Australia " peacefully invaded" by 2500 Marines.

reply to post by Rosha

Join the club mate,we've been the US's largest aircraft carrier since 1942,with succesive governments toadying up to the American administration at every turn(with the exception of Thatcher).

You would expect countries like the UK to allow itself to be used by the US in this manner,but one country I would have put money on in telling the US where to get off would have been Australia,regardless of the damage any US military presence in your country will undoubtedly inflict on your regional trading alliances,Australia to me is the epitome of a country that lives by its own rules and to hell with what anyone thinks(in a good way!).You and your fellow Australians need to band together and show any "invaders" that it is a mistake to think that Australia will just roll over and take it.

With Juliar and the rest of the jokers in power that act like Obama's lap dogs and to hell with what the aussie population thinks this doesn't surprise me in the slightest. I haven't voted in the last few elections because none of the delegates were people I wanted to run the country. This round I'll definitely be voting just for the sakes of throwing Juliar and her band of merry men out of parliament. Bring on the election!

reply to post by Jace26


You have got to be joking. Taking your jobs? If anything the US will spend a fortune with a small contingent of marines. That money will go to Australian business's, farmers and just about everything else that one can spend money on. The repositioning troops in Australia is not all that much of a change but its a visible one as opposed to places like Pine Gap. The ability to respond to actions by China is common sense.

The US is planning to reduce forces in Europe and Japan because they're not needed or not wanted. Frankly I would prefer our forces have a minimum footprint, but the change in the strategic situation is one were trying to adapt to. And as far as a facility of 2500 marines is concerned as bases go thats miniscule. Even a small port would have a larger population of people from the nation that uses those facilities on a regular basis.

I certainly don't want to go were we're not wanted. But historically US overseas bases are a cash cow, for the host country. In the end of course the decision to be based somewhere is up to the government of that country. If you don;t want it, then let your representatives know it.

reply to post by Rosha


This is not an act of aggressive intent. Quit being a twat, you're overreacting way too much. We have tens of thousands of foreign troops from the U.N. using our national forests as training grounds, 2500 marines is a drop in the bucket compared to whats already invaded us and they're no threat to you because you've done nothing to us.

Originally posted by arbiture
reply to post by Jace26

 

You have got to be joking. Taking your jobs? If anything the US will spend a fortune with a small contingent of marines. That money will go to Australian business's, farmers and just about everything else that one can spend money on. The repositioning troops in Australia is not all that much of a change but its a visible one as opposed to places like Pine Gap. The ability to respond to actions by China is common sense.

The US is planning to reduce forces in Europe and Japan because they're not needed or not wanted. Frankly I would prefer our forces have a minimum footprint, but the change in the strategic situation is one were trying to adapt to. And as far as a facility of 2500 marines is concerned as bases go thats miniscule. Even a small port would have a larger population of people from the nation that uses those facilities on a regular basis.

I certainly don't want to go were we're not wanted. But historically US overseas bases are a cash cow, for the host country. In the end of course the decision to be based somewhere is up to the government of that country. If you don;t want it, then let your representatives know it.

I think you are misinformed as to the nature and extent of US influence and projection into our society and its 'welcome' here. Quite aside from the social issues of gangs junkfoods and media crap we dont want..regarding jobs:

www.theaustralian.com.au...

The mining sector here and our moronic government, are indeed intent on passing local jobs to US .workers.

On the other issues, we dont need monstano controlling our farmers...we dont need to take blood money from soldiers and so condone their actions against others.

We dont need a 'cash cow'. You cant 'eat' money and Id rather have dignity and self respect any day.

We already have the ability to respond to China and its isnt Americas way of doing business.

We are not a protectorate of the US..as we are not a vassel state to a war machine and globalist agenda.

When will America's 'interests' learn that you are not the boss of the world. You are not my leaders let alone world leaders i anything but killing and you are not responsibile for or to my freedom.
Your nations military and fears will not dictate my reality and the reality my children grow into and I will not be a corporate whore or collborator with mercenary armies if I choose not to be.

I have this wonderful gift of whatever God there is gave me called choice...and you cant buy that..influence that...manipulate that.. remove that..or undermine that gift, that right and responsibility I have to my own self.

