Why Are So Many People Debating About Gay Marriages? You've All Got It All Wrong!

Originally posted by Garfee

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Garfee

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
reply to post by Garfee

 

Because the only time I hear about being bullied is when in involves homosexuals in some way. I never hear about anybody else committing suicide because they were bullied, only homosexuals. I'm sure there have been other people who did commit suicide because of other people bullying them, but I've never heard of it.

You didn't hear about the teenage girl who killed herself because of cyber bullying?

www.truecrimereport.com...

Or the boy with muscular dystrophy who killed himself because of bullying at school?

www.care2.com...

Yeah. But 5 gay teens killed themselves within a 2 week period.

That's why its in the news.

Oh but Annee I'm just soooo sick and tired of the gays killing themselves, surely there must be another group we can push?

In a 2 year period - - - 9 gay teens commit suicide in Michelle Bachmann's district.

Gay teen bullying is in the news because of its extremism. Not because it is diminishing other bullying.

The Teen Suicide Epidemic in Michele Bachmann's District

Two years. Nine suicides. Why critics blame the congresswoman's anti-gay allies for contributing to a mental health crisis. motherjones.com...

reply to post by newsoul


The problem isn't having an opinion, it's about promoting an opinion that doesn't affect your enjoyment of life, but restricts others of their right to pursue love and happiness.

When you walk away from your computer this topic becomes a non-issue to you. It doesn't impact how people treat you. You're free to enjoy life with your spouse, and life goes on. For others in this conversation, however, turning off their computers doesn't make the subject go away. People on the streets are telling their kids that they're "immoral" and promote erroneous beliefs like sexual orientation is a choice. Imagine what life would be like if someone told you that rather than live happily with the husband that you love, you should instead choose someone else that others approve of. I know I wouldn't stand for it. Would you?

If you're happily married you of all people should understand and appreciate the joy of being in a loving and committed relationship. My marriage was the most special thing in my life. Imagine, then, what it would be like if someone you didn't know decided that you should be deprived of that love forever because they didn't believe it was right. Wouldn't you fight for the right to love him? Love, equality and acceptance as equals is an incredibly emotional issue, and it's why some people here are so adamant in their beliefs.

My philosophy is to treat all people equally, and respect their right to be different. Defend everyones right to be treated equally, even if it may go against some of the traditions you were raised to believe in.

Originally posted by Dark Ghost

What does this all have to do with Gay Marriage? Some of us in this thread have provided logic and reason to illustrate why we oppose Gay Marriage. Yet, because you disagree with these views, you are assuming we are prejudiced and intolerant.

edit on 6/4/2012 by Dark Ghost because: reworded

There is no logical reason to oppose gay marriage. Now, if one was arguing in favor of eliminating all heterosexual unions, one could logically argue that we would become extinct. But banning gay marriage is not advantageous to us at all, and allowing gay marriage does not hurt us at all.

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by newsoul


So what you're saying is that if someone doesn't agree with YOUR view or beliefs they are wrong. You are saying that you are not prejudice, yet YOU are intolerant of my beliefs.

Hitler believed Jews were an inferior race, comparable to animals. Should we have been tolerant of his beliefs?

And as I have previously stated.

I know Christians who do not accept homosexuality because of their belief - - - but are intelligent and open minded enough to separate their belief from understanding and accepting Equal Rights.

People have a choice. Belief is one thing - - - intolerance of a minority having Equal Rights is a Choice.

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by newsoul


So what you're saying is that if someone doesn't agree with YOUR view or beliefs they are wrong. You are saying that you are not prejudice, yet YOU are intolerant of my beliefs.

Hitler believed Jews were an inferior race, comparable to animals. Should we have been tolerant of his beliefs?

Yes and Hilter herded them into burning ovens like cattle. The difference is, his intentions were to kill them, his intentions weren't just to share his opinion with the world. He wanted them gone from the face of the earth.

I have seen violence toward homosexuals, and I don't agree with that. I have seen violence toward people of religion and I don't agree with that either. Voicing your opinion or belief is completely different than acting with violence toward another person.

Originally posted by newsoul
reply to post by toochaos4u

 

Yes you are right, insurance fraud happens all the time. And I believe that your argument is valid in that case.

