Miss Universe and Transgendered Contestants: A Tricky Social Issue

Above: Mr./Ms.Talackova (on the right)

The Miss Universe Organization announced Monday that it might reverse an earlier decision and allow a transgender woman to enter the Miss Universe Canada pageant.

Jenna Talackova, 23, was born male, leading organizers to disqualify her last month as a finalist in the 61st Miss Universe Canada pageant in May.

More at source

There is an argument now over whether transgendered people (i.e., those who have undergone sex-change operations) should be allowed in beauty contests. Originally Mr./Ms. Talackova, above, was disqualified, although after loud complaints, they are considering whether or not to let him/her into the contest.

This is a difficult matter that touches on many social issues: gender, sexuality, “political correctness,” and identity in general in a world where notions of identity seems to be becoming more fluid.

Personally, I do not believe Talackova can be considered a true woman in the sense that I am. As a Christian, I believe God made men and women differently for a reason. I understand this may not be a popular view, but it is mine, and I have a right to it. From a biological point of view, there is a difference between Talackova and me in that every cell in my body has XX chromosomes, while every cell in his/her body has XY chromosomes. This is true – in every single cell – no matter what he/she hacks off or plasters on to the body that God gave her. Nor will this person ever be able to conceive and bear a child (well, not with current technology, anyway). So I, personally, reject the notion that Talackova is a true woman. Sorry. If a man wants to dress and act as one, undergo surgery to look more like one, sleep with men, and be called “Ms.”, that’s fine with me – none of that bothers me. But deep down, I believe there is a difference.

I am also upset at the way “identity issues” seem to be rammed down our throat constantly. We are always having to walk on eggshells these days in case we offend somebody. Seems like lots of people use their differences from the norm to extract special recognition, or special privileges, or some kind of sympathy, or status as an oppressed minority. I believe that as we strive to grapple with the challenges ahead, we humans we should be focused on what unites us, what is the same about us, and what we share. Feelings of compassion and sympathy flow from a sense of sharing something with other humans, not setting them apart from us. I can’t help but think the constant, steady need to assert people’s differences creates more problems than it solves.

I wanted to get a man’s view on this so I asked my brother what he thought. My brother is a pretty conservative guy: a fundamentalist Christian like me, and he's also an Iraq war combat vet. But he was less delicate about the issue than me. After unloading a string of curse-words in my ear over the phone, he said, “They won’t rest until heterosexuality and attraction to women rather than men is a hate crime.” I don’t know if I’d go that far, but I can’t help but feel there is something more at work here, an agenda constantly being pushed by the mainstream media to denigrate heterosexuality and promote non-traditional ideas of gender and sexuality. I resent being made the target of a campaign to warp my sexuality and assault my Christian values, and I think its accelerating on all fronts. And is insulting, the idea that “your values are wrong and you will be forced to accept the new values.” Everything from shaming tactics to the constant media drumbeat for things like this. It makes me feel like an object being “talked at” rather than a person involved in a dialogue as an equal, who would be “talked with.”

Those are my thoughts. What are yours?

That's a hot dude...

No question they did right...it should have been canned from the contest...rules are rules...and thing is not a woman

Every human has to be respected for who they are and as what they are as long as they are not hurting anyone.

In my opinion this woman have the right to be who she is because she is not hurting anyone, your brothers meanings on the other hand I feel can hurt a lot of people if he was in a position of power. That goes for any and all religious fundamentalists.

As for the "Gay Agenda", I find it a slightly stupid notion that there is one at all. On the other hand I do not see the reason for gay parades in countries where there is allready acceptance, I mean there are no heterosexual parades are there...
If a gay parade is needed it is in countries like for instance Jamaica where gay people are murdered by christian fundamentalist rastafarians for their sexual orientation.

I'd go much furtrher and say that anyone who has ever had any medical intervention, either surgery or hormonal treatment to make them more feminine / attractive / beautiful could never be allowed to enter such a competition.
Basically, its cheating.

You know it is during times of of difficulty that man (as a species) excels, there seems to be a sweet spot in development. First war and conflict, conquest and then society develops. You can look through most of recorded history and observe this. With empires such as the Babylonia, The Hittites, the Greeks, Romans and on and on including the Ottoman empire, the British empire, but once the conquest is over and society develops it then starts to rapidly decay, social cohesion, morality all fall out of the door and excess and stupidity become the order of the day, and that signals the end of the empire its self. Witness the Orgies and gladiatorial arenas in Rome as evidence of this.

I think we are seeing this decline now in Western culture, in many ways we are all now part of the US empire, whether officially acknowledged or not, its influence on other nations is undeniable, and although there are cries of democracy and freedom, it has turned sour, the heart of the US empire is corrupt and that is filtering down through its empire.

