Can an atheist explain the existence of "Israel" and "Jerusalem" without using "religous text?

Without bringing religion into it?

Israel was created by British mandate in 1947. Previous to that the land was Palestine. Before that it was called something else. Before that... etc etc etc.

As far as Jerusalem is concerned, it has been there for a long time. It first showed up in Egyptian text as "Rušalimum" or "Urušalimum". It has been controlled over the years by many different people. Currently Israel lists it as their capital city, though it is not internationally recognized as so.

Jews aren't greedy for religious war, they've stubbornly refused to accept they're not supposed to be there and refused to move despite calls for their acquiescence and decolonization efforts.

Since Judaism and Islam aren't in yet a conflagration of full-out knuckles-bled trench warfare, we know that Israel isn't the only war that the religious would have in mind.

Sorry Jews, you can't have the entire Holy War, you're not that special.

If a Holy War were to arise between Abrahamic and Dharmic religions, guess what, there are not enough Jews to beat China and India or South East Asia.

The holy war I see today is in the Kashmir Conflict, where India wants it for their Hindu nationality, Pakistan wants it for Muslims to live in peace and if you think China is merely a sidelined Atheist observer I'll have to put you in the box.

Jew aren't even *ready* for a Holy war against Iran, Iran isn't ready to liberate the Hejaz from Saudi Arabia to defend it from retaliatory strikes by religious fanatics.

Who is ready for a Holy War? No one with piety and humility in their minds.

Jews aren't the Holy War, Islam would be. Jews are misdirecting Islam, their war is with India and China, India wants Muslims to live in peace and China can't stop oppressing Muslims.

Muslims might indavertantly spark holy war with two fronts from India and Israel, Russia would look on keenly to destroying Chechnyan rebels and you can see why Yugoslavian atrocities play into this larger conflict I am describing.

Anyways, challenge met, received unwell and I'm telling you if you're not allowed to use religious texts to stop a Holy War then you're not in a Holy War. You're just a jerkwad.

ED: Israelite4Ever is the worst troll I've ever seen, I mean his question is Zion-centric and his tone obtuse, we have no reason to believe he would deny his own ignorance even if we did a peer-review on what Religious Conflicts are escalating, rather than the ones that are stagnating.

reply to post by Israylite4ever


Obviously, I am inferior to your towering intellect. Fortunately, DerekJR321 just answered your question.

Well, I say answered...he provided the correct response to the question you posed...I strongly suspect that as he didn't bash Israel, Zionists or the 'fake UN' you will deem it "too vague".

Originally posted by DerekJR321
Without bringing religion into it?

Israel was created by British mandate in 1947. Previous to that the land was Palestine. Before that it was called something else. Before that... etc etc etc.

As far as Jerusalem is concerned, it has been there for a long time. It first showed up in Egyptian text as "Rušalimum" or "Urušalimum". It has been controlled over the years by many different people. Currently Israel lists it as their capital city, though it is not internationally recognized as so.

But they used RELIGIOUS TEXT AS THEIR SOLE REASON FOR BEING ABLE TO OCCUPY THE SAID LAND. You are not giving details just vague pointers my boy

Your thread title was originally posted in ALL CAPS. You use the words "atheist" and "Israel." This is a sure fire way to draw angry trolls of every stripe and color, yet you have received no stars or flags. Whatever your intent is, and I repeat, that is completely unclear, you do not appear to be succeeding.

The spoils of war.

They won, they took the land.

Originally posted by ComeFindMe
reply to post by Israylite4ever

 

Obviously, I am inferior to your towering intellect. Fortunately, DerekJR321 just answered your question.

Well, I say answered...he provided the correct response to the question you posed...I strongly suspect that as he didn't bash Israel, Zionists or the 'fake UN' you will deem it "too vague".

My point is to HELP ATHEISTS AND BELIEVERS BECOME AWARE OF THE TURMOIL IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND 911 BEING AN INSIDE JOB ARE CAUSED BY THE SAME PEOPLE WHO CONTROL OUR RELIGIOUS INSTITUTIONS AND OUR GOVERNMENTS AND MEDIA. Also I'm curious as to why anybody would be an ATHEIST AND NOT POINT OUT THE CONTRADICTION OF THE REALITY OF THE FAKE UN CREATED ISRAEL.

Originally posted by DJW001
Your thread title was originally posted in ALL CAPS. You use the words "atheist" and "Israel." This is a sure fire way to draw angry trolls of every stripe and color, yet you have received no stars or flags. Whatever your intent is, and I repeat, that is completely unclear, you do not appear to be succeeding.