While you can, for a time, influence the course of my nation via abuse of every good principle ever written, eventually, no matter what they do...no matter how many soldiers they send or dont.....we *are* Australian..and that means something here...so no matter how caught underfoot we get..we will not stay down for long.

You cant 'pay off' people to ignore atrocities...well..you can ..but that doesnt last and only the feeble minded fall for it. For all we are and are not down here...the majority are not a feeble minded people, we know exactly what is going on..and we are not all asleep.

I dont know how the Australian people will eventually rise up in their voice..but I do know that eventually they will and when they do it will loud, disrespectful, intentional, it will stand without waver and the message will be made very very clear.

I love Americans but not the military agenda of their leaders. In any case, under current unsustainable capitalist models that dictate permanent growth on a finite planet, and world population projections, the world is going to run out of resources very quickly. I'd prefer to have the yanks on our side when China comes-a-knockin'.

IRM

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by Rosha

 

This is not an act of aggressive intent. Quit being a twat, you're overreacting way too much. We have tens of thousands of foreign troops from the U.N. using our national forests as training grounds, 2500 marines is a drop in the bucket compared to whats already invaded us and they're no threat to you because you've done nothing to us.

As have written already, the act of agression here is clearly directed towards China. Please read the thread before you post so you dont appear so ignorant next time.

I have read this thread and have alot of mixed emotions over it. This may get long as there are lots of points I have pondered.

I can see the OPs point of view. I think it is primarily wrong, but I can see it. Historically American Service personnel have had high moral and ethical standards, and treated their host countries citizens well. Yes there are crimes, as any group of people (military or not) will have that subset in the group. But by and large American Service Personnel enjoy their overseas postings, spend money, and have a positive out come. Not only that, This would be a friendly country posting, invited by the host country, not an occupation. In friendly country postings, the troops are not in a high stress combat environment, and weapons would be locked up when not in use for training or deployment, it's a whole different situation. It would be difficult for some soldier to go on a shooting spree like in Afgahnistan because the weapons would not be as available as in a combat zone where you go virtually NO WHERE or NO TIME without them. Their posting is similar to the way they are posted stateside.

However; in the last 10 years we have had a change. We have been fighting the somewhat dubious "war on terror". Because our small, volunteer armed forces have been fighting this type of war we have run into some problems within the force. I don't know if there is a survey on this, or stats, it's my own "list" but I think it is correct.

1 Many of our servicemen and women have had 3, 4, and in some cases 5 or 6 combat tours. Many have seen too much and have the potential to "flip out". In previous wars, 1 or 2 tours of duty was the norm, and most people could readjust reasonably well. Not always the case now.

2 Because of the unpopularity of the war in the US, recruitment was way down (especially in the mid 2000's) and of course 50,000+ have been wounded, and thus the military (Army especially) has lowered there requirements to allow many with criminal records and/or gang affliliations to enlist. The moral and ethical base has been eroded down with a much more problematic group and I would guess that the increase in atrocities and rape is primarily from this group,

I don't know this for a fact, but I have a friend who is an Air Force Officer. She has said even within the US Air Force the quality of personnel has dropped dramaticly since 2001, and it has gotten so bad she had debated getting out. This is a career officer mind you. She did say she would perfer to work with the Marines instead of the Army or Navy, and even some of her own personnel. In part because the Marines have kept up most of their standards!

As far as fears of American Empire or comparing America to the Nazi's, that also brings me mixed emotions. My country is doing much that I don't agree with. I don't think it's America per se, I think the leaders of MOST western countries are sold out to multi national banks and coorporations. American, British, German, and many others. As a result the US Armed Forces do now appear in part to be the mercinary force to these multi nationals. I think many hoped this would change when Obama was elected, but has only become worse. It is disturbing, and I while I have never really bought into "NWO" conspiracies I now often wonder. As a Christian I think the situation does meld very well with many of the Christian End Time Scenarios' regarding the Global Government that will be in place before Christ's return (but that's another thread, there are many of them!)

