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Can an atheist explain the existence of "Israel" and "Jerusalem" without using "religous text?

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posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 09:46 AM
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Originally posted by ComeFindMe

Originally posted by Israylite4ever

Originally posted by ComeFindMe
reply to post by Israylite4ever
 


But for an atheist, just because you don't agree with something doesn't mean it doesn't - or shouldn't - exist.

Are you trying to say that an atheist shouldn't recognise Israel because it is a state based on a religious notion and belief?


THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I AM SAYING AND IT SUCKS THAT THE WORLD HAS GONE A-D-D/BRAINWASHED TO EVEN NOT CATCH SUCH A SIMPLE CONTRADICTION OF REALITY. ATHEISTS SHOULDN'T RECOGNISE THE FAKE UN CREATED "ISREAL"


Then your argument falls down. A racist shouldn't be able to not accept a racial minority because their perception of their existence / social standing doesn't tie in with his own.

I don't agree with organised religion per se. Does that mean that the church down the road doesn't exist? Of course not!

You don't have to agree with the reasons behind Israel's conception but you have to accept it - it is a physical fact that the state exists. To deny it on a technicality or to take some supposed moral high ground makes no sense.


SORRY BUT RACES EXIST. THERE ARE MANY DIFFERENT CULTURES, TONGUES NATIONS AND "COLOR" ETC. SO RACE IS BOUND TO COME AN ISSUE WHEN IT COMES TO RELIGION ESPESCIALLY WHEN THE RELIGION IS BEING USED TO PERPATRATE A BLATANT LIE. I WILL NEVER BE RACIST. I HAVE MADE RACIAL JOKES AMONG FRIENDS AS HAVE THEY AND THEY ARE MOSTLY...NOT MY RACE!!! 99% OF MY FRIENDS AND ROOMATES AND COWORKERS ARE WHITE. I HAVE ALSO WORKED WITH SOCALLED "JEWS" AND I DONT BRING THIS UP WITH THEM BECUASE OF THE SENSITIVITY OF THE SITUATION. DIFFERENT RACES EXIST. DEAL WITH IT.




posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 09:48 AM
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reply to post by Israylite4ever
 



I am not looking to atheists for answers. I'm asking them to use their intuition they used to have themselves come to the conclusion that "there is no god" to help them become aware that The god they don't believe in is the reason why the fake UN 'isreal' was created. I want them to become aware of the contradiction.


Okay, I think I'm getting you now. Israel exists because the United States and the Soviet Union needed a catspaw in a strategically important part of the world. Does that answer your question?



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 09:50 AM
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Originally posted by xxsomexpersonxx
Doesn't matter if the texts are fiction. Doesn't matter if the beliefs are wrong. Want to know what is true? The fact that there's people that believe in them.

There's a difference between not following any theistic religion, and pretending none exists. The first is essentially atheism, the second, is the same degree of denial-ism often associated with religion.

Israel is inter-tied with beliefs. Just because you don't follow the beliefs doesn't change the fact that it's tied in with what others believe.

~
I see someone wearing a cross necklace, right now. Tell me, with names, places, dates, and times, why they're wearing it. However, you must explain it without referencing Jesus, Christianity, or any religious text past or present.

It doesn't make sense to remove the religious element from something religious. A person's beliefs are still held regardless of whether or not you see them as true.


1.THE TEXTS AREN'T FICTION
2.THE TEXTS ARE BEING USED TO PERPETRATE A LIE AND MAKE FICTION A REALITY
3.PEOPLE ARE SUFFERING TREMENDOUSLY AND ATHEISTS WOULD BE THE PERFECT CANDIDATES TO POINT OUT THESE CONTRADICTIONS THAT ARE CAUSING PAIN AND SUFFERING IN WRONGFULLY OCCUPIED JERUSALEM.
4. IF PEOPLE ARE SUFFERING FROM A LIE, IS IT FAIR THAT THEY SUFFER INDEFINITELY BECAUSE EVERYONE BELIEVES THE LIE? HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUHHH!?!?!



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 09:53 AM
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Originally posted by Israylite4ever
This world is A-D-D and too smart for their own good.


Haha, you're right, let's all shut up and listen to people like you.

Looks like you've been a member since.... today! How's ATS been going for you?



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 09:54 AM
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Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by Israylite4ever
 



I am not looking to atheists for answers. I'm asking them to use their intuition they used to have themselves come to the conclusion that "there is no god" to help them become aware that The god they don't believe in is the reason why the fake UN 'isreal' was created. I want them to become aware of the contradiction.


