ATS - What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. True or False?

Philosophy - The old saying - What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
Psychology 'experts' are rather bi-polar on this issue. (no surprise there)
Have YOU found the saying to be true or false? Emotionally ... spiritually ... physicallly ...
Do you care to share with us all why you believe the saying to be true or false?

Those who have had to endure watching a child die horribly from cancer .. are you stronger for it or did something in you die with that child? Did your faith and/or your sanity strengthen or weaken?
Those of you with PTSD ... do you feel stronger because of it or weaker?
Those of you with chronic illness .. do you feel stronger because of it or weaker?
Those of you enduring family members with mental health issues ...
Those of you who have had serious financial misfortunes ...
Those of you who have had your homes burn down ...
Those of you who have been through hurricanes or tornados or floods ...

ATS - Were they 'lessons learned' or just part of the misery of the 'human condition'?
Are you stronger or weaker ... or maybe nothing inside you changed??
ATS - What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. True or False?

Psychology Today - Whatever Doesn't Kill You Makes You Weaker

Friedrich Nietzsche, the German philosopher, famously said: "That which does not kill us makes us stronger." This notion found life beyond Nietzsche's--which is ironic, his having been rather short and miserable--and it continues to resonate within American culture.

One reason is that suffering, as Freud famously recognized, is an inevitable part of life. Thus we have developed many ways to try to ease it--one of which is bestowing upon it transformative powers (another is by believing in an afterlife, of which Freud disapproved; still another is coc aine, of which he was, for a time, a fan).....

....But the bulk of psychological research on the topic shows that, as a rule, if you are stronger after hardship, it is probably despite, not because of the hardship. The school of hard knocks does little more than knock you down, hard. Nietzschian--and country song--wisdom notwithstanding, we are not stronger in the broken places. What doesn't kill us in fact makes us weaker.

Developmental research has shown convincingly that traumatized children are more, not less, likely to be traumatized again. Kids who grow up in a tough neighborhood become weaker, not stronger. They are more, not less likely to struggle in the world. Trauma with lasting effects And the effect on adults is generally similar ....

ON THE FLIP SIDE - From 2010-

Physorg News - Study Confirms: What Doesn't Kill You Makes You Stronger

... a new national multi-year longitudinal study of the effects of adverse life events on mental health has found that adverse experiences do, in fact, appear to foster subsequent adaptability and resilience, with resulting advantages for mental health and well being....

"Our findings revealed," he says, "that a history of some lifetime adversity -- relative to both no adversity or high adversity -- predicted lower global distress, lower functional impairment, lower PTS symptoms and higher life satisfaction."

Then there is this from the article .. which sounds to me like the people experiencing adverse situations 'just got used to them' or 'gave up caring' rather than 'got stronger'. Unless you all think that giving up caring or getting used to adversity is somehow 'stronger'?? Looks to me to be more like .. putting a lobster in a boiling pot of water verses putting a lobster in a pot of water and slowly turning the heat up .. he doesn't notice the slow turn up as much until it's too late.

The team also found that, across these same longitudinal outcome measures, people with a history of some lifetime adversity appeared less negatively affected by recent adverse events than other individuals

Psycnet ... PDF available for 'Whatever doesn't kill you .. '

Flouride wont kill you and wont make you stronger.

Lithium, barium, radioactivity from scanners, mercury in vaccines etc....

reply to post by TheMindWar


There is physically stronger/weaker ... like chemo making you weaker or a vaccination making you stronger.

And there is emotionally stronger/weaker .. like going to war and coming out with PSTD or not.

And there is spiritually stronger/weaker ... like being a person of faith having to watch a child die of cancer - do you believe God treated that child well or does your faith go out the window and you no longer believe in a loving God. (Athiests would probably say 'no more belief' makes you smarter while Christians would probably say 'no more belief' makes you weaker)

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. True or false?

From my life experiences that sayings not really true.
It should be "what doesn't kill you makes you numb"

ive had a pretty ruff life by normal standards.
many mistakes and a lot of bad stuff beyond my control.
i should have been dead on a few occasions.
i do agree with whatever doesn't kill you.....
i try to learn from the past,and i'm still learning,so this i think makes me stronger!
peace

Yes it makes you stronger. Yes it makes you numb. Yes it can make you biased also. When you go through absolute horror, it changes you, but it has the ability to make you stronger. It is we who make the choice of how the trials of life will affect us, we can choose to become strong, or become something else.

It makes you adapt or you get run over again by the same train.

Also known as "experience".

OP I have tried 3 times to reply to this thread. I wonder if you understood when you asked your questions the pain it might cause, examining such intensely emotional experiences, even from the distance of time, is extraordinarily painful. Words fail.

I watched my Son die of cancer. It wipes you off the face of the earth. I was *gone* for 2 years. I continued to function, and do the things needed to sustain myself and others, but I have no memory of huge parcels of time.

