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Can an atheist explain the existence of "Israel" and "Jerusalem" without using "religous text?

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posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 08:44 AM
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When You do find an explanation, hopefully You can all join together and help stop the turmoil going on in the Middle East because of a religious lie.

 


Edit All Caps Title.
edit on 3-4-2012 by Ahabstar because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 08:49 AM
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Originally posted by Israylite4ever
When You do find an explanation, hopefully You can all join together and help stop the turmoil going on in the Middle East because of a religious lie.


The Land of Israel (Hebrew: אֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל‎‎ ʼÉreṣ Yiśrāʼēl, Eretz Yisrael) is a Biblical name for the territory roughly corresponding to the area encompassed by the Southern Levant, also known as Palestine, Canaan, Promised Land and the Holy Land. The belief that the area is a God-given homeland of the Jewish people is based on the narrative of the Torah, especially the books of Genesis and Exodus, as well as the Prophets. According to the Book of Genesis, the land was promised by God to the descendants of Abraham through his son Isaac and to the Israelites, descendants of Jacob, Abraham's grandson. A literal reading of the text suggests that the land promise is (or was at one time) one of the Biblical covenants between God and the Israelites.

The definition of the limits of this territory varies between Biblical passages, specifically Genesis 15, Exodus 23, Numbers 34 and Ezekiel 47. Elsewhere in the Bible, this land is often referred as "from Dan to Beersheba". The Land of Canaan is another Biblical name for this region. References to the land of Israel are also made in the New Testament, for example in Matthew 2:19–21.

The boundaries of the Land of Israel must be distinguished from the borders of historical Israelite kingdoms. The Hasmonean Kingdom, the Herodian dynasty and possibly the Kingdom of Israel (united monarchy) ruled a land with comparable boundaries. They must also be distinguished from the borders of the current State of Israel.

The Land of Israel concept has been evoked by the founders of the State of Israel. It occasionally surfaces in political debates on the status of the Palestinian territories.
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posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 08:50 AM
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edit on 3-4-2012 by jazzguy because: cant be bothered with this, i dont care enough about jews to waste time writing about them



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 08:51 AM
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In Judaism, Jerusalem has been the holiest city since, according to the Hebrew Bible, King David of Israel first established it as the capital of the united Kingdom of Israel in c.1000 BCE, and his son Solomon commissioned the building of the First Temple in the city.[9] In Christianity, Jerusalem has been a holy city since, according to the New Testament, Jesus was crucified there, possibly in c.33 CE,[10][11][12] and 300 years later Saint Helena identified the pilgrimage sites of Jesus' life. In Sunni Islam, Jerusalem is the third-holiest city.[13][14] It became the first Qibla, the focal point for Muslim prayer (Salah) in 610 CE,[15] and, according to Islamic tradition, Muhammad made his Night Journey there ten years later.[16][17] As a result, despite having an area of only 0.9 square kilometres (0.35 sq mi),[18] the Old City is home to many sites of tremendous religious importance, among them the Temple Mount, the Western Wall, the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, the Dome of the Rock and al-Aqsa Mosque.

Today, the status of Jerusalem remains one of the core issues in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict. During the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, West Jerusalem was among the areas captured and later annexed by Israel, while East Jerusalem, including the Old City, was captured by Jordan. Israel captured East Jerusalem during the 1967 Six-Day War and subsequently annexed it. Currently, Israel's Basic Law refers to Jerusalem as the country's "undivided capital". The international community has rejected the annexation as illegal and treats East Jerusalem as Palestinian territory held by Israel under military occupation.[19][20][21][22] The international community does not recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital, and the city hosts no foreign embassies.



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 08:52 AM
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Originally posted by Israylite4ever
When You do find an explanation, hopefully You can all join together and help stop the turmoil going on in the Middle East because of a religious lie.



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 08:54 AM
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What is the point of this thread? Obviously you hope to start an argument; hence your challenging and defiant tone.

Israel and Jerusalem are man-made country/ city. How does that prove anything about God?



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 08:56 AM
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Originally posted by smyleegrl
What is the point of this thread? Obviously you hope to start an argument; hence your challenging and defiant tone.

Israel and Jerusalem are man-made country/ city. How does that prove anything about God?



I want details. YOU ARE COMPLETELY AVOIDING THE QUESTION BY GIVING VAGUE EXPLANATIONS. I need names and people, times and places etc because it seems RELIGOUS TEXT is the ONLY explanation of 'isreal' so far.



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 08:57 AM
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Originally posted by smyleegrl
What is the point of this thread?


hopefully You can all join together and help stop the turmoil going on in the Middle East because of a religious lie.



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 08:57 AM
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reply to post by smyleegrl
 


Israel and Jerusalem physically exist in the Middle East.

Fink I mite be fick but dnt get this fread



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 08:58 AM
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Originally posted by Israylite4ever

Originally posted by smyleegrl
What is the point of this thread? Obviously you hope to start an argument; hence your challenging and defiant tone.

Israel and Jerusalem are man-made country/ city. How does that prove anything about God?



I want details. YOU ARE COMPLETELY AVOIDING THE QUESTION BY GIVING VAGUE EXPLANATIONS. I need names and people, times and places etc because it seems RELIGOUS TEXT is the ONLY explanation of 'isreal' so far.


Err no she is not. She answered your (vague) question.

I'd recommend the Israeli Yellow Pages for names, people, times and places.



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 08:59 AM
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Originally posted by ComeFindMe
reply to post by smyleegrl
 


Israel and Jerusalem physically exist in the Middle East.

Fink I mite be fick but dnt get this fread


You are not answering the question at all. What is the story for How "Israel" became to be besides "religous text?"



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 08:59 AM
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I'll try....