Okay, I think I'm getting you now. Israel exists because the United States and the Soviet Union needed a catspaw in a strategically important part of the world. Does that answer your question?


YOU DIDN'T ANSWER THE QUESTION BECAUSE IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO. IT IS A TRICK QUESTION. YOU CANNOT EXPLAIN ISREAL AND JERUSALEM WITHOUT USING STORIES IN SCRIPTURE OR THE TORAH. THAT'S WHY IT IS WRONGFULLY OCCUPIED. HOPEFULLY YOU BEING AN ATHEIST, I'M ASSUMING, WILL INFORM YOUR ATHEIST FRIEND ABOUT THIS CONTRADICTION OF REALITY AND HELP END THE TURMOIL IN PALESTINE AND ALL OVER THE MIDDLE EAST. 911 WAS AN INSIDE JOB TOO.



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 09:55 AM
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reply to post by Israylite4ever
 


OK, ill follow your line of thought and words.

Israel exists. Deal with it.

For goodness sake, just because i'm not religious doesn't mean I cant comprehend or recognise that religion may play a part in the formation of a state.

You have a dangerously ignorant attitude and irrespective of the clear and concise answers you have received, you are carrying on unperturbed. Don't bother asking a question if you aren't prepared to consider the reasonable and thoughtful responses people lay out for you.

edit on 3-4-2012 by ComeFindMe because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 09:55 AM
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Originally posted by xxdaniel21

Originally posted by Israylite4ever
This world is A-D-D and too smart for their own good.


Haha, you're right, let's all shut up and listen to people like you.

Looks like you've been a member since.... today! How's ATS been going for you?


YOU JUDGE PEOPLE BASED ON HOW LONG THEY'VE POSTED ON A MESSAGE BOARD FORUM. THEREFORE YOU ARE TOO SMART FOR YOUR OWN GOOD.



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 09:56 AM
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Originally posted by Israylite4ever

Originally posted by DerekJR321
Without bringing religion into it?

Israel was created by British mandate in 1947. Previous to that the land was Palestine. Before that it was called something else. Before that... etc etc etc.

As far as Jerusalem is concerned, it has been there for a long time. It first showed up in Egyptian text as "Rušalimum" or "Urušalimum". It has been controlled over the years by many different people. Currently Israel lists it as their capital city, though it is not internationally recognized as so.




But they used RELIGIOUS TEXT AS THEIR SOLE REASON FOR BEING ABLE TO OCCUPY THE SAID LAND. You are not giving details just vague pointers my boy


The title of your thread is:

"Can an atheist explain the existence of "Israel" and "Jerusalem" without using "religious text?"

I believe my response did exactly that. The Balfour declaration, and the British mandate is exactly what created Israel. Jerusalem just happens to exist in what is now known as Israel. I can't give a clearer answer than that without bringing religion into the mix.



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 09:56 AM
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Originally posted by Israylite4ever
911 WAS AN INSIDE JOB TOO.


Okay, now i know you're trying to be funny.



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 09:59 AM
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Originally posted by ComeFindMe
reply to post by Israylite4ever
 


OK, ill follow your line of thought and words.

Israel exists. Deal with it.

For goodness sake, just because i'm religious doesn't mean I cant comprehend or recognise that religion may play a part in the formation of a state.

You have a dangerously ignorant attitude and irrespective of the clear and concise answers you have received, you are carrying on unperturbed. Don't bother asking a question if you aren't prepared to consider the reasonable and thoughtful responses people lay out for you.



I'm only making people AWARE of this CONTRADICTION OF REALITY because it is THE WORST OF THE WORST OF A LIE and it is the single most important issue that is RUINING THE TRUTH OF THIS WORLD. IGNORANT IS *NOT* WHAT I CAME HERE TO MAKE YOU. I WANT YOU TO BECOME AWARE OF SUFFERING CAUSED BY THIS LIE. THIS WHOLE FORUMS IS BASED ON ARGUING OVER WHAT YOU BELIEVE IS TRUE AND I AM DOING NOTHING DIFFERENT THAN ANY OF THOSE WHO FOLLOW THE GUIDLINES. OTHER THAN THE CAPS. BE AWARE OF THE FAKE UN CREATED ISREAL LIE.
edit on 3-4-2012 by Israylite4ever because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 10:00 AM
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Originally posted by DerekJR321

Originally posted by Israylite4ever

Originally posted by DerekJR321
Without bringing religion into it?

Israel was created by British mandate in 1947. Previous to that the land was Palestine. Before that it was called something else. Before that... etc etc etc.

