Rival Emperor Stakes Claim to Japanese Throne, Shows Evidence Of 8,000 Yr Old Sumerian Object. PICS!

Originally posted by wildbillsteamcock
While this is an interesting story and fun to discuss, the likelihood of it being true is just astronomically low. The Japanese take their birth records seriously, and they are far more detailed than what is seen in the West. The "birth certificates" in Japan are akin to a pedigree. You must have a stated residence, your siblings are listed, your parents' lineage is stated, etc. While not out of the realm of possibility for one individual to forge their birth record, for an entire population to do so borders on ludicrous. Anyone with adequate historical research skills could prove this case definitively one way or the other very easily. Again, interesting story and possible, but near improbable.

A whole population didn't do that.....

How is it hard to think that somebody who was corrupt enough to even try to take over a true dynasty wouldn't then try and cover it up.

That is like saying anybody who has lied ....it would be impossible or improbable for them to try and cover it up.

Almost the exact opposite of what you stated is true, and why there is a possible chance this could be true.

At least you are keeping an open mind though, some people would just says it isn't true ....and then insert "knowledge" as to why.

reply to post by SonOfTheLawOfOne


uhh....Asians use symbols for whole words in a lot of their language .

That is why Chinese ( I believe Mandarin ) has over 3,000 individual characters.

That is like you reading a chinese childrens book and saying it is fake because none of them repeat. All along not knowing that there are an additional 2,000 + symbols you have yet to discover.

Originally posted by LucidDreamer85
reply to post by SonOfTheLawOfOne

 

uhh....Asians use symbols for whole words in a lot of their language .

That is why Chinese ( I believe Mandarin ) has over 3,000 individual characters.

That is like you reading a chinese childrens book and saying it is fake because none of them repeat. All along not knowing that there are an additional 2,000 + symbols you have yet to discover.

You must have misunderstood my post.

Secondly, we are talking about ANCIENT Chinese, which is not the same as current Mandarin, which is a far more advanced form of writing than Oracle bones or Lesser Seal Chinese.

I'm fairly well versed in etymology with a specialized "interest" in ancient languages. I've seen many, and the first thing I noticed was that the stone tablet is not even remotely current. As soon as I saw it, I knew it was a pre-AD language, but none that I was familiar with. There are plenty of languages that I'm not familiar with, I'll admit that... but many more that I am.

All forms of ancient languages started with pictographs - shapes and pictures to represent what they were trying to convey. Most of the time, they match the object, like a sun or a moon or an eye, etc. As they became more advanced, they reduced pictures to words and letters. With me so far?

That tablet is NOT a pictograph. It is somewhere halfway between pictographic and phonetic. So, if you're still with me, I apply a little bit of common sense. The claim is that they are the 10 commandments, which have repeating words all throughout. By that logic, you would expect to see SOME repeating symbols, even if it's just one. NOPE.

Taking this one step further, he throws in Sumerian into the mix. Have you ever looked at Sumerian? That tablet is definitely not it. It is also not Babylonian, Akkadian, from Ur, Mesopotamia, or Egypt. Those are pretty easy to rule out right away. Being that he is Japanese, that leaves only 3 languages that make sense to suggest are in the tablet. Those are ANCIENT (since he says the tablet is 5000 years old) Chinese, Japanese (which comes from Chinese) and Korean (which has some controversy of its own, for another time). You could also check Sanskrit and will find that it doesn't match either, so that rules out Indonesian connections. (even though there is debate of its link to the Chinese)

Still with me? So... what we're REALLY left with here is ANCIENT Chinese and Japanese because the Korean language looks very different from the others.

Now... with those, you can look in any article or book on ancient Chinese and Japanese and see that it more closely matches Chinese, specifically to the Lesser Seal period. There are not 2000+ symbols at this time, far less. A few of them match very closely to ones in the tablet, which I've already pointed out, and which lends credibility to the story.