Zionist wanted to have solid outpost in middle-east (not just another puppet government). The significance of oil was already very obvious.
This country is just a stick in anthill, existence of which is justified by some religious bollocks.
And clearly it serves well until this day.

edit: Im not atheist though, I believe in God Creator, but shun everything concerning organized religion of any kind.
edit on 3-4-2012 by stainlesssteelrat because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 09:04 AM
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Originally posted by ComeFindMe

Originally posted by Israylite4ever

Originally posted by smyleegrl
What is the point of this thread? Obviously you hope to start an argument; hence your challenging and defiant tone.

Israel and Jerusalem are man-made country/ city. How does that prove anything about God?



I want details. YOU ARE COMPLETELY AVOIDING THE QUESTION BY GIVING VAGUE EXPLANATIONS. I need names and people, times and places etc because it seems RELIGOUS TEXT is the ONLY explanation of 'isreal' so far.


Yes She is. My question isn't vague. If the people occupying The fake "UN" created 'isreal' and Jerusalem now are there besides anything but the "religious text" they use, then they don't belong there. But it seems NO ATHEIST WANTS TO BRING THIS UP. What's the point in being an atheist and believing in "truth", if You cant point out such an obvious contradiction of reality. I wish the Atheist who thought long and hard about not believing in YHWH, would take the same amount of time to point out the contradictions of the fake UN created 'isreal' so the turmoil there might stop from people being aware of the lie.
Err no she is not. She answered your (vague) question.

I'd recommend the Israeli Yellow Pages for names, people, times and places.



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 09:04 AM
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What, exactly, are you asking? I seriously don't understand the question. It actually seems to negate itself. Are you asking people who do not believe in religious mythology to explain the existence of a city? What's to explain? It's been there for thousands of years. In fact, it was probably there before the Bible was written.



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 09:09 AM
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Originally posted by Israylite4ever

Originally posted by smyleegrl
What is the point of this thread? Obviously you hope to start an argument; hence your challenging and defiant tone.

Israel and Jerusalem are man-made country/ city. How does that prove anything about God?



I want details. YOU ARE COMPLETELY AVOIDING THE QUESTION BY GIVING VAGUE EXPLANATIONS. I need names and people, times and places etc because it seems RELIGOUS TEXT is the ONLY explanation of 'isreal' so far.


Try your local library. Go to the reference section and read.



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 09:10 AM
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reply to post by Israylite4ever
 


Right, OK. Well, most countries and regions in the world have developed as such through the impact of religion on the native peoples. I'm sure many countries have at least developed geographically through the belief system/s of the indigenous population.

Whilst I appreciate the sentiment in your argument, is it not the same as criticising Republicans who live in Britain (which has a monarch)?



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 09:10 AM
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I have always thought this would be fairly easy to explain.

A long time ago there was a land deal struck between some people who really did not like each other.

One group thought they could claim not only the land they had agreed upon but more for their expanding family.

The second group did not like this, so when any opportinity presented it's self, they tried to get rid of group one.

A few hundred years later group one found they were no longer wanted where they now lived and thought they could just go back "home".

The only problem was the people who now live there don't want them either, because they are again laying claim to all the land.

The easiest way to find peace would be to either settle everyone back on the original land claim or create more land.

I am aware of just how simplistic this all sounds, but it has to be so for some here to understand what is being said.

Of course, neither of these would begin to address the past conflicts; which is another story entirely.



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 09:13 AM
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Originally posted by stainlesssteelrat
I'll try....

Zionist wanted to have solid outpost in middle-east (not just another puppet government). The significance of oil was already very obvious.
This country is just a stick in anthill, existence of which is justified by some religious bollocks.
And clearly it serves well until this day.

edit: Im not atheist though, I believe in God Creator, but shun everything concerning organized religion of any kind.
edit on 3-4-2012 by stainlesssteelrat because: (no reason given)


You use the term "Zionist" which "ZION" is the root of. "ZION" only exists because of religious texts. You need to explain who and where these people come from? You believe in the God? Than You can tell Me why Gog and Magog and Ashkenaz inhabit Jerusalem when they aren't supposed to? That means every so-called "jew" in the fake "UN" created Isreal. Do You know the term "Ashkenazi Jew" is a complete 100% OXYMORON? You cannot be "antisemetic" to an ASKENAZI JEW because they are NOT SEMETIC IN THE FIRST PLACE. If people studied religous text they would see the conspiracy for what it is. But since people choose to ignore the "contradictions" of scripture and reality that counts: THE CONTRADICTION OF THE FAKE UN CREATED ISREAL. People are suffering. This world is A-D-D and too smart for their own good.



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 09:15 AM
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Originally posted by hdutton
I have always thought this would be fairly easy to explain.

A long time ago there was a land deal struck between some people who really did not like each other.

One group thought they could claim not only the land they had agreed upon but more for their expanding family.

The second group did not like this, so when any opportinity presented it's self, they tried to get rid of group one.

A few hundred years later group one found they were no longer wanted where they now lived and thought they could just go back "home".

The only problem was the people who now live there don't want them either, because they are again laying claim to all the land.

The easiest way to find peace would be to either settle everyone back on the original land claim or create more land.

I am aware of just how simplistic this all sounds, but it has to be so for some here to understand what is being said.

Of course, neither of these would begin to address the past conflicts; which is another story entirely.


TOO VAGUE.



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 09:16 AM
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Originally posted by ComeFindMe
reply to post by Israylite4ever
 


Right, OK. Well, most countries and regions in the world have developed as such through the impact of religion on the native peoples. I'm sure many countries have at least developed geographically through the belief system/s of the indigenous population.

Whilst I appreciate the sentiment in your argument, is it not the same as criticising Republicans who live in Britain (which has a monarch)?


TOO VAGUE and OFF TRACK from the original question.





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