"Remember the Alamo" (but forget it was a Masonic treasure hunt in Mexico)

Originally posted by allprowolfy
Thus, the proof is in the pudding per se, why would so many men die for a concrete enclosure, unless there was something more valuable.

That "something more valuable" was the freedom of Texas from Mexico. They were outnumbered 10 to 1, which is why they died.

The Alamo does have a treasure room... and Pee Wee's bike is in it!

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by allprowolfy
Thus, the proof is in the pudding per se, why would so many men die for a concrete enclosure, unless there was something more valuable.

That "something more valuable" was the freedom of Texas from Mexico. They were outnumbered 10 to 1, which is why they died.

Recently I have heard this and it is disturbing.
Three men and a pilot board a plane to texas.
One a Mexican, one an american, and the other an italian.
During mid flight... the pilots yells out: "We shall surely die if one of you does not eject.
So... having heard the news... the italian says he will jump to death to let the others live.
So... He cries out "Viva Italia" and jumps to his death.
10 minutes later... the pilot yells out: "We shall surely die if one of you does not eject!"
So... having heard the news the american says ... "The hell with it! I'll do it!"
And he cries out "Remeber the Alamo" and grabs the mexican and throws him off the plane to his death...

Originally posted by emberscott

Originally posted by TheGuyFawkes
reply to post by emberscott

 

ive noticed that as well anytime someone posts something anti masonic at least 3 or 4 masons come in saying his claims are false, theres even a conspiracy out there saying ats is run by masons but if i post links to the sites my post will be marked as spam (ive tried)

Conspiracies abound. In truth nothing has yet been proved for or against the masonic orders. Therefore never become predisposed in judgement when perusing the subject. The open mind is a terrible thing to waste.

But the ridicule the op is met with in every thread should be addressed by the moderator people of this site.
As well as other posts I have read in this section of the forum.

edit on 3-4-2012 by emberscott because: (no reason given)

What do you say about the frustration we *other* posters feel, in never having a question responded to. Say you start a thread. Would you blatantly ignore other members who took the time and effort to read, much less post a reply/question. That in my opinion is downright rude. A sense of arrogance, demeaning at best.

Yet, you attempt to impose some type of *special* censorship for the OP of these threads.....

Get real....Des

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by emberscott
But the ridicule the op is met with in every thread should be addressed by the moderator people of this site.
As well as other posts I have read in this section of the forum.

In the earliest threads this OP posted on ATS he made claims to have photographic evidence of his so-called "treasure rooms". In creating 19 threads to date, he has yet to share any of those photos, even though he has stated that he would.

If he backed up a single one of his claims, he wouldn't get the ridicule that he is currently greeted with. But to continue to make such claims without even making the slightest attempt to back them up with facts, he simply portrays himself as either delusional or a hoax.

In whos time should the op proffer evidence? Yours? or the ops?

I see no delusion nor hoax. How can I? As I stated there has been nothing shown for or against to substatiate a judgement yet. Not even the image you provided of the memorial plaque. Of which states 'unidentified masons'
The statement of the image begs the question, Why unidentified?

But as for meeting ridicule I must site;

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord


Manners Are Required, Not Requested

We anticipate our members are here because of what ATS stands for and what makes us different. We stand firm on an aspirational ideal of supporting the free expression of nearly anything within the simple confines of polite decorum.

(1) We ATS members need to embrace and welcome those with highly speculative theories that may be based on little more than guesses. These are the ideas that help maintain the upper limits of what may be.

(2) We ATS members need to support the investigation of fantastic ideas based on evidentiary observations across the entire spectrum of our topics. These are the discussions that zero-in on what is likely to be.

(3) We ATS members need to encourage and welcome critical and skeptical questions that force us to look closely at our ideas and evidence. This is the process by which truth is discovered and we agree upon what is.

We ATS members need to realize all of three aspects of discussion are important to our motto of "Deny Ignorance." If you believe your theory, idea, or skepticism is critical to the discussion, than you owe it to yourself and the topic to present your ideas with the inherent credibility of deferential collaboration.

If you cannot participate under these amazingly simple guidelines, then we must assume you are more interested in the entertainment value of disruption and appropriate action will be taken. Simple.



We apologize that this reminded of our core ideology is required. Expect that this is a wake-up call that a renewed enforcement of civility will start now.

Thank you.

Originally posted by emberscott
In whos time should the op proffer evidence? Yours? or the ops?

Well, it's been two and a half weeks since he wrote "I have many pics of these treasure signs, so I'll see about getting some posted." In that two and a half weeks he's managed to create 17 new threads, yet not upload a single image.