Hope that makes better sense and gives you context to how I arrived to my conclusion on my uhhhhhhh.... silly logic.

~Namaste

I said I was going to leave this alone till tomorrow but I wanted share something with you, that I am trying to do.

If I or we can find at least 5 symbols that are identical with another language then its easier for us to figure out the time frame. I am by far in remedial ancient language, but I am trying to use common sense.

I am not going with the "typical" 10 commandments. I think that the story told here would be far more "spiritual", or even a manual, or instructions.

The pictograph as far as I can tell is going to be a bit harder to look into, because we think of him being Japanese, him claiming to be of Abrahamic lineage, and possible Sumerian tablets. Yes, I am confused as well, but thats what makes it more interesting.

Since we cannot hold this to one particular line, we have to search or three, or maybe more.

Peace, NRE.

the only conclusion that should be drawn from this junk is that the person making the claims doesn't know jack about chinese, japanese, sumarian, or israelite history.
not one of those peoples existed 8 thousand years ago, sumer is maybe some where around 5 thousand, and china was around 4 thousand.
honestly how much work does it take to understand the history of japan around the 17th century? the emperor had very little power, the power base was squarely place in the shoguns that ruled their own states. where the heck does the guy get the idea that foreign armies invaded japan? where is his evidence?

this is just nonsense, the babble of frauds.

Does this story bring to mind Edgar Cayce's claim that one day Asia will be, "The seat of Christianity," for anyone else? If I am correct he said China, specifically, but I assume you have to leave room for error when reviewing a prophecy.

Cool thread. The myth behind these three artifacts is intriguing.

The only way he's going to get recognition as the rightful emperor of Japan is his ability to call out Amaterasu from the underworld. He needs to demonstrate this before numerous eye witnesses. He should place his three sacred objects at the opening of a deep cave on the island of Honshu, somewhere near Ise-Jingue. If he causes a Fu Fighter to shoot out of the cave, one that eventually hovers above him, then he is the true emperor of Japan.

Myths and legends around the world are so interesting. Especially when there are artifacts to go along with them

this is amazing news

See, I was interested in this until I read:

According to Onodera, when foreign armies invaded Japan in the 1850’s and 1860’s, they found the Japanese government owned 3/4ths of the world’s known supply of silver. In order to get their hands on it, they supplied an impoverished Northern lineage with rifles that could shoot 400 meters while they sold the richer Southern “legitimate” lineage rifles that could only shoot 100 meters. The symbol of the Northern Army’s flag was a 5-pointed star, the symbol of Lucifer, also known as Satan. The Southerners were massacred and foreign banking families got their hands on some of the treasure.

That doesn't make sense. It was the Southern Clans of Satsuma and Choshu that overthrew the Northern based Shogunate of Tokugawa. It is also important to point out that the Emperor remained the Emperor thoughout the Meiji restoration. The war wasn't about getting silver, but rather a conflict between the Shogun and the Emperor about the path that should be taken with regards to modernising Japan and dealing with the Foreigners...

Also, the symbol of the Northern Tokugawa was not a 5 pointed star, but rather a flower of some kind. The imperial symbol is a chrysanthemum..

No where have I seen a five pointed star...

reply to post by stumason


I think he is claiming that history isn't being truthful...

Let's just say he's telling the truth.

It would like if Sitting Bulls great great great grandson put in a claim for America. History changes courses through a number of means, most often wars, the losing side rarely comes out well.

It's a great story, and the artifacts look neat, but in the end it's just another story.

Originally posted by SonOfTheLawOfOne
So... what we're REALLY left with here is ANCIENT Chinese and Japanese because the Korean language looks very different from the others.

Now... with those, you can look in any article or book on ancient Chinese and Japanese and see that it more closely matches Chinese, specifically to the Lesser Seal period. There are not 2000+ symbols at this time, far less. A few of them match very closely to ones in the tablet, which I've already pointed out, and which lends credibility to the story.

