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Is this a real Masonic Sword?

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posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 02:23 AM
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I was browsing online for some swords to buy, since i collect them, and came across this sword. It is on auction, and i would like to know if this is an authentic Masonic sword, or merely a replica. Anyone that might be able to help?

Here is the link

Blade

Thanks all

vvv



CX

posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 02:29 AM
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Can't help you i'm afraid, but i'd be interested to know what makes a "real masonic sword" a "real" one.

Does it have to be made by masons? Made specificaly for masons?

I could make anything and stick a masons symbol on it, does that make it a real masonic item?

CX.



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 02:30 AM
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reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep
 


I think that its beautiful. If I were to look for authenticity, and not a replica, the "Made in England" thing threw me off. I think that if it were original that would not be there. Just my opinion though.

Good Luck, NRE.



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 02:31 AM
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Originally posted by CX
Can't help you i'm afraid, but i'd be interested to know what makes a "real masonic sword" a "real" one.

Does it have to be made by masons? Made specificaly for masons?

I could make anything and stick a masons symbol on it, does that make it a real masonic item?

CX.


No that would not make it authentic.

I want to know if this is indeed a sword that was, or is used in Masonic rituals or ceremony's.

And yes, "made specifically for masons" would be one of the things that matters indeed.

vvv



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 02:31 AM
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Well from their website I found this:

www.toye.com...

although it does not say what kind of ceremonial swords they make it can be assumed by this:

www.toye.com...

Looks like a nice piece though.


CX

posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 02:32 AM
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reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep
 


Thank you for the info.


CX.



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 02:39 AM
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OP are you a Mason? If not, why do you care? No judgement just sort of curious. Are you planning on buying the thingamajig if it is deemed authentic?

Collector. Oh. Still, I am a bit curious about your interest in this sword. Also, price seems, uh, iffy. Not a Mason, have no idea what I;m talking about, but that much money seems, well a bit much.
edit on 3-4-2012 by Domo1 because: (no reason given)


ETA, yeah, again... How much is R1,400.00? If not US, then Euros. I don't even know what R means. Yay Americans! We are wordly!
edit on 3-4-2012 by Domo1 because: something



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 02:45 AM
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I dont want to say y. Im just voting no.



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 02:47 AM
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Does the red on the blade indicate it's been used for it's "intended purpose"? Aka running someone through?



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 02:49 AM
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Originally posted by Domo1
OP are you a Mason? If not, why do you care? No judgement just sort of curious. Are you planning on buying the thingamajig if it is deemed authentic?

Collector. Oh. Still, I am a bit curious about your interest in this sword. Also, price seems, uh, iffy. Not a Mason, have no idea what I;m talking about, but that much money seems, well a bit much.
edit on 3-4-2012 by Domo1 because: (no reason given)


ETA, yeah, again... How much is R1,400.00? If not US, then Euros. I don't even know what R means. Yay Americans! We are wordly!
edit on 3-4-2012 by Domo1 because: something


lol, That would be about 140 euro as a starting bid, or roughly 175 dollars.

I just like to collect authentic swords, and if its authentic, i would like to get it.

Although, i do suspect this is a rather well made replica.


vvv



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 02:59 AM
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reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep
 


Oh man, OK. I thought it would be around 1400 Euros and pooed myself. Seemed a bit, uh, pricey. Obviously I have no idea if it's authentic, but if you're a collector and you love it, buy it. I get the authenticity check though. Still, if you love it, get it. It is a good looking sword. Perhaps check Mason sword maker prices, if that's a thing. Everything I'm unsure of I Google, and it rarely steers (heh) me wrong.



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 05:36 AM
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reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep
 


My guess is it's a real ceremonial sword. It wouldn't make sense to make replicas of that seeing as how they are almost replicas to begin with. (ceremonial and not for battle) I would ask for some history on it. If it was used in Scottish Rite ceremonies, or if it was a Tyler's sword. If it was a Tyler's sword, ask which lodge it was associated with.

Sorry I cannot be of more help.



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 06:21 AM
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I have a sword collection myself. There is not a lot of info nor is the photo very good but never the less it is a replica. No, the red is not blood, dried blood on a blade is extremely dark red.

The blade pictured looks to be of rat tail construction, it is pretty but not for a serious collector.

P



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 07:19 AM
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Originally posted by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep
I was browsing online for some swords to buy, since i collect them, and came across this sword. It is on auction, and i would like to know if this is an authentic Masonic sword, or merely a replica. Anyone that might be able to help?
"Authentic" is a meaningless descriptor. You can buy new, "authentic" ceremonial swords for a quarter of the price here.



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 07:42 AM
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ND and JN have already told you exactly right. The only thing that would make a Masonic sword valuable would be if it were used in some famous ceremony. Was it a famous Tyler's sword, or was it made by a famous sword maker. The Masons were never swashbuckling pirates, so there would not be an "authentic" sword, but there could be a sword with an interesting history that might give it value. You'd have to get the owner of the sword to tell you who made it, where, and when, and what was the sword's use since it was made, and what interesting characters would have used the sword over the years. The only value would be in the history, it never would have been a "real" sword as in a high quality sword like a Katana. The Masons would have no use for a high quality sword like that, so there is no value in the sword itself.



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 07:44 AM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep
I was browsing online for some swords to buy, since i collect them, and came across this sword. It is on auction, and i would like to know if this is an authentic Masonic sword, or merely a replica. Anyone that might be able to help?
"Authentic" is a meaningless descriptor. You can buy new, "authentic" ceremonial swords for a quarter of the price here.


There is a huge difference between new and old. If the advertised blade was from 1886 you would not be so quick to dismiss it! The OP is requesting info on the advertised blade. I assume he wants to cover all bases.

The link you provided is in my opinion questionable at best. The vast majority of REAL info is missing from the sites info. Blade type, construction, material etc. Still pretty pictures. Likely they are nothing more than cheap imitations.

P



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 07:51 AM
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reply to post by pheonix358
 



Likely they are nothing more than cheap imitations.


That's the thing. Any "Masonic" sword is only a cheap imitation. Masons are not warriors, and we don't have "real" blades. Anything used by a tyler or in a ceremonial will be a cheap imitation, so the only value is in the sword's history, and one has to be able to document, verify, and prove that history or it is useless.

A sword from 1886 is probably still pretty worthless unless you have a signed document and/or a photo of some famous Mason holding the sword.



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 07:52 AM
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FYI Real Masonic blades used by real Masonic Branches (not your local branch at the little hall down the road) were superb blades made by sword masters bonded to the Masons. These blades do not generally come on to the open market.

Much of the info in replies is from scholars who should keep to subjects that they are well versed in>

P



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 07:53 AM
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Originally posted by ntech
Does the red on the blade indicate it's been used for it's "intended purpose"? Aka running someone through?


could be rust.

anyways there are not enough pics to tell for sure. there would be something about it to make it obvious.



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 07:54 AM
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reply to post by pheonix358
 



FYI Real Masonic blades used by real Masonic Branches (not your local branch at the little hall down the road) were superb blades made by sword masters bonded to the Masons.


I'd love to hear your take on the difference between "real Masonic Branches" and "not your local branch."

Now, the original Knight's Templar probably had some superb blades, but as far as I know from the "experts" there has never been a direct connection drawn between the knights and the Masons.

So, what is it you are talking about?



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