Propehcy aside though, despite any Global conspiracy involving multi national groups who control through corporations, backed by the US and NATO armed forces there ARE indeed threats from both Islamic Extremism and from an Expanding China. To not see this is to stick your head in the sand. Threats that Australia and America will face, because those groups have their own agenda's which do NOT include democraticly elected governments. So, in the long run, a trip wire force of 2500 or even 32000 Marines is probably a good thing for Australia. The US had, for 50 years, upwards of 250,000 troops in Germany to deter the USSR. And relations with the Germans and the US Armed Forces were very good. A similar system with Australia should/would work the same.

I suppose finally, if you don't like the idea of US troops in your country. Elect a new government. Start a grassroots program to elect those that will tell us to leave. The US has left overseas bases before. The Philippines and Panama come recently to mind. Force levels in Germany are now under 50,000 and may drop to less then 10,000 except the Germans themselves are so used to the positive economic impact many want at least some troops to stay.

If that fails start an insurgency.....of course the US has 10 years of experience fighting one of those, and it isn't pretty, because then you MIGHT risk us running around like we have in Iraq or Afgahnistan.

Good day!

Originally posted by Melbourne_Militia

Originally posted by Rosha
reply to post by Melbourne_Militia

 

leaves me ashamed that both my grandfather and brother have fought and died for this country to preserve this place for a racist bigoted ignorant troglodyte like you.

.

edit on 4-4-2012 by Rosha because: (no reason given)

maybe you should go fight for your country then too?

and thanks for the compliment by the way, but what was racist that I quoted? please enlighten me.?

So you dont agree with the US troops being here, I get that. You dont agree with US foreign policy past and present, I get that too.

But to think that Australia is safe against a rising China is being naive and ignorant.

Australia is a large land mass.....huge wealth of resources with a very small relative population.....it is prime target for an ever expanding and growing China.

I stand by my previous comments....Id rather my children and grand children be speaking English than Chinglish or Chinese etc.

Which of the two evils would you rather? Dont think for a second that the safe and comfy lifestyle Australia has had upto now will always remain that way........

Spoken by someone who has HAD a comfy lifestyle in this country all his life no doubt. You seem to ignore that for many of us life here has been just as harsh as any other mean place on earth. Even so...knowing right from wrong isnt a matter of comfort - it is one of conscience and having one to start with - and if you think killing is cool so long as its not english speaking kids..then grow up.

I am not choosing between two evils you would like to me think are the only options on the table...not when I can choose for a million goods sitting in front of me every day. There are other ways..people are doing it every day by building better relationships maturing and rgowing past fear. That you think this is a 'weak' point of view or ideology to have is your loss..not mine.

Your fear of the Chinese is where you became racist...had you said..I dont want or like the Chinese way of life or censorship issues or their poltics...at least that would have been one thing but you didnt..' oh i hate them cause they speak a different language' ? Really? So you will accept and embrace a child murdering out of control mercenary group over a group who speaks a different language?

Hmms..ok..its a free country..so go right ahead and keep on thinking that way...your loss not mine.


I am fighting for my country..and do so every day. What are you doing?

reply to post by Rosha



"Its not going to stay at 2500 - they already plan up to 32k here and they are not just coming for exercises and leaving they are STAYING!

That is an invasion, that is called a 'foothold', that is a threat to our nations soverignty and places us at increasing risk of extremist attack..

WE DONT WANT YOU HERE!

That alone should be enough..but we had NO SAY in your arrival and wont ever get one.

And as for numbers..Ive seen what one f*cked up marine can do with his weapons just recently when he shot 17civillians for fun thanks... NO THANK YOU!"

You bought that crackpot story? Funny because one of the survivors of the incident came out and said that there were helicopters hovering over the town and more than just this one man. If you don't want American soldiers on your land, go to your government. They are the ones allowing them to come there. If that fails, well then I guess you'll just have to take up arms against them.

The Yanks are Commin!......run and tell the king......
Them Yanks will bring much needed babies to Australia....Your working population is aging....This a a fresh transfusion of new blood for Australia!
(it will severely upgrade US strains as well)
However, the LOCAL boys will be allowed a return visit to someplace foriegn too,!..... like romantic Afghanistan....
So, you see everybody wins!

