing.

The Amnesty International report titled "Israel/Gaza - Operation 'Cast Lead': 22 Days of Death and Destruction"

Israeli Defense Ministry of Foreign Affairs -The Operation in Gaza - Factual and Legal Aspects

www.jpost.com...

The prosecutor of the International Criminal Court announced Tuesday that the court will not accede to a 2009 PA request to investigate allegations of war crimes during the 2008-2009 Gaza conflict.

In a written ruling, prosecutor Luis Moreno-Ocampo said that the court cannot investigate the PA’s allegations because the court only has jurisdiction over recognized states.

The Office of the Prosecutor noted that while Palestine has been recognized as a state in bilateral relations by over 130 governments, by UN bodies and by other international organizations, the UN General Assembly has granted the Palestinian Authority the status of “observer” and not “non-member state.”

Related articles,
rt.com...
latimesblogs.latimes.com...
www.anphoblacht.com...
www.rttnews.com...

edit on 4-4-2012 by Swills because: (no reason given)

I think the reasoning of saying they aren't a state is a little weak and wimpy...but I agree with the final decision. I mean we're talking about the same Gaza conflict right? The one where the Israeli Defense Force took the SHOCKING step of texting and dropping leaflets across the entire area to WARN people that attacks were coming and what direction to go and be AWAY from the danger.

What more could Israel have done in that case, short of send out escorts to physically help the civilians out of their homes? Heck..that would have been compared to Nazi's with the trucks in the Warsaw ghetto.

Israel has done some raunchy stuff..and they should stand to account for some of it but this, in my opinion, wasn't one of them. They could have done without all the White Phosphorous in that little conflict. Israel seemed to like using the stuff just a little MUCH for being deep in civilian populations

.....but Palestinians can ease up on the rockets into civilian housing while we're at it. Those suicide bombings into pizza parlors and public buses are downright rude too...

I'd *LOVE* to see probes into war crimes there someday. It has to cover *BOTH* sides though. No reasonable person should question the fact that BOTH sides have people that should stand for War Crimes trials in the Hague if the world had any real justice. (Both means PLA and Hamas officials standing in the same Court Room as top Israeli leaders.)

And once again the ICC is shown to be a politically motivated tool.

Surely, any international body tasked with investigating war crimes should do so, irrespective of who committed them or who was on the receiving end? But no, as with other organisations, the UN being the biggest, they wriggle out of their responsibilities with carefully worded charters and semantics. It simply boils down to cowardice on the part of those who run these institutions and shows the lack of impartiality.
They'll set up kangaroo courts and give themselves pats on the back each time they prosecute someone the western powers want prosecuted, but their cowardice and bias shows through when they pull stunts like this. How can we ever take these bozo's seriously?

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Was this the same war where Israel got their asses spanked by a bunch of "rock throwers"?

reply to post by Swills

Palestine has been trying to be recognized as its own statehood, which is nothing new, we're all aware of this. The UN continues to stall any and all decisions whether to recognize Palestine as its own state and Israel is dead set against them becoming their own state.

Actually it is not correct. Israel twice suggested own statehood to Palestinians (unlike,say, Jordans and Egyptians) but Palestinians found the conditions unacceptable.
Recently Palestinians attempted a unilateral creation of Palestinian state - without any Israeli agreement nor conditions - and this was blocked by Israel because it is a direct violation of Oslo agreements that started the process of Palestinian independance.

Also, your numbers for civilian losses of Plestinians are off. Hamas themself stated that more then 600 militants were killed.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Yes, we are talking about the same conflict, and you're right, Israel gave out fair warning that they will strike via leaflets and phone calls. Did people heed these warnings? I'm thinking they did but at the end of the day not everyone listens to said warnings, for whatever their reasons may be, remember Katrina? That said, it doesn't rule out that crimes against humanity were committed by both sides and need to be investigated. Palestine is more than willing to let the investigation occur, Israel isn't.

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


The conflicts between Palestine and Israel and statehoods have been on going since Israel was created. This is nothing new. And as for the numbers themselves, which are you talking about? The Wikipedia source or the statistics source? Don't tell me I'm wrong, I'm just reporting whats already been reported.

reply to post by Britguy


A few things to note -
* - Israel is not a signatory to the ICC, meaning the ICC has no authority / jurisdiction inside Israel.
* - Palestinian leadership accepts the ICC.

I would wager the reason behind Palestinians position is to take advantage of the charter for the ICC. If one of the states in question is a member of the ICC and the other party is not, the ICC claims they can investigate. Just so long as one nation is a member.

Absent that the ICC has to be invited by the country if they are not a signatory.

Last the ICC is not a part of the United Nations - Its a completely separate entity. The Rome accords adopted some changes that allows the UN to refer cases to the ICC. Other than that its its own entity.

Originally posted by Juggernog
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

Was this the same war where Israel got their asses spanked by a bunch of "rock throwers"?

You'll have to remind me which war Israel has ever been "spanked" in. They've CHOSEN to end a couple fights early for political reasons and when they said stop, the fighting stopped. That pretty well tells me they didn't lose a thing. They simply chose to stop fighting. If the fighting kept on after they chose to stop...then, well, we'd have quite a case to say they were thrown off the Battlefield.

If Israel ever loses a war, ANY WAR, there won't be an Israel left. Period. End of Story. They aren't in a position where peace treaties and quarter shown will be something they can hope for. I think even Hamas has made it clear to the point of painful that IF ever given the slightest chance for success...they won't stop until the land is devoid of living Jewish bodies. Quite literally.

Originally posted by Swills
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

Yes, we are talking about the same conflict, and you're right, Israel gave out fair warning that they will strike via leaflets and phone calls. Did people heed these warnings? I'm thinking they did but at the end of the day not everyone listens to said warnings, for whatever their reasons may be, remember Katrina? That said, it doesn't rule out that crimes against humanity were committed by both sides and need to be investigated. Palestine is more than willing to let the investigation occur, Israel isn't.

Well, as I noted in another post, I'd be happy to see War Crime trials. Now you mention Palestine is more than happy to see them while Israel isn't. Why might that be? Well... I'd say it has something to do with the fact that not once...EVER...have the Palestinians endured any harsh treatment from the International Community for THEIR end of this very nasty fighting happening over there.

Should Israel face the music? Oh hell yes..and I have NEVER said otherwise. That music just has to be sung to an audience, no a solo act. There are leaders in both the West Bank and Gaza City who ABSOLUTELY need arrested and brought to face the same court as Israeli leaders...AT THE SAME TIME.

They've BOTH killed civilians and they've both done so...at times...with reckless abandon. There is a difference though. The Israelis have killed civilians by ACCIDENT. C'mon.... killing the population isn't HELPFUL and any military man will say this. Israel isn't being humanitarian about fighting because they love Palestinians...they don't need WORSE problems from NEW highly motivated fighters looking for revenge

Palestinians on the other hand target civilians to the EXCLUSION of Military targets or those who COULD fight back in a nose to nose fight. Settlements are rocketed, sniped or mortared from a distance in hiding and those who DO walk among Israelis hide and push a button in their pocket before murdering people in cold blood.

So.. BOTH sides need their leaders to stand on charges for crimes in the fighting....and until they BOTH can expect to see that happen, without institutional bias..I don't blame Israel one bit for laughing at the very idea.