When the unthinkable happens, you have three choices, cope, go crazy, die. Coping is something of a misnomer, it is more like stumbling forward by putting one foot in front of the other. Coping makes it sound somehow skillful and deliberate, it isn't. It is merely not choosing the other two. The other two can look very tempting when the pain is so bad you are howling like an animal.

I think most of us don't realize how strong we are. Humans are resilient. Like an old Timex watch commercial used to say: "It takes a lickin' and keep on tickin'".

As for faith, mine was strong before, during and after. God and I have a relationship, deep and abiding. I do not question or blame. When I was young and tragedy struck, yes I railed, over time I got my answers and came to grips with my anger.

I do not think we get stronger or weaker. I think we learn our limits and we learn that we can survive going to them. We gain the knowledge of our strength.

I know that someone is going to read this and need this, whoever you are, I love you, hold on, just keep putting one foot in front of the other.(hug).

Ive had a ruff ride for most of my life abuse,rejection from my parents. But it destroyed me I am just a shadow of my former self. I have no self confidence no self belief I can not trust people. The only emotion I show now is anger and rage. I believe its maker you stronger with the right people around. In my case this was my grandparents but they passed away a long time ago now. this is hard for me because i am 6 foot 250 pound man that when you look at you see a normal big block but the strain it taken on me has rudest me to a scared child.

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. True if you got the right people around you and false if you haven't.


sorry for any spelling or grammar mistakes i am dyslexic.

reply to post by FlyersFan


most interesting thread title I have seen in a while. S n F. Back in few to comment

I think it totally depends on your outlook, and how you personally respond to adversity. Some personality types cower in fear under adversity, while others actually thrive under it, are even bored and depressed when not being constantly challenged. I suppose it varies person to person. like pretty much all of psychology.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Seeing how the spirit is immortal, I do see us as getting "stronger" (wiser, really), because nothing can truly kill you. Always growing, always evolving. The body may die, but the information it gained gets uploaded into the vast energy of the universe, aka the "super-conscious". The body comes from the earth (we're made up of various minerals and elements, "star dust"), and returns that material back into the earth when it dies, so even that is never really gone, it's basically just recycled. The consciousness however permeates everything, so wisdom gained from an avatar (body) will always exist - memories are forever, they also say. Even if humans became extinct, something else would take it's place, but the story of humanity is still forever engraved in our consciousness.

The pain feels SO real... time feels SO real... death looks SO real... all for the sake of experiencing it. I've personally gone through a lot of ups and downs which I don't want to get into. I look upon all of that simply as pages in the story of this person that I'm living as. A story would be horribly boring if nothing happened in it, and unfortunately (or fortunately for the sake of the story) a lot of what happens is not always nice. Contrast, Yin and Yang; balance in this plane of existence is necessary to bring out experiences. We're the conscious observer, and life is our drama - but we take it one step further by actually being the characters in that drama as well.

That's my point of view on it.

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger True or False.

Well both actually. Being in a life I need to carry my S on my own, well it did make me stronger yes. But I can't imagen how that would have killed me. The question is about the ego of you. Did your ego change because of it. You will never know if it is stronger or not because it is (or should be) constantly changing. But how do you see it yourself?

It just changes awareness and values and is up to you to decide if it is stronger or not.
Psychological seen, "it didn't kill me so I am stronger" is a more postitive reinforcement that is socially accepted compared to "my life was a mess". Something that kills you is an outside force, My life was a mess is an inside job. (why does this OUTSIDE force wants to kill you? Why did YOU get your life such a mess?) You are placing the negativity on a subject outside your ego.

Well it is difficult

reply to post by FlyersFan


Arguably it could be either.

Example, you contract a potentially deadly disease but manage to pull through it just barely. As a result you are now IMMUNE to this disease. The very first vaccinations worked on just this principle, you would be given a weakened dose of the disease and thus your immune system would get stronger.

On the other hand there's just some stuff you don't get over. Ending up paralyzed from the neck down after a car accident might make you stronger, in some abstract psychological/personality way or it might just leave you trapped in your own body and struggling to continue life without being able to move under your own power.

It was Nietzsche who said that one eh? I have always added to that statement as follows, "What ever doesn't kill you or leave you crippled, makes you stronger." I could probably add "crippled or disabled", regardless, the number of things that harm people seems endless and you don't bounce back from all of them. Maybe it should be, "What ever doesn't kill you leaves you a survivor." I'm putting that in my signature. You guys can use that one, just credit it to me, MSB, please.

