Time to take the gun from the American public!

I cant express my disagreement with the OP enough. I am guessing first of all you have never fired a weapon before and are unfamiliar with the millions of lawful families that hold weapons for their own protection. Secondly, I am guessing that you are not a US citizen and have a 3rd person perspective. There are millions of citizens out there everyday that carry weapons legally (concealed too) without incident and do so to protect themselves and their families.

Removing weapons from society would hurt lawful citizens that are proactive to protect themselves and give the "bad guys" an increased advantage. People who want weapons will always be able to get them illegally and this is how a majority of criminals receive their weapons. Its not just a constitutional right, but a necessity for someone to have the right to protect themselves.

OP, have you ever thought what might have happened if there was a surplus of guns and less anti-weapon laws during those shootings? Teachers would be armed in schools (currently no weapons in schools) along with citizens that would gladly protect lawful citizens and innocent civilians against a rebellious shooter. Think about things both ways...

In conclusion, car accidents kill more people in one day than firearms do in a year from shootings! You dont see people lobbying to take away driving and cars do you? Open your mind, your analogy of an alcoholic being blind to being one is correct....except your the alcoholic blind to the counter-arguement of firearms and the logical benefits.

reply to post by lacrimaererum


I am an American gun owner. Three times in my life have I ever pointed a gun at another human being. When I was 12 years old home alone with my then 6 year old baby sister a man busted out a back window on our house and had one leg, one arm and his head inside the back bedroom. I yelled for him to freeze, he saw the gun pointed at him and got out of there. Police caught him 10 minutes later trying to break in a neighbor's house. Second time was about 5 years ago. In the wee hours of the morning the dogs started fussing. An apparently really stoned on drugs man was in front of my house yelling. My husband told him to get on down the road or he would call the police. The man pulled a butcher knife out of his jacket, and I pulled my pistol from behind my back. He dropped the knife and ran away. Last time was less than 2 months ago. A crazy dude ran up in our yard and started physically attacking my husband. I ran inside and got my pistol and held him at gunpoint until the police arrived.

Point is, the police can't be everywhere. If I don't have the means to protect my family then who will? Can you honestly say that if some maniac were attacking one of your loved ones that the police will be there in time to save their life? If you had the means to protect them would you? You don't necessarily have to shoot a gun for it to be an effective tool for protection, but I assure you that if I ever really had to pull the trigger I would. If by some quirk of fate you happened to have access to a gun and you knew that you could save your loved one from being killed by using it would you? Or would you just stand there and watch them die?

Responsible gun owners don't go running around killing people- criminals and crazy people do! And guess what? No matter where you live or what the laws say criminals and crazy people always find a way to get guns- even in countries where civilians are banned from having them!

Let's shred EVERY Amendment in the Bill of Rights that contain "the people". Let's start with the 1st Amendment, then you can take my 2nd Amendment. Sorry, OP, but if you come for my guns, you'd better be willing to kill me with one.

A deranged man decapitated another passenger on a greyhound bus in Canada last year. he used a knife.Considering all the machete deaths in the Sudan recently, with the OP's logic we should also ban any edged weapons. I am a recent Canadian gun owner, and a range officer at our local range. I was surprised by my family and friends adverse reaction to my new hobby. My sister even went as far to say that my ruger mini-14 had an evil aura to it. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. And we have been doing so for all of recorded history.

reply to post by JonoEnglish

Just because the number of 'reported or recorded' assaults or rapes is higher, it doesn't mean you have lower per capita than us.

I didn't mention anything about "reported or recorded" assaults or rapes. My stats were per capita, so yes, your's is higher on both counts. It wouldn't matter if the UK were on the moon. Those numbers would still be valid.

See ya,
Milt

Honestly, I didn't even finish reading the rest of your trite, ill-informed, sheeple post. As a matter of fact, I didn't even take the few seconds of my precious time to find out if you were American or non-American......because either way, I don't care. Stupid is as stupid does.

