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Property owners, would you be ok with "affordable housing" in your neighborhood?

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posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by juleol
The main problem start when they overdo it and collect all "affordable housing" in just one area. I think things would be better if it was spread out instead of giant apartment complexes filled with low income apartments.


Never thought about that, that does seem to be a good idea actually.




posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 04:30 PM
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reply to post by mayabong
 


Hm. Already been tried. Several units in most large apartment complexes were designated as Section VIII units, thinking if it could be spread around it would help certain situations.

This was two decades ago. It didn't work. I won't give the reasons.

edit on 4/4/2012 by BellaSabre because: Giving the reasons would not be good for ATS. lol.



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 05:48 PM
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OMG diversity. GASPS!@~#~!@~!@~

*dies



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 05:50 PM
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Originally posted by mayabong

No my post is more about realism. Affordable housing and the things that come along with it, do tend to make property values fall.


You're right.

Property values though are kind of like the stock market in that they fluctuate on speculation. The vast majority of the population is going to speculate that property values where section 8 housing is will decrease. Therefore, it will. the problem is that the speculation is based on the perception of the people who live there, and that's it. They don't take into account that there won't be an infrastructure built to accommodate all the new residents. Like good schools and jobs.

This isn't just about "bad people" moving in. You can have that housing project filled with the best people around, whatever their skin color, but if you don't educate them and give them opportunities for employment, they'll probably turn bad in time.

To answer your question more directly......no. Not in my case because there are no opportunities for jobs in the area I live in for the people who would need section 8 housing.





posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 06:03 PM
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Building affordable homes is in direct competition with the "McMansion" groups.

Affordable homes lower housing prices because they are competition, NOT because of who lives in them.

Something for all you peeps who signed up for a lifelong mortgage.
A few years back I worked on an affordable homes construction site. The build cost for each home was just 28k yet they were sold for 200k. This HIGH price was to ensure the other non affordable homes could be sold at an elevated price.

When you buy a home its true value is one third the price, the rest is for the banks.



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 06:21 PM
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Everybody who needs "affordable housing," or section 8, or whatever, is a complete waste of your space and should just be thrown on an island or something. Am I right or am I right? I mean come on, none of them give a crap about life, if they did they wouldn't be poor, right? I swear that is how some of you make it seem.

Would you like like to learn something new? Yeah, I know you wouldn't, but that's just too bad, you're going to. Some people that need "affordable housing" aren't the scum of the Earth and do not want to destroy your neighborhood or leech off of you to survive. Some of us just want to have a roof over our children's heads while we bust our @ s s es in school trying to land ourselves into a position where we will hopefully no longer need assistance such as "affordable housing."

My wife and I both started life with nothing, and we certainly are not alone, there are many others in this world in very similar situations. We did have a child early, we were 18 when our son was born. I wont sit here and deny or whine and cry about that, we made the mistake of having a child at such an early age, and we should be the ones to have to deal with that. Neither of us really "wanted" children at the time, and we certainly weren't financially ready for children, but sometimes life deals you a bad hand. We chose not to look at the situation like it was going to ruin our life or anything like that, we figured that if we were going to have a child we might as well be responsible and love and raise our child.

Anyway, we were living in one of the cheapest apartments we could find, it wasn't such a great neighborhood, but at the time we didn't have a vehicle and neither of us could seem to find a job that paid more than minimum wage. We did this crap for about four years. Working for damn near nothing, continuing to try to find better work. The problem was, unlike a lot of middle class people who have parents or grandparents or somebody to help them out with a vehicle or a place to stay until they can get things in order, we didn't have any of that. With the little money our family had, we couldn't afford a vehicle, so we really couldn't look out of town for a better job. We did this for four years because my wife's mother had us absolutely terrified to go to school because she wad drowning in student loan debt and she always told us not to go to school because the debt would destroy us, and things like that, and well, we listened.

Well eventually my wife got pregnant again, apparently the birth control shot that she was having every 90 days had its effects abolished my an antibiotic that my wife had taken. Live and learn. My wife was the only one of us working at the time, and when it came closer to time for the new baby to pop out she started to have complications with the pregnancy and had to quit. I could not find work anywhere, I had been doing a small little internet business thing, making about $400 additional income every month, and sometimes repaired, customized, and built computer and gaming consoles. That was not enough to pay the bills and we lost our place. My wife and kids went to live with her mother for a while, but I could not stay there.

So at this time we knew we had to do something. I convinced my wife that going to college wasn't the end of the world. I told her that we were already at the bottom, we wouldn't really have any reason not to be able to complete school. You see, her mother was doing very well in school herself when she went but she had to quit and find full time work because she was a single mother. I know, the loans are a "death trap" and all of that, bt what other options did we have? Rob a bank? Start selling drugs?

