Time to take the gun from the American public!

reply to post by BenReclused


This is completely illogical.

If you look at Ireland or the UK or Japan, places with sensible gun control laws, the chances of running into a gun, even though criminals have them, to a degree, is essentially negligible.

If the US brought in non-hunting gun control laws it would take a while to clean up the 70 million guns and reduce it to a reasonable number (two hunting guns per person w/ hunting license, say) it would take a while to get the other guns off the street, and it would never completely remove guns from society, BUT it would be possible to significantly reduce handgun crime to European levels, reduce the murder rate, significantly, and make people actually feel safer.

Americans are deluded into thinking they need a gun to protect themselves against others with guns.... visit a European country.. no one hear lives in fear of guns, or feels they need a gun for safety... I lived in London for years, a city of 10M+ and didn't see a single handgun. In fact the only guns I ever saw were on the occasional cops. I know some criminals have 'em, but they are NOT part of society.

I grew up in the deep south in the states and saw two people shot in my high school. I knew dozens of kids with guns, dozens. That's not right. At all.

I know that Americans tend to think guns are essential, but they're wrong. The data, the facts, from the rest of the world prove they're wrong.

I'm from the UK, we dont have guns here like you do, and gun grime is relatively low, generally isolated to criminal use.

Is America that unsafe that you all feel the need to have guns?

This is a serious question, just trying to understand the need for guns in your country?

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I understand your concern. But the things that have been said in this article are far less "threatening" or "hateful" than what I have seen in other threads of less importance. I am sorry if my response or the response of my fellow gunners here has offended you but that just shows how passionate we are about our firearms. And trust me each of us would say the same thing to our own government as we have said here. We are speaking in defense of our rights and nothing more. We are excersiceing freedom of speach on our right to bear arms. No need to freak out.

reply to post by JROCK2527


Again, millions of people feel wholly American without owning a gun. It's a delusion to think you need a gun to express your American-ness. And as has been stated repeatedly, guns are not actually protecting American democracy or freedom or anything else. They are ion no way acting as a check on the US government. Are they being used in the vast majority of murders? Yes. Does America need 7M guns? Of course not.

Originally posted by AwakeinNM

Guns aren't allowed on college campuses, rendering the students helpless to defend themselves when some half-baked student cracks under pressure and decides to take it out on the people around him.

edit on 3-4-2012 by AwakeinNM because: (no reason given)

LOL really? Can you not see the complete stupidity in that sentence? So our kids should be allowed to carry guns to schoo justl to defend them selves from the nuts who already have easy access to guns?

Throwing more guns at the problem and advocating handguns as the only means of self defence isnt ever gonna fix anything.

reply to post by captainnotsoobvious


Spoken like a city folk lol. It's protecting me and mine from any scum that happens to be passing through, from wolves, coyotes(not the little cute ones, ones that have crossbred with timber wolves), from bears. It also puts meat on the table. Yeah I have like 40 guns in my house, between me pops and my great uncle. A few for pure defense, the rest are for hunting different sized animals. Cant hunt a squirrel with a moose gun, and vice versa.

reply to post by lacrimaererum


The question is not, Isn't it time to take guns away from people, but rather, isn't it time once again to take away another right from the average citizen because a handful of idiots abuse that right? Two terrorists slam planes into the Twin Towers, and now our privacy is completely violated. We are legally molested at airports. The private items in our luggage is bared for all to see. Indeed, our very own private body parts must be made available for close inspection by non-medical personell that have been given a badge.

Personally, I HATE guns! But a law prohibiting the ownership of a gun will not stop the criminals from getting their hands on one. Hell, we can't stop drugs from entering the country, how would anyone expect to keep illegal weapons from slipping in over our borders?

Though I do agree, and would insist, that the purchase of a weapon should only be attained by taking an IQ test that proves the buyer is smarter than a monkey, and a psych evaluation that indicates the buyer isn't crazy.

reply to post by TKDRL


Honestly, that's nonsense.