Not even the image you provided of the memorial plaque. Of which states 'unidentified masons'
The statement of the image begs the question, Why unidentified?

There were only about 40 survivors of the massacre at the Alamo. Identifying the 200+ dead wasn't a particularly important task for Santa Anna's men. If some of the other Texas soldiers were Masons, there names have been lost to history.

Originally posted by Destinyone


What do you say about the frustration we *other* posters feel, in never having a question responded to. Say you start a thread. Would you blatantly ignore other members who took the time and effort to read, much less post a reply/question. That in my opinion is downright rude. A sense of arrogance, demeaning at best.

Yet, you attempt to impose some type of *special* censorship for the OP of these threads.....

Get real....Des

My first thought was to ignore you and this post. My second thought is to ask you to identify the irony in your post.

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by emberscott
In whos time should the op proffer evidence? Yours? or the ops?

Well, it's been two and a half weeks since he wrote "I have many pics of these treasure signs, so I'll see about getting some posted." In that two and a half weeks he's managed to create 17 new threads, yet not upload a single image.

I fail to relevance other than your personal desire to see the 'pics' the op claims to have. Of which may or may not be real. If they are real it for the op to decide on whether or not to disclose them.

Not even the image you provided of the memorial plaque. Of which states 'unidentified masons'
The statement of the image begs the question, Why unidentified?

There were only about 40 survivors of the massacre at the Alamo. Identifying the 200+ dead wasn't a particularly important task for Santa Anna's men. If some of the other Texas soldiers were Masons, there names have been lost to history.

So then the presence of these 33ers as well as the loss of history becomes moot. Is it possible 33ers were present? Is it possible that the history is not lost just not widely known?

Originally posted by emberscott

Originally posted by Destinyone


What do you say about the frustration we *other* posters feel, in never having a question responded to. Say you start a thread. Would you blatantly ignore other members who took the time and effort to read, much less post a reply/question. That in my opinion is downright rude. A sense of arrogance, demeaning at best.

Yet, you attempt to impose some type of *special* censorship for the OP of these threads.....

Get real....Des

My first thought was to ignore you and this post. My second thought is to ask you to identify the irony in your post.

I see you have appointed yourself as the OP's personal thread watchdog....how nice.....

Des

Originally posted by Destinyone

Originally posted by emberscott

Originally posted by Destinyone


What do you say about the frustration we *other* posters feel, in never having a question responded to. Say you start a thread. Would you blatantly ignore other members who took the time and effort to read, much less post a reply/question. That in my opinion is downright rude. A sense of arrogance, demeaning at best.

Yet, you attempt to impose some type of *special* censorship for the OP of these threads.....

Get real....Des

My first thought was to ignore you and this post. My second thought is to ask you to identify the irony in your post.

I see you have appointed yourself as the OP's personal thread watchdog....how nice.....

Des

A personal attack on myself is absolutely unwarranted. So you wish to bait me. I will bite. But rather than meet your attempt to disrail.


What exactly is it, written in the original post that you are at disagreement with?

reply to post by emberscott


I'm going to pull an OP...as in the OP here....I'll not be replying to any of your questions.....

Des

Originally posted by emberscott

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by dign4it
You may have noticed how most of my topics deal with treasure rooms,

Actually, what we've noticed is that 18 of the 19 threads you've started don't have a single link to substantiate them.

I have yet to see any evidence to the contrary either. Ironically.
Just posted attempts to berate the op. Even a moderator this time. Comical.

It doesn't fall to others to disprove a negative; just to the OP to prove his point with something.....anything at all that would support his as-yet unsubstantiated claim. Is "Deny ignorance" supposed to actually translate to 'Blindly accept any assertion whatsoever in order not to give offense' ?

Fitz

Whenever I think I've read the most ridiculous thread on ATS...

It would make for an interesting fictional short story or film, but that's about it. Nothing factual here.

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by allprowolfy
Thus, the proof is in the pudding per se, why would so many men die for a concrete enclosure, unless there was something more valuable.

That "something more valuable" was the freedom of Texas from Mexico. They were outnumbered 10 to 1, which is why they died.

Well, as a non-American I'd take issue with the use of the word "freedom" under the circumstances. Your country attempted a similar exercise in 'freedom' about 20 years before 'freedom' was rebuffed. However, the myth-making machine that's the States' true genius has left most of that territory undisturbed except for "The Star-Spangled Banner" and the Battle of New Orleans. I'm sure had the ultimate outcome favoured Mexico, the Alamo incident would be likewise consigned to history's dustbin as a minor incident in Mexican internal politics. [/derail]

Back OT, I wonder how the OP works-in the Masonic membership of Mexican general Santa Ana to things? I mean, aren't Freemasons everywhere supposed to be in cahoots for world domination? Or is it just US Freemasons?