It has been almost three years since we lost our place and my wife and kids still lie with her mom. We are finishing our Sophomore year at the local university, she has a 3.7 gpa and I have a 3.4. I was able to get a very crappy full time job making $0.20 over minimum wage last Summer and even with that and the fact that we get multiple forms of financial aid based on our grades and whatnot, we both are taking the full amount of federal student loans in order to pay bills, we still could not find a place to rent because they all said that I did not make enough at my job and they can't accept any kind of financial aid. Government assisted housing continues to screw us, some will say that they can't take college students, others have put us on very long lists and when we get close to the top they for some reason either take us off or send us right back to the bottom, it has happened multiple times.

Why is it that responsible people with children can't get this assistance when they need it, but drug addict parents who trade food stamps for drugs can live completely rent free without even having to make an effort to get some kind of training or work? My mom lives in a section 8 place, I know it happens. And why is it that many of you see me as the same?



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 06:53 PM
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I mean come on, none of them give a crap about life, if they did they wouldn't be poor, right? I swear that is how some of you make it seem.


This. A thousand times this. But it's cool we'll see what happens when the class war actually involves weapons and not just words. You know? When finally the masses of proletarians are forced to rebel because artificial oil shortages cause gas to be 30 dollars a gallon and the rich are still driving around in their suvs with big smiles and full bellies while the "useless" welfare recipients can't even buy a 10 dollar loaf of bread. because they have to use all of their money to pay a 1000 dollar rent payment for a one bedroom apartment. You think those numbers are exaggerations? Just wait...just wait.

edit on 4-4-2012 by boot2theface because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 06:55 PM
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reply to post by doomedtoday
 


I hope things work out for you and your family.



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 07:07 PM
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Originally posted by boot2theface


I mean come on, none of them give a crap about life, if they did they wouldn't be poor, right? I swear that is how some of you make it seem.


This. A thousand times this. But it's cool we'll see what happens when the class war actually involves weapons and not just words. You know? When finally the masses of proletarians are forced to rebel because artificial oil shortages cause gas to be 30 dollars a gallon and the rich are still driving around in their suvs with big smiles and full bellies while the "useless" welfare recipients can't even buy a 10 dollar loaf of bread. because they have to use all of their money to pay a 1000 dollar rent payment for a one bedroom apartment. You think those numbers are exaggerations? Just wait...just wait.

edit on 4-4-2012 by boot2theface because: (no reason given)


Just cause a person might want themselves and their kids to be safe, you guys turn it around on them and say that they must hate poor people. You want this utopian world that just isn't happening. You can't take some black people from over here, some mexicans from over there, and put them in the middle of a bunch of white people and expect everything to be hunky dory. I wish that were the case but people are weird, different groups are raised differently with different beliefs, different habits, different desires.

edit on 4-4-2012 by mayabong because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-4-2012 by mayabong because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 07:18 PM
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Originally posted by mayabong

Originally posted by fictitious

Originally posted by boot2theface



Fully integrate society?? No thanks.


Yeah, because when we're all separated and competing things get better for everyone right?
reply to post by boot2theface
 


We are MORE integrated now than in the history of the united states. You want Utopia! This is not attainable. Not because everyone doesn't think its great-because its in our dna to seperate ourselves. Even the same species of bird from Ohio doesn't want to group up with the flock from Montana.

We are a nation of more more more. When will we ever be content??? Sometimes it is good to let things be.


Your post reminded me of this.


I've never seen that video. Thank you for sharing.


While watching it I noticed that the audience clapped when the host made a comment and hardly ever when Ali did. Obviously, as in every live taping, there is a "applause" sign that is turned on by the producers. The audience laughed when Ali made his case. People laugh without control - and when they agree with something/it strikes a similar chord in them. The audience basically agreed with Ali's opinions but only clapped on command to look like they agreed with the host.

Birds of a feather flock together. Whether that be from religion, race, wealth, sexual preference, etc. I have no problem with anyone of any sect of any of those. We make friends because we LIKE someone. We don't befriend someone that we do not have similarities with. I have friends of all walks of life, but they too would agree with Ali.

IMO
When it comes to "fair housing", if it were me that needed it - I would be incredibly THANKFUL for the opportunity to even have a roof over my head. I would NOT expect it to be in the "nice" side of town, nor would I want it to be. For someone that legitimately needs "fair housing", this does not mean "cheap place to live for the rest of my life". It is an opportunity for someone to get back on their feet and later be a fully contributing member of society.

I think it SHOULD be on the "not so great" side of town to give people more motiviation to do better in the first place. Having government housing next to perfectly landscaped suburbia gives them incentive to STAY and never rise up and raise their kids to think they are entitled to the same!

