Why Are So Many People Debating About Gay Marriages? You've All Got It All Wrong!

Gay marriage is not a right, and neither is a straight marriage....period!
How can a man-made institution be a human right?
That's like saying owning an Xbox is a human right

It should be up to the church to decide, and different churches can have different opinions.
And hey guess what, gay churches can open up too, private ones that is.

It's not the role of govt. to tell you who you can't marry
But wait... don't agree with me just yet, because it's also not the role of govt. to tell you who YOU CAN marry either.

So the entire debate becomes a non-issue, and so much energy is being wasted on it

its because even though we live in a free society,,, my immature and unjustifiable opinion should keep you from doing something you want to do, even if it doesn't negatively effect another person..... How would i be free if i couldn't stop dem queers from marryin,

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Marriage is just a title IMO... I mean do you love someone more if you are married? I would hope that your love wouldn't be oppressed due to lack of some title... I agree. The whole thing has an element of silliness.

Originally posted by ImaFungi
its because even though we live in a free society,,, my immature and unjustifiable opinion should keep you from doing something you want to do, even if it doesn't negatively effect another person..... How would i be free if i couldn't stop dem queers from marryin,

Ummm.. because your freedom is your freedom and other people's freedom are not yours?

How could you be free if others can take freedom away from you?

reply to post by ModernAcademia


im sorry, i was being sarcastic,,, the same people who love the fact america is free, and we live in a free society, love telling other people what they can and cannot do and think.... the argument should not exist, any one who is against gay people marrying should be ridiculed, mocked and ignored,, they should not be taken seriously,,, the lives of gay people should have nothing to do with these people,,

if anything it is another petty distraction for bigger problems.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


You are right.

The problem lies in the fact that the government got themselves involved and created a legal institution surrounding marriage that provided more rights to married folks than single folks.

Having barred access to those particular rights from any group of citizens is criminal and wrong. If the government were to create a proxy and call it Civil Unions for example, then the debate would probably die.

As long as it remains only for a special group of people, namely straights, then it's discriminatory and technically against the law.

All the sensible gay folk, only want the rights afforded to straight couples. They don't care what it's called.

~Tenth

reply to post by ImaFungi


So if I was against gay marriage for any number of reasons no matter how civil I was, I should be ridiculed, mocked and ignored.

That is the very reason the gay community has had a hard time making inroads. Its an in your face, gay pride parade and damn the social graces attitude of the very small minority that speaks for the majority in that movement. Your advice is a prime example of how not to persuade..

reply to post by TruckDriver69


Well there is no legitimate argument against allowing gays to get married.

The argument for it is legal, as in there's a lack of legal rights.

The argument against is moral, religious or otherwise opinion based in nature. Which holds no weight in an argument regarding whether a group of people should have the same rights.

It's the same as saying that we should not have allowed blacks to vote because it would make the racists uncomfortable.

See the difference?

~Tenth

Id have to agree the gay "pride" community on whole has taken on a very polar, raw, lewd tangent which should offend most homosexuals who lead moderate, balanced lifestyles.

There was the race card and now theres the gay card. "Don't hate me cause I'm gay and proud"

There IS such thing as being too proud.

Anyways, as far as marriage, it should be a non-issue but because it is an issue for straights (marriage license, joint IRS filing, health insurance), it IS also an issue and a right since straights have it.

You shouldn't be a second class citizen not allowed to marry the love of your life just because you're left handed instead of right, or likewise just because you're gay instead of straight. 1 in 10 people is a big chunk of the population you're oppressing and you see it in the overzealous displays of pride GLBT take on, to be heard and recognized as equal.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Yes, I do... Its the Ridicule and Mock comment I think loses the argument every time. Convince through debate, not mocking or ridicule. I don't see how that makes the gay movement any closer to the equal rights they so desire. It really makes me think twice about the agenda when those tactics are used.

It makes people like me think, whats next? What are they going to want after this? In other words, "We brow beat them into this, now its time to start on "that." Ridicule and mocking gets you a whole lot of skepticism and 0 credibility.

reply to post by TruckDriver69


oh, well I don't agree with mocking folk for their beliefs/opinions myself. And I agree that the gay community really needs to tone it down if they want anything done.

Problem really is that the group is represented by extremists. On both sides. Most people are moderates but receive no representation. Cause the inflammed rhetoric and continued debate puts a lot of money in a lot of people's pocket.

I simply meant to respond to your having an objection in the first place (not that it seems you do). Anything outside of the equivalent legal argument is simply not sufficient.