MY INTENTIONS OF THIS THREAD ARE TO MAKE BELIEVERS AND UNBELIEVERS AWARE OF THE CONTRADICTION OF REALITY THAT IS THE EXISTENCE OF THE UN CREATED ISREAL. SOMETHING SO SIMPLE. YET IT IS RUINING SOCIETY. THIS LIE IS BEASTING ON OUR INTUITION AND RUINING TRUTH.

reply to post by Israylite4ever


It would seem your question is somewhat of a trap.

Can an atheist explain the existence of "Israel" and "Jerusalem" without using "religous text?,

In order to give names, dates, and places I would have to give refferences which are contained within the Bible. This would violate the pretext of the question.

If I had access to some other reffenece materials, I would gladly post them.

What I stated is the essence of the matter.

Oh, almost forgot, Jerusalem was a village for many years before Abraham moved into the area, but to say much more would bring in matters found in the religous texts.

reply to post by Israylite4ever


But for an atheist, just because you don't agree with something doesn't mean it doesn't - or shouldn't - exist.

Are you trying to say that an atheist shouldn't recognise Israel because it is a state based on a religious notion and belief?

I can't help but notice you are rather....loaded....with a lot of 'facts' that are just opinion.

Originally posted by hdutton
reply to post by Israylite4ever

 

It would seem your question is somewhat of a trap.

Can an atheist explain the existence of "Israel" and "Jerusalem" without using "religous text?,

Oh, almost forgot, Jerusalem was a village for many years before Abraham moved into the area, but to say much more would bring in matters found in the religous texts.

According to the information YOU PUT YOUR FAITH INTO. I don't believe You. But that is Me using the FAITH I have in the information given to Me.

Maybe, OP, you have answered your own question. I don't think you can.

They are both very religious lands and without religion or belief in a god, they'd just be named bodies of land that were settled. They have developed into the cultures they are today because of religion.

I don't know. I'm not religious but I am spiritual.

Originally posted by ComeFindMe
reply to post by Israylite4ever

 

But for an atheist, just because you don't agree with something doesn't mean it doesn't - or shouldn't - exist.

Are you trying to say that an atheist shouldn't recognise Israel because it is a state based on a religious notion and belief?

I can't help but notice you are rather....loaded....with a lot of 'facts' that are just opinion.

THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I AM SAYING AND IT SUCKS THAT THE WORLD HAS GONE A-D-D/BRAINWASHED TO EVEN NOT CATCH SUCH A SIMPLE CONTRADICTION OF REALITY. ATHEISTS SHOULDN'T RECOGNISE THE FAKE UN CREATED "ISREAL"

Originally posted by CoherentlyConfused
Maybe, OP, you have answered your own question. I don't think you can.

They are both very religious lands and without religion or belief in a god, they'd just be named bodies of land that were settled. They have developed into the cultures they are today because of religion.

I don't know. I'm not religious but I am spiritual.

I respect Your answer and the fact that this "contradiction of reality" HASN'T* gone completely over your head. You can't have "Israel" and Jerusalem without the stories in religious text.

"CAN AN ATHEIST EXPLAIN THE EXISTENCE OF "ISRAEL" AND "JERUSALEM" WITHOUT USING "RELIGOUS TEXT?"

My first question, (aside from why are you screaming in your title) is why do you think that an atheist would explain this to you using religious text? We're atheist and don't believe in those texts, so it would be hypocritical to use such texts to prove our point.

Israel is a country that was stolen from its indigenous inhabitants based on ancient fairytales of hate and lies. You obviously know that already, so what more do you want?

Nobody cares about what we think about middle east issues... that's the core problem. The right thing to do would be to evict the Israelis, but I really don't think that's ever going to happen.

Originally posted by Israylite4ever
When You do find an explanation, hopefully You can all join together and help stop the turmoil going on in the Middle East because of a religious lie.

Originally posted by Israylite4ever

You use the term "Zionist" which "ZION" is the root of. "ZION" only exists because of religious texts. You need to explain who and where these people come from? You believe in the God? Than You can tell Me why Gog and Magog and Ashkenaz inhabit Jerusalem when they aren't supposed to? That means every so-called "jew" in the fake "UN" created Isreal. Do You know the term "Ashkenazi Jew" is a complete 100% OXYMORON? You cannot be "antisemetic" to an ASKENAZI JEW because they are NOT SEMETIC IN THE FIRST PLACE. If people studied religous text they would see the conspiracy for what it is. But since people choose to ignore the "contradictions" of scripture and reality that counts: THE CONTRADICTION OF THE FAKE UN CREATED ISREAL. People are suffering. This world is A-D-D and too smart for their own good.

