Miss Universe and Transgendered Contestants: A Tricky Social Issue

They would be looking at litigation if they don't allow her.

I think that is why she will be allowed to compete.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Don't think it works that way FF. My parent had males and females and I'm pretty sure DNA doesn't discriminate on the lines of "sex". Or there would be only one sex to come out of a union of parents.

reply to post by paradox

You removed the citation for this external text? It was "Cliffnotes" if I recall.

Best either bring it back or lose the quote. You'll recall the term 'plagiarism', right? But hey...I thought it was a lousy reference, too.

What is the point of these beauty contests?

There are similar contests with out animals.
Except for some big beef contests where the winner is eaten, most of the winners were chozen because they have qualities which can be passed onto offspring.
It is therefor essentially the choozing of the best of its kind for breeding.
Neutered animals are disqualified.

Altho it is not overtly acknowledged, Doesn't the same principal apply to these human contests?

Originally posted by Partygirl

Originally posted by carabao
Every human has to be respected for who they are and as what they are as long as they are not hurting anyone.

People have a right to be respected for who they are, true.

They don't have a right to be celebrated for who they aren't, however.

A bit of a contradiction don't you think?
If someone appears as a female, thinks like a female, acts like a female. They are a female in my books, so what if they have a penis (or used to), a person is a person and should be respected equally just as you or i.

If someone feels they were born into the wrong body, then they should be celebrated for what they have been through, the amount of courage needed to go through such a transition is phenomenal. Ugly or Beautiful in the outcome, a girl should be celebrated for what they are, even if they were born with a penis.

Gender is a mindset, not an organ. Don't forget that.

I believe anyone should be able to enter these contests regardless of their original gender, of course the contestant would have to be feminine to get into these contests beforehand. I do not see the problem.

Before anyone who thinks a certain way about these things, for the record... no, i am not gay. I believe that both men and women can be admired for their courage and beauty no matter what body they were born into.

You'd think. if this was something "god" didn't want to happen, then why oh why has he not stopped it from happening. Crazy world huh.

reply to post by paradox


My girlfriend recalls memory's when she was younger than 5 and so do I!!

She has ALLWAYS felt she was a girl no question about it, she was first born of 7 and had a very masculin father who tryed to curb the femanin person inside her most of her childhood and made her life hell!!

Saying that it was the parents fault she is like this is stupid!! she came from a small town in central Mexico where people like her were ridiculed and harrassed for.being who theyN were!!

Her own mother told her "if you ever have a child that is gay it's better that the child is dead!"


So there wasNOTHING femanin on how she was raised!!

Originally posted by Frankenchrist
That's a man with boobs and a mutilated penis.


Shes pretty cute.

It's only mutilation if it's non-voluntary (religious practices as an example).

I'm glad they let HER back in, SHE shouldn't have been kicked out to begin with.
Something for the religious to consider. You were not born your religion, and as adults you CHOOSE your religion, some of you believe in your God(s) so strongly that you identify yourself by it, is anyone telling YOU not to do so?

reply to post by quedup


God made that person the way he wanted that person to be. To get a sex change is like saying God made a mistake in their gender assignment...God makes no mistake ever. In Genesis it talks about God fashioning man after himself and it was excellent in every way. If it isn't a masterpiece God doesn't make it, do not tear a person down because they don't know the word as well as you. If a person is struggling with the word then pick them up and help them with love. Not by lashing out at them.

This is not a tricky question. 80% of men wouldn't want to have sex with a tranny no matter what and unless the guy is gay, he will prefer a real woman every time - gay or bored of usual sex. Normal people want to have sex with a beautiful woman or at least enjoy the fantasy.

These are competitions to see who is the most desirable woman. Woman have always had this power over men and this little tid-bit (Miss Universe competition) shows up in our culture.

The whole "sexist" issue is ridiculous from the start. Either women want to be attractive to men or they don't.

If you don't like it, don't be competitive yourself.

PC has obviously misunderstood the whole thing, for it to be a question if men, can compete.