My rebuttal to your (insert decorative slam-down adjective here) thread can be found at the following:

I Am So Tired Of Hearing People Protest About Gun Ownership In America

If you live in America, go to the ATS link and learn. If you don't, go to the ATS link, learn, and dream about living somewhere that affords you these inalienable rights.

And yes, my original title was "I am so tired of hearing people (dog in heat) about gun ownership in america"

But ATS is so overprotective of their toddlers that my title was changed.

An adult webpage, with adult topics and (dog in heat) is an unacceptable word.......go figure.

reply to post by AwakeinNM


Sorry buddy.

The FBI estimates that there are over 200 million privately-owned firearms in the US. If you add those owned by the military, law enforcement agencies and museums, there is probably about 1 gun per person in the country.

Many of the mass shootings are done by people who purchased legal weapons not some street thug who happen to get it from a drug dealer. Most suicides by gun are done by legally purchased weapons. Most death by spouse is committed by legally purchased weapons. Most accidental deaths by gun (the kid picks up gun in the home and blows a hole in his head or a friends head) are committed by legally purchased weapons.

What is a legally purchased weapon? Well, that could many anything depending on what state you live in.

What we have here with the mass killings is not some "example of gun control" but a realization of how stupid people are overall. I will call it the "stupid people syndrome" or "98% of the US population should not be carrying weapons because they are dumb as a rock."

reply to post by JonoEnglish

Yeah, maybe you're right. But then again, I wouldn't be an American, would I.

See ya,
Milt

Say we ban firearms, people are going to find ways to kill each other. Whether it may be purchasing illegal firearms or using alternative weapons.

If guns kill people,
then pencils misspell words.

reply to post by lacrimaererum




So you want to take guns away from law abiding citizens that use their guns for hunting and various other shooting sports and for personal defense. You know by doing what you want the only ones that will have guns will be cops and criminals right, because criminals will always have guns and ammo no matter how tough the law is, they are criminals after all they dont care about laws. Yet us law abiding gun owners that abide by the hundreds of different city, state and federal laws mandated by our government that are doing no wrong nor harm to you or anyone else should also lose their guns because some crazy individuals that should've been locked up long before they ever took it upon themselves to do bodily harm against innocent people. I'm sorry but your plan will never work, EVER.

Lets look at the whole BIG picture of what you want to do to those of us law abiding gun owners.

1. Banning all guns from everyone and making it illegal to own or possess will most certainly spark a new revolution and not a peaceful one most gun owners live by Charlton Heston's words " You can have my guns when you pry them from my cold dead hands".

2. Guns are a huge business in America, when the stock market crashed the most profitable industry was the gun manufactures and ammunition manufactures. Banning guns would put "Millions" of American workers out of work from the machinist working at a local machine shop too a gun salesman at a major sporting goods chain. Banning guns would create an even worse economy than what happened when the stock market crashed in 2008, so now you have a bunch of out of work Americans that are pissed off at you anti gun nutcases for putting them out of work and taking away their means to defends themselves and their family and/or put food on the table. I would not want to be an anti-gun nutcase like yourself if you catch my drift.


Go ahead take them away that Utopia you have pictured in your brain will certainly be a much, much more dark, violent and sinister Utopia than you have pictured inside your mind. Maybe you should redirect your energy and blame the system for not screening these nutjobs that committed these violent acts and letting them slip through the cracks there are warning signs that are present months and sometimes years before such acts happen. Blame their relatives, friends, co-workers, teachers and local law enforcement for ignoring those warning signs. Hopefully my post gives you a different perspective to look at and sheds some reality on what would most likely happen if guns were banned.

So if the government tried to take peoples guns away, some of you would shoot and kill them? You would either be shot dead immediately or spend the rest of your lives in jail. You like guns that much that you're willing to throw your lives away?

I'm personally neutral on the gun issue, and I realize this is a sensitive issue due to general distrust of the government, but don't you think there's another way without resorting to violence? Also, isn't there another way of keeping guns out of the hands of unstable people without resorting to gun bans/confiscation?