Originally posted by Israylite4ever
I want details. YOU ARE COMPLETELY AVOIDING THE QUESTION BY GIVING VAGUE EXPLANATIONS. I need names and people, times and places etc because it seems RELIGOUS TEXT is the ONLY explanation of 'isreal' so far.

Well anyone can write "religious texts". Their following is based on how efficiently the cult has indoctrinated hundreds of generations of minds.

You may use any modern conquest as an example. Documents and accounts have been burned and removed upon settlement of many civilisations.
Take a look at the spanish conquest of south america. Why do you think there is so little information on the ancient maya civilization? Why do you think there are so many predictions and assumptions regarding the long count calendar?
"The Spanish Church and government officials destroyed Maya texts and with them the knowledge of Maya writing"
- Wikipedia (very basic resource, and i'm sure one could find a lot more information, if this thread truly warranted a worthwhile discussion)

What do you think the crusades were all about? Look up the Siege of Jerusalem (1099) where a catholic presence had overwhelmed the city.

Of course there's going to be a lot of "religious text" relating to the city.
If we spent the next 1000 years removing literature on the origin of britain, i'm sure our descendants would think it was an islamic state for thousands of years, and a thread on ATS circa. 3000 would pop up:
"Can a non-believer explain the existence of "england" and "london" without using the holy quran?

Your argument does not allow for centuries of conquest and indoctrination.

If you broadened your research - you'd find there are more than one account for the origin of jerusalem. I.e. Execration texts, etc.
But unfortunately, Jewish tradition says it was founded by the ancestors of abraham. And unfortunately - that's what you're going to go with until the day you die. Hence the word "religion" and "belief" - i'm not taking them away from you, but keep facts and history in mind when making extraordinary claims.

Originally posted by Israylite4ever

Originally posted by ComeFindMe
reply to post by Israylite4ever

 

But for an atheist, just because you don't agree with something doesn't mean it doesn't - or shouldn't - exist.

Are you trying to say that an atheist shouldn't recognise Israel because it is a state based on a religious notion and belief?

THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I AM SAYING AND IT SUCKS THAT THE WORLD HAS GONE A-D-D/BRAINWASHED TO EVEN NOT CATCH SUCH A SIMPLE CONTRADICTION OF REALITY. ATHEISTS SHOULDN'T RECOGNISE THE FAKE UN CREATED "ISREAL"

Then your argument falls down. A racist shouldn't be able to not accept a racial minority because their perception of their existence / social standing doesn't tie in with his own.

I don't agree with organised religion per se. Does that mean that the church down the road doesn't exist? Of course not!

You don't have to agree with the reasons behind Israel's conception but you have to accept it - it is a physical fact that the state exists. To deny it on a technicality or to take some supposed moral high ground makes no sense.

Originally posted by ~Vixen~
"CAN AN ATHEIST EXPLAIN THE EXISTENCE OF "ISRAEL" AND "JERUSALEM" WITHOUT USING "RELIGOUS TEXT?"

My first question, (aside from why are you screaming in your title) is why do you think that an atheist would explain this to you using religious text? We're atheist and don't believe in those texts, so it would be hypocritical to use such texts to prove our point.

Israel is a country that was stolen from its indigenous inhabitants based on ancient fairytales of hate and lies. You obviously know that already, so what more do you want?

Nobody cares about what we think about middle east issues... that's the core problem. The right thing to do would be to evict the Israelis, but I really don't think that's ever going to happen.

Originally posted by Israylite4ever
When You do find an explanation, hopefully You can all join together and help stop the turmoil going on in the Middle East because of a religious lie.

I am not looking to atheists for answers. I'm asking them to use their intuition they used to have themselves come to the conclusion that "there is no god" to help them become aware that The god they don't believe in is the reason why the fake UN 'isreal' was created. I want them to become aware of the contradiction.

Doesn't matter if the texts are fiction. Doesn't matter if the beliefs are wrong. Want to know what is true? The fact that there's people that believe in them.

There's a difference between not following any theistic religion, and pretending none exists. The first is essentially atheism, the second, is the same degree of denial-ism often associated with religion.

Israel is inter-tied with beliefs. Just because you don't follow the beliefs doesn't change the fact that it's tied in with what others believe.

~
I see someone wearing a cross necklace, right now. Tell me, with names, places, dates, and times, why they're wearing it. However, you must explain it without referencing Jesus, Christianity, or any religious text past or present.

It doesn't make sense to remove the religious element from something religious. A person's beliefs are still held regardless of whether or not you see them as true.