As far as Jerusalem is concerned, it has been there for a long time. It first showed up in Egyptian text as "Rušalimum" or "Urušalimum". It has been controlled over the years by many different people. Currently Israel lists it as their capital city, though it is not internationally recognized as so.




SO WHEN THE ROMANS TRASHED ISRAEL/JERUSALEM 70 AD...IT WASN'T ISREAL?

But they used RELIGIOUS TEXT AS THEIR SOLE REASON FOR BEING ABLE TO OCCUPY THE SAID LAND. You are not giving details just vague pointers my boy


The title of your thread is:

"Can an atheist explain the existence of "Israel" and "Jerusalem" without using "religious text?"

I believe my response did exactly that. The Balfour declaration, and the British mandate is exactly what created Israel. Jerusalem just happens to exist in what is now known as Israel. I can't give a clearer answer than that without bringing religion into the mix.


SO WHEN THE ROMANS TRASHED ISRAEL/JERUSALEM 70 AD...IT DIDN'T EXIST?
edit on 3-4-2012 by Israylite4ever because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 10:03 AM
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Originally posted by Israylite4ever

Originally posted by xxdaniel21

Originally posted by Israylite4ever
This world is A-D-D and too smart for their own good.


Haha, you're right, let's all shut up and listen to people like you.

Looks like you've been a member since.... today! How's ATS been going for you?


YOU JUDGE PEOPLE BASED ON HOW LONG THEY'VE POSTED ON A MESSAGE BOARD FORUM. THEREFORE YOU ARE TOO SMART FOR YOUR OWN GOOD.


I genuinely asked you how ATS had been going for you.
Rather than introducing yourself as a calm, collected person - you've introduced yourself as an "israylite4ever", who ran into an argument guns blazing.

All i'm seeing is "GUYS YOU ARE ALL ADD... THERE ARE ONLY RELIGIOUS TEXTS OF THE EXISTENCE OF ISRAEL. THE GOD YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN CREATED THE FAKE ISRAEL"

Seriously, how do you expect an a-theist to believe in the god they don't believe in? Use the same logic that you aren't believing all the other replies in here.
You called for argument, and now that you're getting one, we find out that you actually just wanted us to "make ourselves aware of a higher being".

That's stupid to even think people will stop and follow you.



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 10:03 AM
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I'm only making people AWARE of this CONTRADICTION OF REALITY because it is THE WORST OF THE WORST OF A LIE and it is the single most important issue that is RUINING THE TRUTH OF THIS WORLD. IGNORANT IS *NOT* WHAT I CAME HERE TO MAKE YOU. I WANT YOU TO BECOME AWARE OF SUFFERING CAUSED BY THIS LIE. THIS WHOLE FORUMS IS BASED ON ARGUING OVER WHAT YOU BELIEVE IS TRUE AND I AM DOING NOTHING DIFFERENT THAN ANY OF THOSE WHO FOLLOW THE GUIDLINES. OTHER THAN THE CAPS. BE AWARE OF THE FAKE UN CREATED ISREAL LIE.
edit on 3-4-2012 by Israylite4ever because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 10:04 AM
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Originally posted by xxdaniel21

Originally posted by Israylite4ever

Originally posted by xxdaniel21

Originally posted by Israylite4ever
This world is A-D-D and too smart for their own good.


Haha, you're right, let's all shut up and listen to people like you.

Looks like you've been a member since.... today! How's ATS been going for you?


YOU JUDGE PEOPLE BASED ON HOW LONG THEY'VE POSTED ON A MESSAGE BOARD FORUM. THEREFORE YOU ARE TOO SMART FOR YOUR OWN GOOD.


I genuinely asked you how ATS had been going for you.
Rather than introducing yourself as a calm, collected person - you've introduced yourself as an "israylite4ever", who ran into an argument guns blazing.

All i'm seeing is "GUYS YOU ARE ALL ADD... THERE ARE ONLY RELIGIOUS TEXTS OF THE EXISTENCE OF ISRAEL. THE GOD YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN CREATED THE FAKE ISRAEL"

Seriously, how do you expect an a-theist to believe in the god they don't believe in? Use the same logic that you aren't believing all the other replies in here.
You called for argument, and now that you're getting one, we find out that you actually just wanted us to "make ourselves aware of a higher being".

That's stupid to even think people will stop and follow you.


I AM MAKING THEM AWARE OF A CONTRADICTION IN RELIGION...THAT IS WHY THEY POST IN THIS FORUM IN THE FIRST PLACE ISN'T IT?



