Is it moral to kill when a cure options is available?

Is it moral to kill when a cure options is available?

It is said that God can do whatever he likes. He is after all, God. He created everything and can destroy it at a whim if he chooses to do so. I do not believe this but will grant it as a truth for this O P.

Given that God can kill or cure, and given that we are to emulate, follow and try to be like him; it would seem that we too are to believe that sometimes it is better to kill than cure. I cannot think of any good situation to do this but that is just me. Perhaps you can.

Scriptures show God killing many or having men kill many. Scriptures show God curing on a few occasions but killing seems to be his preferred method.

Life, be it from God or nature, should be venerated. God does not seem to venerate human life even as he claims man to be his most precious and loved creation and even placing us above the angels. This indicates that he should venerate our lives yet it does not seem to.

In our human world, if a doctor who could cure his patient decided to kill him, he would be jailed and considered an evil person. In the believer world, a God who could cure and decides to kill is considered good and praised for his killing. A double standard. I hope that we will all agree that for a human to kill, when a cure option is available, is evil and immoral. If you do not; please do not reply.

Is it moral for God to kill when a cure options is available?

Does your God need to have good morals or does it matter?

Regards
DL

Love this post.

The God of the OT certainly seems rather bloodthirsty. My favorite part was when the father gave his daughter to a mob to be raped, murdered, and dismembered.

I suppose the only way I could reply to your query would be that perhaps God knows better than us what should happen, ergo withholding a cure could lead to a greater good. If this is the case, then God would still be moral and good.

Originally posted by Greatest I am
and given that we are to emulate, follow and try to be like him

I cannot see how, in any way, we could define morality as emulating God. Especially the God of the old testament.

So, I'd say at least, that we can discuss specific situations and the morality of possible courses of actions, without ever citing what any god would have done in that situation. Instead of saying "OT God would slaughter, we should emulate that to be moral", we can instead look at the details, analyze what harm is caused by what options we take, and trust our empathy for the feelings of others.

~
I know this question is geared towards those who may feel like that's the terms for being moral, however, it just needs to be pointed out that most people go by better terms than that.

reply to post by Greatest I am

Life, be it from God or nature, should be venerated. God does not seem to venerate human life even as he claims man to be his most precious and loved creation and even placing us above the angels. This indicates that he should venerate our lives yet it does not seem to.

Your mistake is you are lumping God in with humans. He is as far beyond us, as we are beyond a pissant. He has already stated in the bible that his concerns are not our concerns.

Isaiah 55:8-9

8“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord.
9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts.


If you want to understand Yahweh, you look at Jesus because thats who he is. I suggest you read that entire chapter, not that it will do you any good. Thats all i have to say.

reply to post by smyleegrl

The God of the OT certainly seems rather bloodthirsty. My favorite part was when the father gave his daughter to a mob to be raped, murdered, and dismembered

You think this God who says this is blood thirsty?

Isaiah 55

“Ho! Everyone who thirsts,
Come to the waters;
And you who have no money,
Come, buy and eat.
Yes, come, buy wine and milk
Without money and without price.
2 Why do you spend money for what is not bread,
And your wages for what does not satisfy?
Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good,
And let your soul delight itself in abundance.
3 Incline your ear, and come to Me.
Hear, and your soul shall live;
And I will make an everlasting covenant with you—
The sure mercies of David.
4 Indeed I have given him as a witness to the people,
A leader and commander for the people.
5 Surely you shall call a nation you do not know,
And nations who do not know you shall run to you,
Because of the Lord your God,
And the Holy One of Israel;
For He has glorified you.”

6 Seek the Lord while He may be found,
Call upon Him while He is near.
7 Let the wicked forsake his way,
And the unrighteous man his thoughts;
Let him return to the Lord,
And He will have mercy on him;
And to our God,
For He will abundantly pardon.

8 “For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord.
9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts.

10 “For as the rain comes down, and the snow from heaven,
And do not return there,
But water the earth,
And make it bring forth and bud,
That it may give seed to the sower
And bread to the eater,
11 So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth;
It shall not return to Me void,
But it shall accomplish what I please,
And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.

12 “For you shall go out with joy,
And be led out with peace;
The mountains and the hills
Shall break forth into singing before you,
And all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.
13 Instead of the thorn shall come up the cypress tree,
And instead of the brier shall come up the myrtle tree;
And it shall be to the Lord for a name,
For an everlasting sign that shall not be cut off.”