We are entitled to nothing but the air we breathe...the rest is up to us to get for ourselves.
edit on 4-4-2012 by fictitious because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 07:28 PM
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Originally posted by mayabong

Originally posted by boot2theface


I mean come on, none of them give a crap about life, if they did they wouldn't be poor, right? I swear that is how some of you make it seem.


This. A thousand times this. But it's cool we'll see what happens when the class war actually involves weapons and not just words. You know? When finally the masses of proletarians are forced to rebel because artificial oil shortages cause gas to be 30 dollars a gallon and the rich are still driving around in their suvs with big smiles and full bellies while the "useless" welfare recipients can't even buy a 10 dollar loaf of bread. because they have to use all of their money to pay a 1000 dollar rent payment for a one bedroom apartment. You think those numbers are exaggerations? Just wait...just wait.

edit on 4-4-2012 by boot2theface because: (no reason given)

Just cause a person might want themselves and their kids to be safe, you guys turn it around on them and say that they must hate poor people. You want this utopian world that just isn't happening. You can't take some black people from over here, some mexicans from over there, and put them in the middle of a bunch of white people and expect everything to be hunky dory. I wish that were the case but people are weird, different groups are raised differently with different beliefs, different habits, different desires.

edit on 4-4-2012 by mayabong because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-4-2012 by mayabong because: (no reason given)


I ask again, just because I would like to hear your opinion on the matter, what does affordable housing have to do with race?

And as far as my "unattainable" "Utopian" dream goes, It's just socialism man. just plain ole' socialism, and with the viewpoints i've seen in this thread humanity does have a little collective maturing to do before it is realized, but that doesn't mean it's unattainable. Still I say, just wait..
edit on 4-4-2012 by boot2theface because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-4-2012 by boot2theface because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 07:33 PM
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reply to post by doomedtoday
 


Doomed,

Your situation sounds pretty crappy, and I'm sorry. You seem like one of the decent people out there that DOES want to do better for themselves. I commend you for this. You have to admit though, life is about how you play your cards - not always what you are dealt. I was dealt pretty terrible cards in my life, but I rose up. I believe you can too.

Your first mistake was trusting others. You trusted whoever it was that told you not to go to college because of debt. Then you trusted a birth control shot...and possibly birth control the first time. Never, ever trust anything or anyone when it comes to YOUR life. I've been through similar situations, so if you want any advice message me.

Back to housing - let's say you are 35 and doing great living in a wonderful neighborhood. Would you agree/be cool with what is proposed in the op? No one is trying to make everyone that needs affordable housing look bad. We know there are exceptions - like you. But many, many people want their hand out and never want to do any more with their lives.



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 07:42 PM
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Originally posted by boot2theface

Originally posted by mayabong

Originally posted by boot2theface


I mean come on, none of them give a crap about life, if they did they wouldn't be poor, right? I swear that is how some of you make it seem.


This. A thousand times this. But it's cool we'll see what happens when the class war actually involves weapons and not just words. You know? When finally the masses of proletarians are forced to rebel because artificial oil shortages cause gas to be 30 dollars a gallon and the rich are still driving around in their suvs with big smiles and full bellies while the "useless" welfare recipients can't even buy a 10 dollar loaf of bread. because they have to use all of their money to pay a 1000 dollar rent payment for a one bedroom apartment. You think those numbers are exaggerations? Just wait...just wait.

edit on 4-4-2012 by boot2theface because: (no reason given)

Just cause a person might want themselves and their kids to be safe, you guys turn it around on them and say that they must hate poor people. You want this utopian world that just isn't happening. You can't take some black people from over here, some mexicans from over there, and put them in the middle of a bunch of white people and expect everything to be hunky dory. I wish that were the case but people are weird, different groups are raised differently with different beliefs, different habits, different desires.

edit on 4-4-2012 by mayabong because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-4-2012 by mayabong because: (no reason given)


I ask again, just because I would like to hear your opinion on the matter, what does affordable housing have to do with race?

And as far as my "unattainable" "Utopian" dream goes, It's just socialism man. just plain ole' socialism, and with the viewpoints i've seen in this thread humanity does have a little collective maturing to do before it is realized, but that doesn't mean it's unattainable. Still I say, just wait..
edit on 4-4-2012 by boot2theface because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-4-2012 by boot2theface because: (no reason given)


Are you saying that race isn't a factor when people apply for Section 8?



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 07:47 PM
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reply to post by mayabong
 





Are you saying that race isn't a factor when people apply for Section 8?


Shouldn't be. Why would it be?



