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Time to take the gun from the American public!

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posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by truthseeker808
 


No, nuts because you view them as being crucial to democracy, nuts because you think a country with 350M people needs 70M guns. Nuts because you think all the statistics that show America would be safer without guns are somehow lies.

Guns don't make America safer and are the main weapon, by far, used to commit murder. America's homicide rate is 3-4x higher than that in Europe.

Them are the REAL facts.

That and that the gun lobby spends billions to influence policy. They're a big business, like big oil and big pharma and are just as (un)trustworthy.


1)Id like to see any statistics that prove america would be safer without guns. I hear this claim all the time, yet I have NEVER seen any legitimate backing for the claim.

2)I dont recall people saying guns are crucial to democracy. On the contrary, they are detrimental to tyranny, which is the point.

3)Americas murder rate is higher, but you fail to mention the fact that in america, we also still have our freedom. "Those who sacrifice freedom for safety deserve neither". Personally, I enjoy living free, even if it means there is a higher crime rate in this country. And frankly, comparing to different countries and thinking that because one thing has worked in one country, it would work in all, is downright ignorant.

4)If the gun lobby spends so much to push an agenda, why is GUN CONTROL always the topic on the table, and not DEREGULATION?
edit on 4-4-2012 by captaintyinknots because: (no reason given)


1) Look at the prevalence of guns, look at the percentage of murders by guns, look at similar stat in other countries, get back to me.

2) Right, as I said most people on here seem to think America is in the grips of tyranny of some sort... guns didn't stop that from happening, eh?

3) See 2. Most Americans on ATS, and gun nuts in general, seem to think their freedom is endlessly being eroded... and they have guns... again, guns aren't ACTUALLY protecting their freedom.

4) Gun control is always the topic because of the sheer amount of Americans killed by guns every day. Guess what though, guns aren't being reigned in because the gun lobby is powerful.


edit on 4-4-2012 by captainnotsoobvious because: (no reason given)


1) Nope. Show me the evidence that AMERICA would be safer without guns. That is what you claimed. Back it up, or admit it is nothing but speculation on your part.

2)You obviously dont understand what tyranny is.

3)Again, you are naive of what you are saying. I own two guns. I am not a gun nut. I will use them if my safety is threatened. They are not there for use because my opinion may be that my freedoms are being erroded. It called RESPONSIBLE gun ownership, and most gun owners fit into that category.

4)So, your contention is that, even though, by your own assertion, the gun lobby is big and powerful just like big oil, they cant keep the control laws from being put into place? 'Cuz guess what....gun laws get more and more stringent all the time in america. Seems your logic has some holes in it.




posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by Freenrgy2
reply to post by lacrimaererum
 


Funny, one of the hot trending topics on the front page of ATS at the moment is about someone being a paid internet shill.

I think you're one of them. Go away.


yes. if you had read a few pages back you would see that someone has linked it and claimed i am the paid internet shill.

looks like this shill thread will be the new reference for people to throw at folks they don't like reading.

classy.



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 01:49 PM
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Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by BenReclused
 


Because you're full of #?

The US has 4x the murder rate of Ireland, for instance.

So that's just a lie.

AS for Canada, Canada has a huge number of guns and still has plenty of rape... so... maybe Americans just like murder and Canadians are just into rape... both have a huge number of guns and both have crime... because, guess what, guns don't stop crime.

Now stop your lying.


lol, this is awesome. In the last page Canada has been used as an example of what gun control can do to help, and, conversely, that crime still happens even though they have guns.

Talk about circular logic.



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 01:50 PM
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reply to post by BenReclused
 


No because brainiac those are just the stats for EUROPE.

Is the US in Europe?

Do you need help answering that?

Why not pay attention?

Go here and see the REAL stats:

en.wikipedia.org...

US 4.8

Ireland 1.25



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 01:51 PM
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Time to take the gun from the American public!,


I own guns. In fact, I own several but I've never killed anyone with them.

So, you want to steal my fire arms because of what someone else did?

Do we take cars away from the world population because a few misuse them and drive drunk?
Do you outlaw fry pans because a housewife in Oklahoma bashes her cheating old man over the head?

My cold, dead fingers. That's what you'll have to achieve.



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious


2) Right, as I said most people on here seem to think America is in the grips of tyranny of some sort... guns didn't stop that from happening, eh?


How can we know for sure, it has not happened here, but the stage is set.
But hide and watch, I hope us gun owners never have to prove it to you, but we will if we have too.
edit on 4-4-2012 by Skewed because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 01:53 PM
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reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


Canada's crime rate has NOTHING to do with it's citizens owning a lot of guns.

Go look at it's murder rate, and the percentage of those involving guns... that's a much better and telling statistic.

Or go look at the country with the 7th highest gun ownership rate per capita... check out how safe it is...



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 01:54 PM
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reply to post by Skewed
 


Sorry, are you saying that American democracy is healthy? You should check out this cool forum called ATS, you may change your mind.



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by BenReclused
reply to post by Alfie1
 



It's obviously a matter for those living in the US but if I was trying to bring up a family there I would be concerned that my country had many times the gun murder rate per head of say the UK or even next door neighbour Canada .

I looked at crime in Canada. They have more rapes and assaults per capita than the US does. Perhaps guns prevent many of those in the United States.

Australia, New Zealand, and Ireland have many more murders per capita than the United States, and they all have very strict gun control laws. Why is that?

See ya,
Milt


I don't know about rapes and assaults in Canada but you are way off with your assertion that Australia, New Zealand and Ireland have higher per capita murder rates than the US :-

en.wikipedia.org...

The US is top of the class for developed western countries.