I get the ARGUMENT
A woman can be born as a man, and that's for them to decide, and even if they look somewhat pretty, they are very far from ideal.

They should not be allowed to compete. I'm embarrassed for Canada, It's not a legal issue.

If they can sue, than I can sue fro not being interviewed for the job as the coach of my football team. They won't even answer my calls. I have no skill or experience, but I read a book and put on a coach's uniform.

What a waste of time and yuck, such a blight on the competition for anyone who might have taken it seriously.

reply to post by Kali74




You may not have been born into your religion BUT you were certainly born into your body

that was either Male or Female or in a very few instances hermaphrodite [in that instance i

would think you had some choice in which way to go]

mmmmm traps...

I'm not religious... but I cant agree with this.

"She" is not a woman. Shouldnt be allowed. Period.

reply to post by InsideYourMind


Genetics and nature would definitely like to disagree with your "gender is a mindset not an organ" comment. Gender is wholly an organ, its how life works. Men have Penises and a scrotum, women have a vagina, and a uterus. Also they have different dominant hormones due to their genetics. So no gender is an organ and not a mindset, if someone doesn't like their gender well then they can lead the genetic field of research for gene therapy to replace sex chromosomes.

Miss Universe is for natural born women just like the presidency is for natural born citizens. See what they're doing here?

reply to post by Kali74


Wrong depending on where you live, you are born into a religion. If you were born in Ancient Greece you would worship the Olympic Gods. If you were born into a Native American tribe before Christianity came to America you would believe their religion. If you are born in the Middle East you will believe in the Islamic Faith. You are born into faiths depending on where you live, its just in America we have the choice of religion. Other areas of the world it is forced and it becomes to natural to not choose at all but think it is nature.

reply to post by Partygirl


It's a mindless parade of vapidness and vanity and what should anyone care whether or not a given person is allowed in the contest.

On the other hand, what about those people God decided to put on this earth with mixed sexual parts? Generally there is some form of "decision" making process whereby either the parents or the child is allowed to decide his/her path in life. Sometimes, the decision is made for the individual by doctors or guardians.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Woops, I deleted it when adding a part to the text.

Yes, I know what plagiarism is.

pla·gia·rism/ˈplājəˌrizəm/
Noun:
The practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own.

I'm afraid that wouldn't apply here
Now instead of straw man arguments, if you would care to refute anything said with proof, I'll be glad to hear it.

I pulled the first thing I found on google. In fact, what I posted is so well known, you can even do a search yourself and I'm sure you'll come across a source to your liking.

Until then, it seems you are the lousy source.

Actually, I haven't even seen you provide a single counter argument yet...besides thinking that transgendered people are magical spirits or something...

reply to post by SGTSECRET


I'd say to you and all the people.. Calling her a he..

Look at that photo and tell me you think it's a man, without feeling like a complete retard.

Looks like a woman to me.

reply to post by denynothing


Yes and no...and no some more.

It's in Secular America that you can choose your religion, but this is also the case in many other nations. No one in Brazil, Mexico, Switzerland, Canada, Argentina, Chile, South Africa, Russia, Japan, France, Spain, Italy, or many others. I think even in Israel, there is secularism and the ability to choose your religion.

Naturally, parents would steer their children in a particular direction, independent of whether the State was ambivalent or totalitarian in its imposition of religion (or lack thereof: China, for example).

In many of the countries I listed, Catholicism is predominant (though in South America it is losing its foothold to Reform sects). They have patron saints and everything (Mexico is the Virgen of Guadalupe; Brazil is the Virgin Aparecida, etc.), but aside from your family's wishes, you don't "have" to be Catholic in those nations.

So, I think it's important to remember that we aren't an all-around panacea to the world's problems. The ethnocentrism sounds good and all, but religious freedom is pretty well entrenched in much of the world, and in many ways is not so perfect here at home. A president, for example, as well as most elected officials would have great difficulty not being Christian and getting elected to office, let alone having no religion or at least a religion that is not part of the descendants of Abraham.