This is why I feel eventually that the eastern philosophies will conquer the west, why the Muslim hoard will eventually take over, oh we might all cry never, we might all say how we will reach for our guns and defend our homes. We might even contemplate how much more advanced we are technologically speaking, but remember it was the uneducated and brutish barbarians that brought Rome down. We have lost our sense of purpose, we care only for ourselves and our own personal wishes, we have no sociality cohesion or togetherness. Our nations are divided, both externally and internally, we are divided. Ever part of the nation hates every other part of the nation, whether it be due to skin colour, religion, sexuality it doesn't matter, we have become nations of hate and in our death throws

Should a guy with a sex change be allowed to enter a miss world contest? Hell no just as a woman should not be allowed to enter Mr universe. Not that I think there is anything wrong with gay people, or transgender people. But crap like this should not even be a consideration, a man is a man and a woman is a woman and no operation or drugs changes that. We have to stop blurring the lines of nature, trying to alter what is the natural order of things, If a guy (or a woman for that matter) wishes to live as the opposite sex that is fine, good luck to them, but we cannot allow their personal wishes to change societies norms, it is their choice but it is not societies choice.

We have to keep social cohesion and some sort of moral code, otherwise we may as well give our society up.

My god man, I think I am gay now. This... is unexpected.

Let this Trap enter.

Originally posted by carabao
Every human has to be respected for who they are and as what they are as long as they are not hurting anyone.

People have a right to be respected for who they are, true.

They don't have a right to be celebrated for who they aren't, however.

If no one knew she had been a he would this be an issue? Probably not. I don't understand why someone would go through something like this but I won't judge them. Except on their beauty in a pagent.

Originally posted by Partygirl

Originally posted by carabao
Every human has to be respected for who they are and as what they are as long as they are not hurting anyone.

People have a right to be respected for who they are, true.

They don't have a right to be celebrated for who they aren't, however.

If the rules of miss universe states she has to be born a woman then she can not enter, if the rules does not say so, then she can enter. Simple as that.

But, from what I read from your post that isn't the real problem you have with the LGBT comunity is it?

Jenna Talacova Can compete in Miss Universe

reply to post by Partygirl


From the article:

"The Miss Universe Organization will allow Jenna Talackova to compete in the 2012 Miss Universe Canada pageant provided she meets the legal gender recognition requirements of Canada, and the standards established by other international competitions,"

A source tells PEOPLE that the Miss Universe Organization "is extending invitation/waiver to Jenna, and they're working on full inclusion for future contestants for 2013."

Case closed, even though I will never understand why anyone would want to be a contestant in any miss or mr competition

That's a man with boobs and a mutilated penis.


Shes pretty cute.

Not a woman therefore kicked out of the contest, makes perfect sense. Just because you medically screw over your body to try and be something you aren't doesn't really make you that 'thing' you were trying to be. Born a man, you're a man, born a woman...you get it.

reply to post by SGTSECRET


Except it doesn't....
She can enter the competition as long as she is recognized as a woman by the country of her origin, and she is.

reply to post by Partygirl


Considering you believe that God made man and woman to be different - what about the idea that we are all one?

Not being deliberately awkward here but I do think that these individuals could be here to show us that it's who you are - not what you are and as we women are always wanting a man who can get in touch with his feminen side perhaps they are making a very valid point.

I do recognize how it can make many people feel uncomfortable but to be prejudice against them is no different from being prejudice against - disabled people/Blind/Deaf/Black/White/Gay - We are what we are!

I also accept that some people can turn to this kind of diversion of sex for purely sexual kicks - I'm not talking about these people - in my mind that is equal to a level of perversion - I'm talking about those among us who truly believe that they have been born in the wrong body. Individuals who can truly have a sense of both!

Good Topic S&F

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by quedup
reply to post by Partygirl

 

[quotrConsidering you believe that God made man and woman to be different - what about the idea that we are all one?

That is not my belief and there is no logical consistancy in your statement. You might have as well have written, "Considering that you like fresh ground beef, how about giving this 4-week-old roasted porcupine corpse a try?" But this is not the place for that argument.

Not being deliberately awkward here but I do think that these individuals could be here to show us that it's who you are - not what you are and as we women are always wanting a man who can get in touch with his feminen side perhaps they are making a very valid point.

Conjecture.

I do recognize how it can make many people feel uncomfortable...

Ah yes, "uncomfortable" - a shaming tactic. "If you don't agree with me its because you are flawed, weak and uncomfortable! Agree with me or people will think there is something wrong with you." No thanks. I respond to logic, not intellectual bullying.

but to be prejudice against them is no different from being prejudice against - disabled people/Blind/Deaf/Black/White/Gay - We are what we are!

How about pedophiles? They are what they are, right? If you disagre, where do you draw the line?

And, I'm not saying these people don't have a right to exist: Just that I don't think a beauty contest is the proper venue to "celebrate" them.

Good Topic S&F

Thanks!

TextJust because you medically screw over your body to try and be something you aren't

reply to post by SGTSECRET


This is where you are so wrong mate! Before they have the Op they feel they are living something that they aren't - you have it mixed up.

There is actually a medical term for such conditions.

Originally posted by AnonymousFem
reply to post by Partygirl

 

Who are you to dictate to anyone who lives on this planet whom they can be and whom they cannot be.

I sad nothing about who they can and can't be. But they are not real women. Sorry. And they have no place in a beauty contest for real women.

It is people like you and your views is the reasons why there is so many problems in this world.

You know where you can stick your Christian values, where the sun does not shine.

My, what a beacon of tolearance and acceptence of differences you are!