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 10:07 AM
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Your thread has been answered - but you're refusing to look at the original purpose, and instead, you're carrying on about your ideal world where everyone believes in your belief.

Hell, i try not to get involved in these religious threads, as religious arguments don't lead anywhere - but your title posing a question fooled me into a thread about religious indoctrination.



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 10:08 AM
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Originally posted by xxdaniel21

Originally posted by Israylite4ever

Originally posted by xxdaniel21

Originally posted by Israylite4ever
This world is A-D-D and too smart for their own good.


Haha, you're right, let's all shut up and listen to people like you.

Looks like you've been a member since.... today! How's ATS been going for you?


YOU JUDGE PEOPLE BASED ON HOW LONG THEY'VE POSTED ON A MESSAGE BOARD FORUM. THEREFORE YOU ARE TOO SMART FOR YOUR OWN GOOD.


I genuinely asked you how ATS had been going for you.
Rather than introducing yourself as a calm, collected person - you've introduced yourself as an "israylite4ever", who ran into an argument guns blazing.

All i'm seeing is "GUYS YOU ARE ALL ADD... THERE ARE ONLY RELIGIOUS TEXTS OF THE EXISTENCE OF ISRAEL. THE GOD YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN CREATED THE FAKE ISRAEL"

Seriously, how do you expect an a-theist to believe in the god they don't believe in? Use the same logic that you aren't believing all the other replies in here.
You called for argument, and now that you're getting one, we find out that you actually just wanted us to "make ourselves aware of a higher being".

That's stupid to even think people will stop and follow you.


I'M SORRY BUT CAPS, REPETITION AND ARGUING IS WAY TO CATCH ATTENTION. I DON'T HATE ANY OF YOU. BUT WHEN YOU POST SOMETHING THAT I NEED TO ADDRESS I WILL. I'M PRETTY A-D-D MYSELF BUT WHEN I WANT TO GET MY POINT ACROSS I HAVE TO DO SOMETHING.



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 10:09 AM
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Originally posted by Israylite4ever

I AM MAKING THEM AWARE OF A CONTRADICTION IN RELIGION...THAT IS WHY THEY POST IN THIS FORUM IN THE FIRST PLACE ISN'T IT?


Yes, but your purpose is very vague. We've answered your question without reference to religion. That is what you called for - that is what you got!

Sadly, we don't agree to calls for "awareness on the belief of certain members" as the reason people post in this forum in general is to "DENY IGNORANCE".



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 10:09 AM
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Originally posted by xxdaniel21
Your thread has been answered - but you're refusing to look at the original purpose, and instead, you're carrying on about your ideal world where everyone believes in your belief.

Hell, i try not to get involved in these religious threads, as religious arguments don't lead anywhere - but your title posing a question fooled me into a thread about religious indoctrination.


NO, I'M NOT. THE TRUTH IS THE TRUTH. THE FAKE UN CREATED "ISREAL" CONTRADICTS TRUTH. I THINK ATHEIST ARE CRITICAL THINKERS WHO SHOULD LEARN THE TRUTH ABOUT RELIGIONS AND THOSE WHO USE IT TO RUIN THE TRUTH.



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 10:10 AM
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Originally posted by Israylite4ever



I'm only making people AWARE of this CONTRADICTION OF REALITY because it is THE WORST OF THE WORST OF A LIE and it is the single most important issue that is RUINING THE TRUTH OF THIS WORLD. IGNORANT IS *NOT* WHAT I CAME HERE TO MAKE YOU. I WANT YOU TO BECOME AWARE OF SUFFERING CAUSED BY THIS LIE. THIS WHOLE FORUMS IS BASED ON ARGUING OVER WHAT YOU BELIEVE IS TRUE AND I AM DOING NOTHING DIFFERENT THAN ANY OF THOSE WHO FOLLOW THE GUIDLINES. OTHER THAN THE CAPS. BE AWARE OF THE FAKE UN CREATED ISREAL LIE.
edit on 3-4-2012 by Israylite4ever because: (no reason given)


In your opinion.



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by Israylite4ever

I'M SORRY BUT CAPS, REPETITION AND ARGUING IS WAY TO CATCH ATTENTION. I DON'T HATE ANY OF YOU. BUT WHEN YOU POST SOMETHING THAT I NEED TO ADDRESS I WILL. I'M PRETTY A-D-D MYSELF BUT WHEN I WANT TO GET MY POINT ACROSS I HAVE TO DO SOMETHING.


Well now that you've explained yourself a bit better, i can see you are capable of conveying a more decent side. But in terms of internet context, capitals and repetition just comes across as frustrating in it's rawest form.






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