I have been reading ATS for a while now and have never thought of becoming a member until I read this forum.Thankyou Rosha for your guts to say what alot of us are only thinking.
After years of our governments throwing us under the bus to please any American President in power at that time this is the last straw.In response to Jace26 tell our representative??!!!who do you think sold us all out a long time ago?This is an issue of we have the right as Australians to decide if we want armed marines or not.I don't care about the money spent by these men-I don't want to watch our Government bow and scrape at American Presidents feet-it's disgusting.Our leaders have no balls- why should we have armed marines?to please America because we are too pathetic to stand up and disagree for once?

Originally posted by Rosha

Originally posted by arbiture
reply to post by Jace26

 

You have got to be joking. Taking your jobs? If anything the US will spend a fortune with a small contingent of marines. That money will go to Australian business's, farmers and just about everything else that one can spend money on. The repositioning troops in Australia is not all that much of a change but its a visible one as opposed to places like Pine Gap. The ability to respond to actions by China is common sense.

The US is planning to reduce forces in Europe and Japan because they're not needed or not wanted. Frankly I would prefer our forces have a minimum footprint, but the change in the strategic situation is one were trying to adapt to. And as far as a facility of 2500 marines is concerned as bases go thats miniscule. Even a small port would have a larger population of people from the nation that uses those facilities on a regular basis.

I certainly don't want to go were we're not wanted. But historically US overseas bases are a cash cow, for the host country. In the end of course the decision to be based somewhere is up to the government of that country. If you don;t want it, then let your representatives know it.

I think you are misinformed as to the nature and extent of US influence and projection into our society and its 'welcome' here. Quite aside from the social issues of gangs junkfoods and media crap we dont want..regarding jobs:

www.theaustralian.com.au...

The mining sector here and our moronic government, are indeed intent on passing local jobs to US .workers.

On the other issues, we dont need monstano controlling our farmers...we dont need to take blood money from soldiers and so condone their actions against others.

We dont need a 'cash cow'. You cant 'eat' money and Id rather have dignity and self respect any day.

We already have the ability to respond to China and its isnt Americas way of doing business.

We are not a protectorate of the US..as we are not a vassel state to a war machine and globalist agenda.

When will America's 'interests' learn that you are not the boss of the world. You are not my leaders let alone world leaders i anything but killing and you are not responsibile for or to my freedom.
Your nations military and fears will not dictate my reality and the reality my children grow into and I will not be a corporate whore or collborator with mercenary armies if I choose not to be.

I have this wonderful gift of whatever God there is gave me called choice...and you cant buy that..influence that...manipulate that.. remove that..or undermine that gift, that right and responsibility I have to my own self.

While you can, for a time, influence the course of my nation via abuse of every good principle ever written, eventually, no matter what they do...no matter how many soldiers they send or dont.....we *are* Australian..and that means something here...so no matter how caught underfoot we get..we will not stay down for long.

You cant 'pay off' people to ignore atrocities...well..you can ..but that doesnt last and only the feeble minded fall for it. For all we are and are not down here...the majority are not a feeble minded people, we know exactly what is going on..and we are not all asleep.

I dont know how the Australian people will eventually rise up in their voice..but I do know that eventually they will and when they do it will loud, disrespectful, intentional, it will stand without waver and the message will be made very very clear.

Reply from arbiture*******
I am glad you have the gift of choice, truth is we all do but it takes a democratic country, like the US or Australia to have that voice heard. And what "abuse" of principles are in play here ? I lived in Australia for several years and know Australians to have the same independent streak and intolerance for bull s*** that Americans have. As for monsanto "controlling"your farmers, if you use certain farming agents thats up to you. Frankly I'm into organic farming myself, its healthier.

But the use of chemicals on crops will increase yield, but I don't require them to grow crops for a living and if I did have huge farms as they do in Australia, yield can be maximized by adding stuff that requires less man power. I own a few organic farms that are very man power intensive, and sell most of what I grow or I give it away. As I said I don't have to grow crops as my sole income.