I honestly cannot see the government going door to door taking peoples guns, it doesn't make much sense. People would just hide them, it's a fruitless enterprise. Is it entirely possible that most people are paranoid, illogical, and irrational when it comes to gun rights?

Anyhow, just a few thoughts.

I feel sorry for you op, getting blasted with "wawawa but guns are my freedoms".

Legally letting anyone run around with a gun is madness and uncivilised. A gun is a deadly weapon, they should only be allowed to be used by people who have been trained to use one properly, and be permitted to carry one with a license.

A car is a dangerous vehicle as it can be a threat to others, that is why you need a license and training to drive one, otherwise you are breaking the law.

It's typical though, cowards will be cowards, and for that they need a gun.

I could never imagine walking down the high-street in town with the thought that any pedestrian on the street could have me at gunpoint in a flash. Honestly, i feel that isn't "freedom" at all... i'd rather be free to go about my business without the constant threat of some moron running around with a gun.

I see it as an ego thing. "Not a man if you don't own a gun" -- "So uncool, get a gun".

Do you people in the US even understand what the word freedom implies? Getting held at gunpoint is a freedom? Woah, nice going.

(first one to call me a "terrorist" or a "anti-american" gets a medal for being as typical as you can get)

No but it is time to take the cigarette away from the american public and if we used your analysis as a precedent we would come to the conclusion that we should take prescription medicine and automobiles away as well.

I'll tell you what, Opie, when you campaign to outlaw cars, which kill about 40,000 every year, then we can talk.

reply to post by JonoEnglish

To be fair, we see reports in the media of these shootings.

Perhaps that's to keep you Brits feeling "warm and fuzzy" about being unarmed. It seems to work pretty damn well.

See ya,
Milt

When you outlaw guns then only outlaws will have guns. It's a fact. If you really believe you can wait around for a cop to show up when you're being threatened then you don't deserve freedom. What you are looking for is a "big brother" to take care of every aspect of your life. I prefer to rely on my God-given freedom to defend myself.

reply to post by JonoEnglish

I bet you're fun on Halloween.

I thought of that too! A star for you.

See ya,
Milt

Originally posted by yuppa
I swear. If its not another person pissing on the second amendment. Usually the reasoning to get rid of Guns is a knee jerk reaction to over reach. Its lazy to just blame Guns. I have never seen a gun get up,load itself,cock itself,and shoot someone. A human has to operate it. We have backround checks and all kinds of regulations. The guy who was shooting today was not in his right mind. I think someone is trolling the Gun owners a bit. Could someone not be able to own a weapon and is taking it out on others who can?No offense but it sounds like that could be the case.

Strange thing is we have see these background checks and regulations on weapons fail time and time again. The only answer is according to most (in order to protect ourselves from the insane) is to arm more civilians. Yet despide the numbers on crime and associated insane people percentages do not drop.

We understand that there are criminals out here with weapons robbing and stealing and murdering but in cases like the one in California ... they use legally purchased weapons. How does this happen? What breakdown do we have in the system? How can an innocent person be protected by the failed weapons laws? Buy another gun and hope for the best? That seems to be the solution.

Take for example Mir Aimal Kasi in 1993 who shot up 5 CIA employees with an AK-47 and only stopped shooting because he couldn't find any more victims. Realistically would armed civilians helped in that situation? (I am sure a lot of ball heavy macho people think it would have..."I can shoot a wamp rat at 5 meters") Thing is he purchased an automatic rifle (i am sure it was for hunting) with the sole intent to murder as many people as he could.

VA has conceal gun laws. Pretty darn easy to get a gun in VA.

reply to post by L00kingGlass

So if the government tried to take peoples guns away, some of you would shoot and kill them?

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

2nd amendment


Oath of Enlistment
I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.
Officers Oath
I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God



So to answer your question, that should never happen and if it does, it is either a foreign enemy or a violator of the oath. The military code of justice is a qualifier that takes priority if the President makes orders that are unconstitutional the Constitution takes priority.