You don't need 40 guns. No one does. You've just become a collector. That's fine, if the world was full of people that treated guns like artwork, but the high murder rate in America shows that's not the case... America's murder rate is 4x higher than European ones and most of those are committed with guns and most of those guns are hand guns.

If America made hand guns illegal the amount of murders committed with hand guns would drop exponentially for a decade, at least.

If you look at other places that have a lot of guns (Switzerland, for instance, has a third as many guns per capita, still a lot), what you find is that they DON'T tend to have a lot of handguns. That's pretty much, as far as rich countries go, just the US.

And the US, as far as rich countries go, has the highest murder rate (and prison numbers) by far.

The US is full of murder, people in prison, and drugs. People are scared of cops and scared of each other.

In Ireland the cops don't carry guns... or tasers... and guess what... the relationship between people and cops is relatively stress free.

Americans can't imagine a cop without a gun. It's amazing.

reply to post by jiggerj


Again, this is demonstrably not true.

In the part of the world I live in guns, due to restrictions, are not that common amongst criminals.

That's another one of those made in America myths... that in a country with gun control any criminal can have one, and often do, and the average Joe can't protect himself.

Not true.

In the UK its illegal to own a pistol other than a small bore target pistol, very hard to get a shotgun licence, even harder to get a rifle.
Carrying a swiss army knife in your pocket can get you arrested and forget going camping with a bowie knife.

People get stabbed every day, most weeks there are shootings.

Some folks compare the UK to the US, but a fairer comparison would be to compare us to a state or two, rather than the whole country, as it provides a better per capita figure.

Our gun laws are stupid, the only people with guns are toffs and crims.

I firmly believe that so many people owning guns is one of the few things that keeps the law makers off the average American's back.

Our police and politicians don't give a stuff cos they've nothing to fear.

Give up your guns and you'll soon be wearing shackles, like us.

reply to post by SprocketUK


This just shows your ignorance.

Lawmakers aren't "off American's backs".

And

Guns in no way intimidate US lawmakers.

The UK has the laws it has, because of the politicians it elects. Same with the US.

Guns don't enter into the equation.

You can BELIEVE they do, but it's not backed up by fact.

reply to post by captainnotsoobvious

Hmm let's see...a labour government wanted secret trials and all phones, emails and internet use monitored, the conservative opposition was against it.
Now the conservative government wants all those things...sure, it really matters who you vote for...

People here have very little protection against the state, far less than appears to be the case in the US. Stop and search, the right to enter your home, getting deported without a proper trial, all things that are routine for a UK subject, but rare for a US citizen.

Hell, if someone breaks into your house and you beat the cr@p out of them its likely that you'll do more time than the burglar.

reply to post by SprocketUK


You apparently just don't know what's going on in the US. The FBI was recently told they could suspend all laws if they wanted to, in the US, the government can easily spy on all your communication in the US, and search you, no probs, and enter your house, because after the patriot act, getting a no-knock warrant is dead simple.

In the US I had cops, on two separate occasions, threaten to plant evidence on me, if I didn't agree to let them search my car (as part of routine traffic stops).

Nothing you said is any different in the US and is in many cases worse.

And btw: It's NOT common for UK citizens to get deported without due process. That's just being dishonest.

And you're just uninformed about the state of the US...

reply to post by captainnotsoobvious

In the US you get a trial before you are extradited, not here.
So you met some bad cops, that doesn't negate the law.
A no knock warrant still has to be signed off. No warrant is needed here.

My point was that constitutional rights are in a small way upheld by the ability to own a gun.
An armed populace is much harder to push around than an unarmed one.

Why must laws always punish the majority of the law abiding citizens for the actions of the nutcase fringe? Unless those actions are merely an excuse to act, such as Hungerford and Dunblane.