However, if a disabled person has never worked or paid social security, their monthly wage is barely enough to live on. Add in the costs of medicines and living expenses and they would surely be well below the poverty level. So, in order for the mother to make sure that her son is provided for, the logical thing to do would be to marry him. And since all she wants is to make sure that he is provided for for the rest of his life, why should she be denied that right. If one group of people can get concessions, why can't another?

Bad argument. If a person is legally disabled, a parent or guardian can claim them as their dependent without marrying them.

Originally posted by kaylaluv

There is no logical reason to oppose gay marriage.

Right!

And that is why the Prop8 supporters lost in court.

They could not come up with any reason other then personal "belief".

reply to post by kaylaluv


This is true as well. When my grandmother was still alive she claimed my uncle as a dependent until she was 92 and passed away. After she died the family got together and helped him find a place of his own and found charities and such so that nearly everything was paid for. He even had a social worker and nurse visit monthly to make sure he could keep up with his meds.and he still pocketed around 100.00 per month. So claiming he had to marry someone let along a relative to get by is strange.

Michelle Bachmann voices her opinion of Homosexuals.

9 teens committed suicide in her district.

She was not physically violent towards them.

It is very sad that children would commit suicide because someone voiced their opinion.


There has to be underlying issues. Self worth is not defined by how much you weigh, sexual orientation, the color of your skin or if you are religious or not. Self worth is something that is instilled in you by your parents or guardians and no one can take that away from you, unless you allow them too. No one can make you feel inferior, unless you allow them too.

reply to post by newsoul

Male (+) Female (-) same thing.

No it isn't, not even close. The notion that Males are "positive" and females are "negative" is a deeply rooted cultural metaphor. This same metaphor has caused a great deal of problems for the female gender, has it not? All over the globe Men (+) are treated as if they have more value then the female (-). However we both know that this is an unenlightened notion and leads to great sorrow and at its core is simply a waste of resources. This same argument applies to Homosexuality. Many view Gays as "perverse", "unnatural", they should be shunned, they should be pariahs and because of this Gays are often persecuted around the world in nearly the same way as your Sisters. Gays are not unnatural, they are contributing members of society who only want to particapte in society as equals, nothing more. They only want what many take for granted.

18 Anti-Gay Groups and Their Propaganda

13 of these groups are currently officially listed as Hate Groups.

They are on this list because of their Voice and Opinions. You can read about each and every one at this site: www.splcenter.org...

Abiding Truth Ministries - Springfield, Mass
American Family Association
Americans for Truth About Homosexuality
American Vision
Chalcedon Foundation - Vallecito, Calif.
Christian Anti-Defamation Commission - Vista, Calif.
Concerned Women for America - Washington, D.C.
Coral Ridge Ministries - Fort Lauderdale, Fla.
Dove World Outreach Center - Gainesville, Fla.
Faithful Word Baptist Church - Tempe, Ariz.
Family Research Council - Washington, D.C.
Family Research Institute - Colorado Springs, Colo.
Heterosexuals Organized for a Moral Environment - Downers Grove, Ill.
Illinois Family Institute - Carol Stream, Ill.
Liberty Counsel - Orlando, Fla.
MassResistance
National Organization for Marriage - Princeton, N.J.
Traditional Values Coalition - Anaheim, Calif.

18 Anti-Gay Groups and Their Propaganda

By Evelyn Schlatter Even as some well-known anti-gay groups like Focus on the Family moderate their views, a hard core of smaller groups, most of them religiously motivated, have continued to pump out demonizing propaganda aimed at homosexuals and other sexual minorities. These groups’ influence reaches far beyond what their size would suggest, because the “facts” they disseminate about homosexuality are often amplified by certain politicians, other groups and even news organizations. www.splcenter.org...

reply to post by toochaos4u


I didn't say anything about incest. They could legally marry without having sex.

Also, everyone knows that state subsidized health care is subpar. Why couldn't she marry him to keep him on her health insurance plan? She doesn't want her only son to live in a state of welfare, and she could prevent that if she were allowed to marry him. It would also keep him from being a tax burden.

I hardly believe that social security will be around too much longer, so what happens to him then? A parent has no greater love, than the love for her child.

reply to post by Helmkat


male/female, positive/negative, yin/yang = balance

I know that these ideas have only been around for thousands of years.

Originally posted by newsoul

I would be more than happy to answer your question.