Inquiring mind wants to know

Fitz

reply to post by Pinocchio

It could mean we'll never hear from him again.

Wouldn't that be nice!

I actually enjoy some of the anti-Masons, and they are knowledgeable and thought-provoking, and even where they make outrageous accusations, at least they follow up with facts and opinions and interpretations.

Dign4it needs to be banned. He is the Sorcha Faal of anti-Masons, LOL! He simply posts outrageous claims, without a shred of evidence or sources, he never follows up with anything, and he never participates in his own threads.

While each individual thread doesn't violate any specific TandC, his overall pattern is one of a troll and a liar, and I can't wait to see him go.

Originally posted by emberscott

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by emberscott
But the ridicule the op is met with in every thread should be addressed by the moderator people of this site.
As well as other posts I have read in this section of the forum.

In the earliest threads this OP posted on ATS he made claims to have photographic evidence of his so-called "treasure rooms". In creating 19 threads to date, he has yet to share any of those photos, even though he has stated that he would.

If he backed up a single one of his claims, he wouldn't get the ridicule that he is currently greeted with. But to continue to make such claims without even making the slightest attempt to back them up with facts, he simply portrays himself as either delusional or a hoax.

In whos time should the op proffer evidence? Yours? or the ops?

Do you believe he should post willy-nilly without the evidence at-hand to support his claim? Do you think that providing that evidence in a timely manner (sometime before he veers off onto yet another thread) is a not-unreasonable expectation (regardless of which side of the argument you happen to be on)?

Originally posted by emberscott
I see no delusion nor hoax. How can I? As I stated there has been nothing shown for or against to substatiate a judgement yet. Not even the image you provided of the memorial plaque. Of which states 'unidentified masons'
The statement of the image begs the question, Why unidentified?

Uh...maybe because record-keeping wasn't first and foremost on their minds? Just putting the speculation in speculative Masonry, you see.

Fitz

Originally posted by emberscott

So then the presence of these 33ers as well as the loss of history becomes moot. Is it possible 33ers were present? Is it possible that the history is not lost just not widely known?

The speculated presence of 33° Masons is just that: speculation. Perhaps you should look into finding out just how many 33° Masons there were at the time and whether any are unaccounted for.

Such research I'm sure would prove educational and enlightening.

Fitz

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by emberscott

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by dign4it
You may have noticed how most of my topics deal with treasure rooms,

Actually, what we've noticed is that 18 of the 19 threads you've started don't have a single link to substantiate them.

I have yet to see any evidence to the contrary either. Ironically.
Just posted attempts to berate the op. Even a moderator this time. Comical.

It doesn't fall to others to disprove a negative; just to the OP to prove his point with something.....anything at all that would support his as-yet unsubstantiated claim.

Fitz

A 'negative'? That may require clarity.


Burden of proof lies where exactly? Nowhere. This is not a court of law. There is no trial here.
I can state that life is thriving on jupiter. I have been there. Must I be required to proffer proof because you do not believe my statement? Should you be required to proffer proof to disprove my statement because you do not believe my statement.

While I enjoyed reading the original post. I found it very speculative. But the image of the memorial plaque. When I saw that. I seem to now see more questions than I originally had.

Is "Deny ignorance" supposed to actually translate to 'Blindly accept any assertion whatsoever in order not to give offense' ?

Again the irony is never lost is it.

What exactly is written in the original post that you absolutely disagree with?

reply to post by emberscott


This very discussion is evidence as to why Dign4it should not be allowed to post crap. ATS has higher standards than this. People don't just get to post outrageous opinions and make grandiose claims, and then never produce what they have promised. People also don't get to post outrageous opinions and then run out, refuse to support their opinions, and instead just open a new thread with new claims over and over again.

Maybe Dign4it should go start his own forum or blog somewhere, but the only place on ATS for his junk is the HOAX forum or the Creative Writing forum.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by emberscott

 

This very discussion is evidence as to why Dign4it should not be allowed to post crap. ATS has higher standards than this. People don't just get to post outrageous opinions and make grandiose claims, and then never produce what they have promised. People also don't get to post outrageous opinions and then run out, refuse to support their opinions, and instead just open a new thread with new claims over and over again.

Maybe Dign4it should go start his own forum or blog somewhere, but the only place on ATS for his junk is the HOAX forum or the Creative Writing forum.

Well then maybe you should address that with those than operate this forum discussion site. Or disprove the original post so that it can be moved to the forum.