~Tenth

You're saying marriage is only religious (I suppose your choice of religion).

So atheists shouldn't get married?

People have been getting married long before the currently faddish religions.

And who says religion isn't also man-made?
Who says your view is not man-made?

Or are you arguing that nobody should be married?

There's also marriage as a civil right, which confers various rights and responsibilities between the two partners.
That didn't matter much to previous states, as long as marriage produced new labor and markets, and kept women disempowered economically, and kept the inheritance in a male lineage.
If it took a few brothels to keep that going it didn't matter much.

In SA we've had civil or religious marriage between opposite sex partners since the 1960s.
Since 1998 we also have a law allowing for customary marriage (including African or some other polygamous traditions).
Since 2006 the Civil Union Act allows same sex couples to marry (over 18, to a single partner), either in a civil or religious ceremony. Although the rights are the same as the original marriage act, it is an extra law, and no religious institution is forced to marry anyone they don't want to.
en.wikipedia.org...

Marriage had many roles, from forging social and cultural ties between communities, and also economic exchanges.

It's easy to wonder why people still want to get married (and in more secular countries they go the civil route, or often leave it completely), but ultimately you become kin, and if your partner is hurt and ends up in hospital, the last thing you need to hear is that you cannot see them because you're not "next of kin".

Marriage is not only a religious institution.
In fact, the religious examples of marriage are very different to our own.

reply to post by TruckDriver69


im sorry i said ridicule and mock,,,, gay people arent gay to offend you,,,, dont watch there parades if you dont care for them,,, let them do what they want though.,, why ,, not?

ok i read your whole post and you brought up the ridicule and mock again,,,, now you are the victim great,, what will they want next from you,,,,, wont you loosen the reigns of control you have on their lives a little? no because then theyd want a mile......

my one comment is going to really make you think on the subject more,,, great,,,,


i only said ridicule and mock,, because in my eyes the argument is ridiculous,, and mockery and mimicry is a good way to show the ridiculous how ridiculous they are, if they understand... this is not some strategy they use against you,, they dont care about you as much as you care about them.

I didnt think people still cared so highly for marriage. With the increasing divorce rates, I would say our trend of marriage will soon fall to the way side. About time too, why do we still follow an archaic religious ceremony again?

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Oh, I do have an objection. I don't think it is a good idea because I do think there is an agenda. I think there is a slippery slope so to speak and its for the very reasons I have outlined. Do I think the majority of Gay people have an agenda outside their desire to marry? No, I don't but I do fear the small minority and what their plans really are if they get this across the board. I am firmly against it until the majority Gay community can clarify it and drive the extremists out.

Not that I have any control at all over the issue other than my vote. I am just one dude here in my den...

When two people love each other, let them get married if that's what they
want. Its a label. Love is not a label. It no way hurts marriage
Other than when people take offense to it, something they put
On themselves. If G-d has a problem then that's for him to do
what he gotta do, not us.

I am a man with a very beautiful "domestic partner". She is my best friend
And sure as hell my wife just not the title. Point being
I'm not attracted to men. Just not for me. So if someone
Is gay, I think then maybe G-d made them that way

But that's not for us to know for sure. To gay people they know.

reply to post by TruckDriver69


youve never had any run ins at any truck stops?

reply to post by tothetenthpower

The problem lies in the fact that the government got themselves involved and created a legal institution surrounding marriage that provided more rights to married folks than single folks.

Bingo! I tried to point out the same thing in another thread recently.

Gov't uses tax incentives to make their place in marriage seem 'legit'...another tentacle around the citizenry.
They are in our schools, churches, and ever-increasingly in our homes.

I think our only hope now is if the Founding Fathers rise up in an unstoppable zombie invasion.

reply to post by ImaFungi


I'm no victim.. I just don't agree with the agenda as I see it or the road debates like this take. It always ends in a flame war with no real progress because people like you think that they need to mock and ridicule. I have a genuine concern based on what I hear and see.

Then again, I can do nothing to prevent it other than vote. Even there, at times the vote is over turned as unconstitutional. When it is, the vocal minority Gay community is right there with arrogance about the win as opposed to being more humble in the face of a majority opposition. Its like they always need to be over the top and keyed way up. It seems to me there is a real question of mental health there.

Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by TruckDriver69

 

youve never had any run ins at any truck stops?

This is exactly the way these debates tend to go with people like you. Right down the gutter. What kind of question is that? Are you implying that I had some type of homosexual relation at a truck stop? What does that have to do with Gay Marriage? You see how the ridicule starts and how you have just lost all credibility?