Karen and Sally have been best friends since high school. They are straight. Karen can't get insurance through her work so Sally agrees to marry her. End of problem, no one gets hurt and she is helping her friend. Except it is a problem, it is insurance fraud. We would have to rewrite the legislature on that, because there would be no way to prove fraud.

Would it then be legal for a woman to marry her disabled son, so that she could keep him insured? I know, I know, that's not legal. It is against the law for her to marry her son. But she only wants whats best for him because she loves him more than life itself. Why is it against the law for her to marry her son, why can't concessions be made for them, it isn't hurting anyone.

Would a preacher or clergyman be sued if he refused to marry a gay couple because it goes against his religious views. Could he be sued for discrimination for not going against his faith?

There are people who like to be naked all the time. They go to nude beaches and hang out at home naked. If they had their way, they would be naked everywhere. At the mall, the grocery, the park. In dentists offices and doctors offices, they would take their kids to school naked. Because they think it is natural. And it is, we ARE born that way. But it is not considered acceptable behavior in our society. Do you think that we should change that law? Shoud the minority of nudists be allowed to change our laws? They wouldn't be hurting anyone and it is natural.

I have only scratched the surface, but I think that is a good starting point for the possible implications.

So you're saying that all gays marry for fraudulent reasons? All gays are super litigious? All gays are nudists?
Because it seems to me that heterosexuals could be, and are, guilty of all these things.

People are always going to try and abuse the system. Shouldn't we ban ALL marriages in general, because someone may marry for fraudulent reasons?

Comparing married gays to nudists is silly. If you saw two men walking down the street, you wouldn't know if they were married or not. You certainly WOULD know if you saw a nudist walking down the street that he was nude.

There are several states that have legalized gay marriage - some of them for several years now. Please take a look at those states, and show me proof that there have been dire consequences as a direct result of legalizing gay marriage.

Originally posted by newsoul
reply to post by Helmkat

 

male/female, positive/negative, yin/yang = balance

I know that these ideas have only been around for thousands of years.

Care to address what I spoke of? that how the Female being associated with the negative in many cultures has lead to the Female sex often being treated as second class citizens (clearly there is not a balance between males and females in this regard) and how that might relate to the what Homosexuals are trying to achieve today?

Thanks in advance.

reply to post by Annee


hey now wait a minute.
Didn't you lose all your credibility posting in the trevon martin threads?
I have debated you on your anti christian, pro gay anything posts and you exagerate and propogate hate towards everyone you want to demonize and you show here as well that your sources are suspect and full of hate towards those you yourself hate.
You had sources in the hate zimmerman threads too yet I have a glaring question.
Where is your apology in the zimmerman ahte posts you made incessantly over and over now that your sources were proven to have lied and spread hate to further an ideology and personal agenda?
Seriously, where is the apology?
And your M.O. in this topic is the exact same as the other topic. You are hate monguering all over ats and I think it's evil and irresponsible.
All you are doing is spewing hate and railroading another topic aoof topic to suit your hate monguering anti agenda.
Your sources serve nothing but polemic ahte filled agendas towards innocent people and organizations that serve nothing but an ideology filled with hate.
But at least I agree with what you claimed in the hate zimmerman posts you made..You are remaining consistant.
Now let this thread go back on topic and away from your derailment posts serving hate monguering agendas.

Let's face it, if religion never happened, there wouldn't be an argument about this right now, in fact, there wouldn't be an argument about most things, except maybe murder and other extremes.

Look at animals, thousands upon thousands of species of animal have sex with females and males of the same species, and don't have a problem with it. Humans ... well, almost all religions have discriminatory views towards homosexuality, and have done for thousands of years, and i'd say that's long enough for it to be drummed into people's heads. If there was never religion, we'd live peacefully on this issue.

I'd bet you anything, that if there were no religion today, then we'd have a helluva lot less discrimination, and a lot more people having sex with both genders.

reply to post by Helmkat


Clearly woman have been as you have stated "seen as second class citizens" in many countries because of the religions that are prevalent in those countries. The bible says that a man is the leader of his house. In the bible woman are to serve their husbands. This thread is not about womans sufferage so I really don't know where you are going with this idea.

If you are going to throw out all groups who have been discriminated against, you can use EVERY religion, EVERY race, EVERY nationality, the list is endless.

reply to post by manna2


If I could shake your hand, I surely would.

2nd