Hope that makes better sense and gives you context to how I arrived to my conclusion on my uhhhhhhh.... silly logic.

~Namaste

I was just randomly reading this thread. I have no horse in this race. I just wanted to point something out.

The Japanese written language is derived from Ancient Chinese. The Japanese only gained literacy about 500 AD. Chinese is far more ancient. The Chinese taught the Japanese literacy. So it would make sense the characters look Chinese.

Originally posted by SonOfTheLawOfOne
I did some digging through the archives of ancient scripts and pictographs. I believe it is ancient Chinese, but I can't determine what period. There are two symbols that I am confident are Chinese for "sun" and for "king".

Well, in Chinese, "Ri" is the word for sun, and it looks like a box with a line in the middle, or a really square number 8. It is also the Chinese word for Japan, or Japanese. Riwen is Japanese culture, or written Japanese language, Riguo is Japan, Riguoren is Japanese person etc.

So the Chinese characters for "Japan" and "King" are there, which would technically make sense. Even the most rudimentary fake would get this right, I am sure, so it doesnt really prove anything actually this proves it isnt an 8000 year old Sumerian tablet! I was confusing the tablet and the other artifacts....i thought the sword had Japan and King on it, as it is supposed to, but looking at the pic of the sword shows a different symbol.

Originally posted by SonOfTheLawOfOne
These appear to be writings from the Lesser Seal of ancient Chinese, but there are some minor differences that seem like they pre-date the Lesser Seal, but post-date Oracle bones.

I think you are dead on here, I read this after I made above posts. That would appear to make these relics, if what we know is accurate, and the tablet authentic, somewhere around 500BC to 100AD (or later obviously, if faked...it could have been faked in 500 AD). So It shouldnt be too hard to have it translated by a Chinese language professor perhaps. It would be interesting if it contained 10 Commandments-like commandments, or a moral code.

Originally posted by NoRegretsEver
reply to post by SonOfTheLawOfOne

 

Was wondering if you see what I see, I think I may have found a few more.

Hey, neat pics. Its interesting to see ancient symbols on the left as opposed to the ones on the right which I am more familiar with.

reply to post by NoRegretsEver



I find it strange that this is not being talked about. Ignored almost. Truth has a way of doing that, shutting everyone up.

Originally posted by cranspace
reply to post by NoRegretsEver

 

True or false i don't know

Naoshi Onodera holding what he claims is an 8000 year old Sumerian object, the Japanese imperial “Jewel.”

But if this is a genuine lump of jade thousands of years old it would be worth millions
He'll probably get whacked by a triad now

Cran

Every chunk of Jade is at least thousands of years old. Probably MILLIONS of years old.

Originally posted by WatchRider
reply to post by stumason

 

I think he is claiming that history isn't being truthful...

Obviously....

But to be that different is something else entirely. It would involve forging not only the Meiji restoration, but around 1,000 years of history before that which led to the restoration in the first place....

very interesting threat OP. I was wondering is it only me or does the animal at the back of the tablet resemble a reindeer? Anyone confirm the size of the antlers and butt and tail to say which type of deer it is and where it may have resided 8000 years ago? That may be a clue...but then I have no idea about these things. Maybe they have that kind of deer in Japan and or china.

reply to post by SonOfTheLawOfOne


From my limited knowledge of Kanji (2nd grade level knowing more than 2,000 so far, haha), "King" appears both on the tablet and the middle symbol on the sword. Knowing that modern Japanese are descendants from the mainland, and the original Jomon natives certainly didn't have writing to that degree, I'd have to guess that the tablet is written in a very early Chinese script. It's really neat to be able to see the transition from pictograph to writing, as you mentioned, and it would take painstaking work to forge something of this nature. Very eager to see how this plays out (or if it plays at all, haha).

reply to post by stumason


All it would take is for Mutsuhito to be a fake heir to the throne...it all turned out rather well for the Nanban in the end, eh?