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


Canada's crime rate has NOTHING to do with it's citizens owning a lot of guns.

Go look at it's murder rate, and the percentage of those involving guns... that's a much better and telling statistic.

Or go look at the country with the 7th highest gun ownership rate per capita... check out how safe it is...



You're still dancing around the point here. You claimed it, prove it. Heck, for that matter, touch on any of the counter arguments i brought up, instead of avoiding the challenge.



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 01:56 PM
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Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by Skewed
 


Sorry, are you saying that American democracy is healthy? You should check out this cool forum called ATS, you may change your mind.


so ats is a snapshot of the whole population of a country?



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


Canada's crime rate has NOTHING to do with it's citizens owning a lot of guns.





soooooo.....Canadas crime rate has nothing to do with its guns. But america's has EVERYTHING to do with its guns?

Circular logic at its best.



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by Christie
 


Ridiculous hyperbole.

Instead of using ideology use facts.

Europe has a lot more gun control, and allows hunting with guns, and has a MUCH lower murder rate.

Open your eyes...

Did guns stop Citizens United? Did they stop the US from Invading Iraq? Stop the banks from ripping off everyone? Stop political corruption?

No.

Guns can't solve any of the REAL threats to democracy.

Are they used in 10s of thousands of murders in the US?

yep.


facts? NY - no guns...crime rate? well...you do that math.

guns can stop the new nazis (by whatever neo-name they use) from ripping my children from my arms and loading them on to trains.

i'm non-violent, antiwar, and anti-revolution.
but i'm for self-defense.

1) the crooks will always have guns, and if the crook knows i'm packing heat he may be less inclined to try it.
at the very least if he does a home invasion he's going out on a gurney.
2) the fascist gov't knows i'm packing heat, and that is slowing down the takeover.

"Guns can't solve any of the REAL threats to democracy"? LOL!

the threat to democracy is Fascist, Lawless gov't.

you do what you want.
i'll be protecting my family.


democracy is a scam anyways.
edit on 4-4-2012 by Christie because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-4-2012 by Christie because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 01:58 PM
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reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


I responded to your other post, point by point.

America's got a ton of guns, and a very high murder rate, compared to other countries with similar economies and incomes.

That obv means guns aren't keeping it safe.



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 01:59 PM
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Originally posted by Christie

Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by Christie
 


Ridiculous hyperbole.

Instead of using ideology use facts.

Europe has a lot more gun control, and allows hunting with guns, and has a MUCH lower murder rate.

Open your eyes...

Did guns stop Citizens United? Did they stop the US from Invading Iraq? Stop the banks from ripping off everyone? Stop political corruption?

No.

Guns can't solve any of the REAL threats to democracy.

Are they used in 10s of thousands of murders in the US?

yep.


facts? NY - no guns...crime rate? well...you do that math.

guns can stop the new nazis (by whatever neo-name they use) from ripping my children from my arms and loading them on to trains.

i'm non-violent, antiwar, and anti-revolution.
but i'm for self-defense.

1) the crooks will always have guns, and if the crook knows i'm packing heat he may be less inclined to try it.
at the very least if he does a home invasion he's going out on a gurney.
2) the fascist gov't knows i'm packing heat, and that is slowing down the takeover.

"Guns can't solve any of the REAL threats to democracy"? LOL!

the threat to democracy is Fascist, Lawless gov't.

democracy is a scam anyways.
edit on 4-4-2012 by Christie because: (no reason given)


Sorry, so your worried about nazis?

And you think democracy is a sham?

Good luck.



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 02:00 PM
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Who cares who when how or why?

Government tyranny doesnt matter.

Self defense doesnt matter.

Crime stats dont matter.

All that matter is that it is my property.

Just like the mug on my desk or the watch on my wrist.

It is mine. I dont have to justify it and I dont give two flying #s how you feel about it. It's mine.



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 02:01 PM
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Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


I responded to your other post, point by point.

America's got a ton of guns, and a very high murder rate, compared to other countries with similar economies and incomes.

That obv means guns aren't keeping it safe.



No you didnt, you dodged each and every point i made, most notably the request that you back uyp your statement that there is proof that america is safer without guns.

So, again, go on. PROVE IT.



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 02:03 PM
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reply to post by TerribleTeam2
 


It's easy to talk tough when sitting behind a computer screen.

That's even easier when one is pointing a gun at an unarmed person. Criminals do that all the time. It's very rare for a law abiding citizen to do such.

See ya,
Milt



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 02:03 PM
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When people buy vehicles, we generally don't expect people to use it to kill people.
But what happens? People STILL die from car accidents AND from being intentionally 'ran-over'

Guns in general are expected to kill people.
Yet, the death tolls from vehicles are over 1000% greater than the death tolls of both intentional and unintentional discharge.

Obviously, anti-gun advocates aren't arguing for the sake of providing a safer environment. They are arguing out of the FEAR of armed and responsible citizens.



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 02:05 PM
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reply to post by DZAG Wright
 


You're totally missing the point. There is absolutely nothing to gain from banning firearms. Like I said before, I rather take my chances by freezing up when the time comes, rather than not even having a gun to defend myself. Because , once again, regardless of the laws, the criminal will have a gun.

And do you know what every single person will do in that sort of situation? Will they all freeze up?

As for your views on gun owners and their unwillingness to hand over firearms in the event they were to be confiscated, sure they might die, but they would die defending their freedoms. Rather than bending over and taking it.

The Norwegian Foreign Minister said "We will not submit voluntarily, the struggle is already underway" when faced with Nazi occupation of Norway. Would you have preferred the Norwegians to lay down and accept it?


"I rather die on my feet, than live on my knees"



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