You talk about that which you know absolutely nothing about, pure ignorance.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


4
Where were you [Job] when I laid the foundations of the earth?
Speak if you have understanding!
5
Who fixed its dimensions? Surely you know!
Or who measured it with a line?
6
On what were its bases sunk?Job 38:4-6

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

The God of the OT certainly seems rather bloodthirsty. My favorite part was when the father gave his daughter to a mob to be raped, murdered, and dismembered

You think this God who says this is blood thirsty?

*Long Scripture*

Cherry Picking at it's finest. A single, semi-loving quote and leaving out all the hate.

Malachi 2:2-3 New International Version (NIV) 2 If you do not listen, and if you do not resolve to honor my name,” says the LORD Almighty, “I will send a curse on you, and I will curse your blessings. Yes, I have already cursed them, because you have not resolved to honor me. 3 “Because of you I will rebuke your descendants[a]; I will smear on your faces the dung from your festival sacrifices, and you will be carried off with it.

As many(few) "loving" segments you may be able to provide, I can provide many more showing the nature the OP was referencing. Lets not play that game. I recommend anyone pick up the old testament and read it. You need the whole thing to see the context that those bits of 'love' are but tiny droplets in a massive sea of mostly hate.

~
Invoking Godwins law here, but does this sound like a genocidal war mongerer?

Germany is at all times prepared to renounce offensive weapons if the rest of the world does the same. Germany is prepared to agree to any solemn pact of non-aggression because she does not think of attacking anybody but only of acquiring security.

Even Hitler, can be made to sound like a good guy if you go through all of his horrific actions and only pick out the best parts. However, we all know how terrible he was. What you're doing, is prying on the fact that most people don't know the context of all of Yahwehs even more horrific actions, and picking out only the most loving and peaceful examples to make your point.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

The God of the OT certainly seems rather bloodthirsty. My favorite part was when the father gave his daughter to a mob to be raped, murdered, and dismembered

You think this God who says this is blood thirsty?

Isaiah 55

“Ho! Everyone who thirsts,
Come to the waters;
And you who have no money,
Come, buy and eat.
Yes, come, buy wine and milk
Without money and without price.
2 Why do you spend money for what is not bread,
And your wages for what does not satisfy?
Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good,
And let your soul delight itself in abundance.
3 Incline your ear, and come to Me.
Hear, and your soul shall live;
And I will make an everlasting covenant with you—
The sure mercies of David.
4 Indeed I have given him as a witness to the people,
A leader and commander for the people.
5 Surely you shall call a nation you do not know,
And nations who do not know you shall run to you,
Because of the Lord your God,
And the Holy One of Israel;
For He has glorified you.”

6 Seek the Lord while He may be found,
Call upon Him while He is near.
7 Let the wicked forsake his way,
And the unrighteous man his thoughts;
Let him return to the Lord,
And He will have mercy on him;
And to our God,
For He will abundantly pardon.

8 “For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord.
9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts.

10 “For as the rain comes down, and the snow from heaven,
And do not return there,
But water the earth,
And make it bring forth and bud,
That it may give seed to the sower
And bread to the eater,
11 So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth;
It shall not return to Me void,
But it shall accomplish what I please,
And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.

12 “For you shall go out with joy,
And be led out with peace;
The mountains and the hills
Shall break forth into singing before you,
And all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.
13 Instead of the thorn shall come up the cypress tree,
And instead of the brier shall come up the myrtle tree;
And it shall be to the Lord for a name,
For an everlasting sign that shall not be cut off.”

You talk about that which you know absolutely nothing about, pure ignorance.

So, just because I disagree with your opinion, I'm ignorant. Heaven help us.
Who do you think wrote the verses above? God? Nope. It was Isaiah. Its Isaiah's viewpoint about God.

As another member pointed out, we could trade verses all day long, but that is pointless.

reply to post by Greatest I am


A man who couldn't swim jumped into a swimming pool, just because he could and there was no lifegaurd on duty. A passerby heard his cries "help me! i can't swim! somebody save me, help, help!". The passerby vaults over the fence and grabs the emergency rescue float and throws it next to the drowning man, but the drowning man refused to grab the device and so he drowned.

Whose fault is it he died?

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Is it moral to kill when a cure options is available?

It is said that God can do whatever he likes. He is after all, God. He created everything and can destroy it at a whim if he chooses to do so.

Is it moral for God to kill when a cure options is available?