Originally posted by Strainz

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by lacrimaererum

Anyone who owns a gun and is willing to take the life of another human is a psychopath.

Anyone who owns a gun and is willing to protect the life of another human is a hero.

That's what guns are for.

Let's just say gun laws came in 2 weeks ago, you don't have a gun anymore, damn. You're living close to a dangerous neighbourhood, guns are still present in this neighbourhood, they arn't registered with the state, you and all your friends now have no guns, look who's kicking your front door in... You go to reach for your gun, it's not there, POP POP POP, your family is dead.

I DO live in a rough neighborhood, not just close. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. That exact scenario - knothead came in the back door. Between a 12 gauge and a large dog who is mostly teeth, he saw the error of his ways and found Jesus - at a dead run.

They can make all the laws they want - my gun ain't going nowhere until I do. None of MY guns are registered with the state, either. That's not a requirement around here, and if it ever is, I'll ignore it. Ain't none of the states' business.

reply to post by SprocketUK


You get a trial if they want you to have a trial ...

There's literally thousands of cases of people being screwed by the US justice system... ATS is full of them... the point being that the US system is just as screwy...and there's NO CORRELATION between people owning guns and laws on extradition...

reply to post by captainnotsoobvious

Hmm, so if a US citizen posts links to illegal streams of Doctor Who, the BBC can demand his ass is thrown in Wormwood Scrubs indefinitely, eh? Don't think so mate, but that's the official line when it comes to UK subjects and US companies.

Sure, not everything is rosy in the US, my point was that perhaps large gun ownership keeps the state from becoming overbearing and unaccountable as has become the case over here.

Just seen your post about gun deaths.
In 1997 there were over 40k deaths cos of cars etc.
You want to save lives? Make cars slow and bouncy.
www.publicpurpose.com...

reply to post by nenothtu


For every one of these types of stories there must be a dozen cases of people being accidentally shot.

Here's some stats from 1999:

In 1999, 3,385 children and youth ages 0-19 years were killed with a gun. This includes homicides, suicides, and unintentional injuries.
This is equivalent to about 9 deaths per day, a figure commonly used by journalists.
The 3,385 firearms-related deaths for age group 0-19 years breaks down to:
214 unintentional
1,078 suicides
1,990 homicides
83 for which the intent could not be determined
20 due to legal intervention
Of the total firearms-related deaths:
73 were of children under five years old
416 were children 5-14 years old
2,896 were 15-19 years old

wiki.answers.com...

Originally posted by sting130u

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by Meekbot2000

i'd like to see how many actually would shoot military/govt officials when they came for the guns.

The best way to find out is to send them after our guns.

Your first problem is going to be finding enough of them locally to agree to do the deed.

If you have to send in imports, they'll be dealt with rough - but of course they won't be expecting it like the locals would.

Because they, like you, seem to think it would never go that way. Oddly, if you think we're all that dangerous, why do you think we suddenly wouldn't be?

muhahaha

Troops I know and military members, current and former, all know the Constitution. They know why the second amendment is there. I am willing to bet if they were sent to collect our guns, they would hand out 2 autos, 3 pistols, and enough ammo to last for a small army to every house. How brainwashed do you believe them to be?

Ready made gun caches? You have no idea... or maybe you do!

Seriously, if they have at it, people who have never held a gun in their life will suddenly find that they have access to arsenals, and not just firearms. If outsiders think the US is a war zone now, all they have to do is try to fix that to find out what a war zone really looks like!

reply to post by SprocketUK


UK student faces five years in US prison for copyright infringement

www.v3.co.uk...

On top of that the US government has been trying to create a harsher system than the UK has... ever hear of SOPA and PIPA?

On top of ALL of that, the US currently has laws which allow people to be sent to prison for 10 years for copywrite infringement.

So, yeah, you can go to prison for online piracy. Guns didn't prevent that from happening.

Guns haven't prevented any law from being passed... that's a fantasy.