reply to post by FlyersFan


i enjoyed reading the op in the way u r puting it, i have the answer but it is a bit complicate let me start by the most short answer as it is clear already absolutely free

first, the true question to ask, is why, bc if the answer is nothing, then the question so the issue is true

if the answer is smthg, like u mean existing in best condition always then the answer cant b so it is nothing as any relative fake thing in evil times

to grasp the importance of a question to b true, is to know that what is true as truth is more then existing and always then more then a fact superiority, do a true question is by its fact dealing with superior existence facts
to care about dealing with superior existence facts is to b true but this is another crucial point not for here

now the question, what doesnt kill u makes u stronger?, is true issue bc it sounds not right so false, so as if u r bringing smthg that everyone repeat being as a fact of one life while objectively without meaning smthg particularly out of it, u disagree with

i confirm from my perspective it is a total evil creation of means, evil cant create but subjective powers which is actually life, the oness which is the way of liars to achieve looking as real from objective true existence rights

to prove what i said, this question is taken from the fact known, what u dont kill make u more existing, reversed as, what doesnt kill u, so giving all the energy of moves to oness, makes u stronger, again oness confirming being the source of anyone making its things possessions as hard in shapes to move, so it means that u never move so do not exist ever

now the fact what u do recognize existing even in moving away as else, increase ur sense of existing, that fact is right so may b true relatively

from truth conception superiority as being existence objective value,

when truth is free superiority and when truth exist so any is free superiority then else recognition existing even in moving away from increase the sense of being existing as true fact

it is a major point that radically prove in one sentence how oness is of course evil always, oness by definition do not recognize else concept while truth is only the else coming first bc only objective superior freedom exist, so oneself is more free as more positive still sense but else is more the true existing perspective bc objective is absolute freedom superiority

now again here im touching a point that do not concern this op, what it means that objective superior freedom is what exist in truth which is freedom superiority as the justification and the way key of always positive objective existence constancies

so what doesnt kill u make u stronger is evil fallacy will

anyone that mean to kill u is always there as stronger otherwise it could reach that far in absolute existence to perceive its ability to destroy u so superior to u in negative inferior terms, when as i said, what is truly superior is only what can b positive fact alone and mean else in superior perspective of objective truth superiority

so what can threaten u is what prove that u r not free and if u dont have an objective freedom right recognition then u do not exist and if u do not exist then u r nothing and if u r nothing while matter of facts objectively then u r in hell constancy, if u cant b nothing freedom what r u gonna do??

then what doesnt kill u, enslave u to force urself to b false positive sense, so evil ways

by using others and objective facts as things u can pretend through being more powerful existence since u didnt die yet and from what didnt kill u powers kept upon u

Originally posted by Iamschist
OP .. I wonder if you understood when you asked your questions the pain it might cause, examining such intensely emotional experiences, even from the distance of time, is extraordinarily painful. Words fail.

I'm very aware of what I was asking. And actually I'm looking for answers in this area myself. I'm thinking that the difficult life exeriences of people here might be helpful .. both to me and others reading. As always .. if you, or anyone else, doesn't want to participate for whatever reason ... that's understandable and so don't. I fully appreciate the answers people will be giving and where those answers are coming from.

At the risk of TMI ... I have chronic illness. Systemic. Progressive. My laundry list of physical ... um ... difficulties .. include Autoimmune disease (Sjogrens) complete with polyneuropathy including the face and tongue; untreatable glaucoma; degenerative disc disease; kidney stones, bursitis, and in the past I had severe sterilizing endometriosis which lead to a complete hysterectomy and oophorectomy.

I do NOT feel stronger because of these things. Not at all. With each new health issue I feel weaker and less in control and ... as was said by someone here .... less caring and more numb. I'm wondering if my response is the norm or if it is outside of 'What doesn't kill you makes you stronger' that everyone supposedly is supposed to be a part of. When I experience these things or when I see others experience them I do not feel stronger ... I feel pissed off that people have to go through what looks like unnecessary suffering to me.

As you all can see by what I posted in the opening post - professional psychology is split on this.

Originally posted by Iamschist
As for faith, mine was strong before, during and after. God and I have a relationship, deep and abiding. I do not question or blame. When I was young and tragedy struck, yes I railed, over time I got my answers and came to grips with my anger.

I believed in a loving Father-God. I was a praise-god person. What I've gone through has made me deeply question that. What I've had to go through has weakened my faith in Him .. not made it stronger. I'm seeing a lot of what looks like useless suffering .. for me .. and for a lot of other people. And I definately am questioning and blaming ... I know there is a God .. I'm just not sure anymore that He is who they say He is ...

So in this case .. that which hasn't killed me has weakened my faith.

reply to post by FlyersFan


If you interpreted my opening remarks as disparaging, I assure you that was not my intent. I am sorry that you focused on that and not the remainder of what I said. I can understand your struggle. I hope you find the answers you seek. Blessings.

Originally posted by Iamschist
If you interpreted my opening remarks as disparaging, I assure you that was not my intent.

Oh gosh .. not at all. Don't take my response as harsh or anything ...
I understand if people have a hard time answering. If they can't do it .. then please don't.
I am looking for an answer ... and you are helping. Thank you.

I am sorry that you focused on that and not the remainder of what I said.

I'm still reading through it and thinking about it. I didn't dismiss it at all.
And as I said .. I appreciate the answer ... thank you.