The assumption that life on Earth is the culmination and sole reason for our existence is the flaw in this logic. There is more to existence than the ability for your human body to function properly. In fact it's quite clear that Adam and Eve were removed from the Garden because taking the Tree of Life as humans would have been a curse. It would be immoral to prolong your existence in its current state forever.

Originally posted by smyleegrl
Love this post.

The God of the OT certainly seems rather bloodthirsty. My favorite part was when the father gave his daughter to a mob to be raped, murdered, and dismembered.

I suppose the only way I could reply to your query would be that perhaps God knows better than us what should happen, ergo withholding a cure could lead to a greater good. If this is the case, then God would still be moral and good.

Perhaps. But then, if you look at his other laws, we would find many other immoral ones.

Like his divorce law. Let no man put asunder says that even if a woman is beat twice a week, she must remain married. That means that love, the number one reason for marriage cannot be sought and she must live with her S O B of a husband.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by xxsomexpersonxx

Originally posted by Greatest I am
and given that we are to emulate, follow and try to be like him

I cannot see how, in any way, we could define morality as emulating God. Especially the God of the old testament.

So, I'd say at least, that we can discuss specific situations and the morality of possible courses of actions, without ever citing what any god would have done in that situation. Instead of saying "OT God would slaughter, we should emulate that to be moral", we can instead look at the details, analyze what harm is caused by what options we take, and trust our empathy for the feelings of others.

~
I know this question is geared towards those who may feel like that's the terms for being moral, however, it just needs to be pointed out that most people go by better terms than that.

I agree.
If believers live by biblical laws, most believers would be in jail.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

Life, be it from God or nature, should be venerated. God does not seem to venerate human life even as he claims man to be his most precious and loved creation and even placing us above the angels. This indicates that he should venerate our lives yet it does not seem to.

Your mistake is you are lumping God in with humans. He is as far beyond us, as we are beyond a pissant. He has already stated in the bible that his concerns are not our concerns.

Isaiah 55:8-9

8“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord.
9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts.


If you want to understand Yahweh, you look at Jesus because thats who he is. I suggest you read that entire chapter, not that it will do you any good. Thats all i have to say.

Yet morally speaking, Adam and Eve did just what you say we cannot do.
You are just too mentally lazy.

You would know this if your removed your head from within God's ass.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

A man who couldn't swim jumped into a swimming pool, just because he could and there was no lifegaurd on duty. A passerby heard his cries "help me! i can't swim! somebody save me, help, help!". The passerby vaults over the fence and grabs the emergency rescue float and throws it next to the drowning man, but the drowning man refused to grab the device and so he drowned.

Whose fault is it he died?

edit on 5-4-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)

God made him and did not love him enough to correct him. Perhaps like Esau, God hated him even in the womb.

Proverbs 3:12
For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by dbates

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Is it moral to kill when a cure options is available?

It is said that God can do whatever he likes. He is after all, God. He created everything and can destroy it at a whim if he chooses to do so.

Is it moral for God to kill when a cure options is available?

The assumption that life on Earth is the culmination and sole reason for our existence is the flaw in this logic. There is more to existence than the ability for your human body to function properly. In fact it's quite clear that Adam and Eve were removed from the Garden because taking the Tree of Life as humans would have been a curse. It would be immoral to prolong your existence in its current state forever.

A definitive statement like that needs definitive proof.
How many humans have you known who were not happy living forever?
Or are you saying this from faith without facts?
Is it opinion or knowledge?

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by smyleegrl
Love this post.

The God of the OT certainly seems rather bloodthirsty. My favorite part was when the father gave his daughter to a mob to be raped, murdered, and dismembered.

I suppose the only way I could reply to your query would be that perhaps God knows better than us what should happen, ergo withholding a cure could lead to a greater good. If this is the case, then God would still be moral and good.

Perhaps. But then, if you look at his other laws, we would find many other immoral ones.

Like his divorce law. Let no man put asunder says that even if a woman is beat twice a week, she must remain married. That means that love, the number one reason for marriage cannot be sought and she must live with her S O B of a husband.

Regards
DL

Love wasn't the number one reason for marriage then, and in many countries it still isn't. Women were bought and sold, traded like chattel. Parents arranged marriages for financial or political gain.

But you are absolutely right. The laws are unjust, culturally biased, and mysoginistic to boot. Not the sort of laws I would think a caring God to make.

Thanks for this.

Regards
DL