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 07:59 PM
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reply to post by fictitious
 


IF, and in my opinion, with the way my life has always been, that is a very BIG IF, I ever did live in such a community, I would have absolutely zero issues with "affordable housing" in the neighborhood. I would have written more in my original comment but I ran out of words. As a member of such a community, one of the first things that I would want to do is make sure that the government will have proof that the people that would be moving in are honest people that are either young adults trying to get started in life or people who have fallen on hard times. You see, the problem with a lot of these kinds of places today is that you have many of those worthless types that I mentioned toward the end of my comment living in the places. I would want there to be some kind of legitimate requirement that the people living there were either furthering their education in some way or actually working. I would also expect that criminals would not be allowed to live there. However, I wouldn't have a single issue with honest people living in the neighborhood. The problem with the U.S. is that we want to let the junkies neglect their children while tax payers provide their drug currency which is supposed to feed the children, while they get to live rent free watching tv all day long when there are many deserving people out there that don't have any help because they actually give a damn. We need more "affordable housing" for people who actually care about their life, and forgot about those who don't. I just want to say one last time, that I would have absolutely no issues have "affordable housing" in my neighborhood, if I lived in such a neighborhood. I would only ask that it be housing intended for people who are actually making an effort to get somewhere with their life.



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 08:06 PM
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reply to post by mayabong
 


The link is a NYT article that requires membership which I refuse to do; so, unfortunately I did not get to read the article before replying. My reply is based on the thread title and OP statements alone, my apologies in advance.

I have dreampt for over twenty years of using my own personal property to help homeless people. To me, it would be one of my last bucket list dreams fulfilled. My spouse is my polar opposite though and would never agree.

My dreams do NOT include those sterile, ugly government housing units though. Those buildings are so depressing that it's easy to see why their tenants have no hope.

I'd love to get a random set of tent city families from various cities across the country and have a melting pot in my own backyard.

First, I'd need plumbing and bathroom facilities for each "lot" so that the campers would have access to fresh clean water, showers and toilets.

Next, I'd need a community kitchen that could be re-purposed as a community center after all the homes were built.

Third, I'd like to see them work together to build eco-friendly, unique homes with gardening space. I love Carter's project where they build homes for each other.

Last, when my backyard was fully utilized, I'd like to expand.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for prisons in my backyard ... I'm admittedly a NIMBY! In my county, the prisons are all way out at the apex of rural roads and not near children and schools. I don't think prisons belong near schools or children. I like the way my county does that.



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 08:11 PM
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reply to post by boot2theface
 





Since when did affordable housing become about racial integration?


Someone doesn't know history very well... No worries, most don't.

One of the main goals of government involvement in housing has always been racial integration since 1968 at least. It was part of the civil rights movement. It is not a secret or anything. It is a stated and observed goal. A simple fact of history that you can go verify.

People are upset because it hasn't panned out as planned.

This link might help you get up to speed. A google search with a few obvious keywords wouldn't hurt either...

www.civilrights.org...


The courts have recognized that this "affirmatively furthering" duty requires HUD to "do more than simply not discriminate itself; it reflects the desire to have HUD use its grant programs to assist in ending discrimination and segregation

edit on 4-4-2012 by sageofmonticello because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 08:23 PM
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Thanks for the link, sage, I really had no idea that sort of thing happened. I think it may be because of my past, living in assisted housing. All I did was search for Section 8 housing to read in detail about it. It said nothing about race.

I'm not trying to attack anyone personally it's just I feel very strongly for the poor. I don't think many people really realize how bad it can get.
edit on 4-4-2012 by boot2theface because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 08:37 PM
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reply to post by doomedtoday
 





I would want there to be some kind of legitimate requirement that the people living there were either furthering their education in some way or actually working.

I would have absolutely no issues have "affordable housing" in my neighborhood, if I lived in such a neighborhood. I would only ask that it be housing intended for people who are actually making an effort to get somewhere with their life.

I completely agree with your post. The only problem is, if we had such requirements (as I also would want), it would be discrimination. We live in a nation that finds it "discrimination" against people to ask for proof of citizenship by showing ID to vote. The requirements to be approved for this housing is loose...and it is intended to stay that way. That is the reality, no?



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 08:39 PM
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Unfortunately race does play a big part on section 8. Trust me, and I mean this in no racists way whatsoever, a single black mother can get assistance before a single white mother can. It should not be based on skin color at all, it should be based on the persons effort. If you have a black family of which one parent is working and the other i currently going to a trade school and you have a white family of which the mom works at a dead end job to support a piece of trash dads alcohol habit, then the black family should be offered the assistance first. At the same time if you have trashy black family and a hard working white family, the white family should be assisted first. Something like this should not be based on the color of skin, it should be based on which people applying seem to be the most likely to be making an effort to pull themselves out of the situation. As far as drugs go, I don't think it's a question f who is more guilty, black people or white people, I think it's pretty even honestly. Its just that the piece of crap white people seem to prefer meth and the piece of crap black people seem to prefer crack. Why don't we just kick all of the junkies out and make room for people that actually care about themselves.



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