You seem to sell Australia short. I find that odd as an American who has lived there. The USA is not the big bad imperialist that some make us out to be. We have immense technology, industrial and military power and wouldn't want it any other way.As for being misinformed as to control, I'm not.

reply to post by arbiture


Regarding my last post to JACE 26, the US has enormous power being the biggest economy on the planet, for the moment. Ask yourself if you would prefer China as the power broker, being able to strangle your trade, etc. By the way "peacefully invaded" is a contradiction of words. Invasions are not peaceful, you may be confusing influence with force.

Coke Cola and blue jeans are all over the world, as are many other American brands. Thats not an invasion or imperialism, certainly not in the pre-WW-2 British or post WW-2 communist models. its good marketing. I don't have a problem with that. I do business with several companies in Australia including mining companies. Believe me the Aussies offer a superior product and drive a hard bargain.

Do some Americans work for said companies? I never looked into it but assume quite a few may. But they and other nationals do, they work for YOUR companies by the way. I don't know the numbers. But are we or any others taking jobs from Australia? Ridicules.

And non-Australian employees of those firms are only there because of specific skills they need. Have you checked out the other nationals that work for your companies? I do know you have Brits, Japanese, Germans, and Brazilians. I know because I met them. Perhaps many other overseas nationals, so why not commit economic suicide and kick out all the foreigners? American firm employ a huge number of non-US nationals because it makes sense. Far more Australians work for US companies, foundations and Universities then our nationals work in or for Australian concerns. Much larger population in the US so thats just logical.

We won't kick them out because we need the skills they bring to us that only make our industry, research and academic institutions better. Why don't you consider the fact that corporations and other institutions have been trans-national for quite some time. And please if we were the bad guys? Then we would not be having this pleasant conversation.

Originally posted by squandered

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
reply to post by KAIARAHI

 

Maybe the US is going to need new land in the near future ?!

I'll give you this gun for that kangaroo.

If you give me the gun first, the kangaroo might um, err be a non-moving type.
They are seen as a pest outside the cities in Australia.

The Kangaroo is the worlds symbol of Australia. The American Eagle, the national emblem on our countries civilian and military emblems were poisoned and shot until they became endangered. Pity the kangaroo is considered a pest, but how Australia deals with its wild life is of course its own concern.

Originally posted by Domo1

I miss the Australian dude I used to know that would convince everyone 'drop bears' were some serious threat to peoples well being.

Is that a 'thing' you guys do to mess with people or was he just a weirdo?

I'm still here mate :p And Drop Bears ARE the single most dangerous creature to ever walk this Earth.......foreigners BEWARE!

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
reply to post by Jace26

 

NO if we were colonizing you would be better off. We would supply building, hospitals, schools and we would arm you with weapons, something that your government forbids.

and probably to save your asses because you have no way to defend yourselves should something happen.

rofl lol omg i cant stop laughing at this comment.

so you think Australia doesn't have buildings, education or hospitals, are you for real ?. yep we all live in grass huts and use paper cups and string for communication. some of us dont even have that, we have to get our pet kangaroo to deliver the messages for us.

and yeah im sure the the USA government would give every australian household a gun. lol yeah right.

i think you need to look at your own problems on such matters and leave Australia alone.

This is the only truth you speak

We are simply there as a tactical advantage

yeah but to whos advantage. seriously how naive do you think Australians are.

Whateva

Few threads have had an effect on me as much as this one.
Few people can speak as earnestly and as honestly as "Rosha".

My feelings ranged from insult, to anger, to pain.
As an American, I feel we have let you down, Aussie.

But then again, we are letting ourselves down too.
What takes place most of the time is out of our "control" range.
Yes, we need to become more involved. To stand up against the BS.
I do hope we become someone's "friend-in-good-standing" again in the future.

And I hope that Rosha gets elected and sets things right !

This is appalling. It seems the tension between the US and China is increasing. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

reply to post by Whateva69


Well don't blame America that as a nation and an English colony you have been disarmed. If we were there to colonize you we would provide Australians with rifles to defend themselves as well as training for those who would like to adopt the constitution. That however is not the case, but as the two countries are allies we are there to protect our strategic interests as well as yours.

If Australia was in an armed confrontation with the likes of China or North Korea you would most likely be stomped due to having a weak military force and unarmed civilians.

I am not stating that Australia does not have schools, hospitals or churches. But if America was there to colonize Australia, thats what colonization would look like.