Obama warns 'unelected' Supreme Court against striking down health law

Originally posted by kawika
reply to post by memnoch25

 

Ok, I'll bite.

If the purpose of the Supreme Court is not to determine what laws are unconstitutional...

Then what would be the purpose of it?

The purpose of the Supreme Court is to - rubber stamp - any and all bills that

- transform - America into some twisted iron fist of socialism.
-----

If they refuse to do so, then they are labeled - radical & unelected - fools.

I find it hilarious for the Right to complain about Obama's comments....especially after all this.

Gingrich: Courts Are Far Too Powerful


Bill O'Reilly Rips Prop. 8 Ruling As 'Judicial Activism'


Gingrich: I Would Send Police To Arrest 'Activist Judges'


Roe v. Wade: Mitt Romney flip-flops on Roe v. Wade (oh no...Romney is telling the SCOTUS what to do)


Ron Paul: Repeal Roe vs. Wade (OMG...Ron Paul...the "constitutionalist" is also telling the SCOTUS what to do)

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Chris Matthews is also complaining about Obama.

Apparently, Obama does not enjoy the company of fellow democrats in congress.

BTW, lashing out at the Supreme Court has already backfired. Obama is doomed.

reply to post by nenothtu


The only thing that will save the country is for the GOP to return to it's roots...and by that I mean old-school GOP who are offended by what Newt Gingrich once derided as "Right Wing Social Engineering". Big government from the right is no better than the left.

Take the GOP and minus the evangelical right and all the social engineers...the "values voters".

What you are left with then is actual grown-ups. Fiscal conservatives. Folks that lend balance to the idealistic left.

The country needs both...a progressive, idealistic left constantly trying to push the country forward and a fiscally conservative right to fence them in when the left's idealism overshadows rational though and practicality.

But as long as we are in a "culture war" egged on by a neo-con, big government, GOP partnered with the evangelical right and exploiting social issues...gay marriage, race, contraception, religion ad nuaseum. Then the left can meet them on the field of "social" issues and fight there...a place where niether the left or right belong...and no one discusses the difficult issues.

A diseased Right creates a diseased Left. Both expanding government...just arguing about what that expansion should be.

I hope every day that the GOP recovers it's sanity and removes the growing tumor of the Evangelical Right and "Big Government" conservatives who look to legislate values...so that the left, which I lean toward, can be held to account and recover thier own sanity. Our government operates best when it is balanced, progressive, yet conservative upon where they push forward. Advancing un an efficient and globally strategic way. A balance between the idealistic left, which is neccessary to progress and the conservative Right that demands that any iniative be neccessary and fiscally responsible. Government only as big as it needs to be and no more. How the hell do we arrive there when we spend weeks debating birth control, abortion, gay marriage, whether a mosque is built in Kentucky...with people calling eachother terrorists and Kenyans and socialists etc. etc.?? Where are the grown-ups in DC?

Where are the old school conservatives? Have they been run out of town by the far right mobs screaming RINOs? Do they sit silent in fear of thier base's fury? I hope and pray they take back thier party soon...cuz the left needs them. Without them the left has no one to restrain their idealism. A complete victory for the Left or the Right spells doom in my opinion. So strangely enough, I am left of center, but hoping that the Right recovers it's sanity and holds appropriate power so we can get back to focusing on what we need to do as a country.

Originally posted by Indigo5



Where are the old school conservatives? Have they been run out of town by the far right mobs screaming RINOs? Do they sit silent in fear of thier base's fury? I hope and pray they take back thier party soon...cuz the left needs them. Without them the left has no one to restrain their idealism. A complete victory for the Left or the Right spells doom in my opinion. So strangely enough, I am left of center, but hoping that the Right recovers it's sanity and holds appropriate power so we can get back to focusing on what we need to do as a country.

Seriously???

There are many here on this site. It appears that you choose to ignore us.

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by Indigo5



Where are the old school conservatives? Have they been run out of town by the far right mobs screaming RINOs? Do they sit silent in fear of thier base's fury? I hope and pray they take back thier party soon...cuz the left needs them. Without them the left has no one to restrain their idealism. A complete victory for the Left or the Right spells doom in my opinion. So strangely enough, I am left of center, but hoping that the Right recovers it's sanity and holds appropriate power so we can get back to focusing on what we need to do as a country.

Seriously???

There are many here on this site. It appears that you choose to ignore us.

I was talking about DC where actual traditional conservatives are a near extinct species.

I assume you read my post since you qouted it, so you would know the same.

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by Indigo5

 

Yes, I also provided a FOX link as well.

And again, for like the fifth time or something. Your example of the grand scientific polls of 900 people is just what the liberal doctor ordered.

Again.....try 200 Polls totaling around 200k people...Not 900 people...does denial of this magnitude burn calories?

www.realclearpolitics.com...

reply to post by Indigo5


Oh no, know I do understand. You think that all the polls are combined for a greater snapshot.


Nope, as the 2 links you provided used the same Gallop poll.

The Polls span over the course of what, a year, 2 years?
And the polls are all the same, right? Not different like one being of likely voters outside a Detroit Homeless shelter, or registered voters over the phone, or just random people outside an OWS rally?


Real scientific.



Anyone in statistics can tell you that any poll can be shaped to provide any outcome.

So, back to historical facts and reality.....................

Oh, and there are some real Conservatives in DC. They are just brow beaten by Liberals and the Admin and portrayed as loons or evil meanies.

reply to post by macman


You clearly don't understand random sampling and statistics.

Originally posted by nenothtu

I believe "hand-ups" became "hand -outs" through the development of an entitlement mentality - people receiving "hand-ups" came to think of them as entitlements, and a permanent condition. It is now becoming ingrained in the American psyche, much to our detriment. People are increasingly beginning to think they are somehow "due" access to other folks' money. That will eventually wreck the economy, the moral fiver of America, and the drive for independence - including independent thought. We cab=n see the signs of rot already, all around us.

Correct. Somewhere all the way America has become completely unable to tell the difference between mistakes and mistakes that matter. We are all about absolutes. If helping single mothers in need is "good"...then allowing them to become professional baby-making machines as an occupation is "better". If drugs in the schools are "bad"...then we will suspend kids for having Tylenol in their lockers because Tylenol is a "drug". I just really don't think it should be so hard to decide who is abusing the system and who isn't.

Irregardless, the best way to reduce spending on social programs is just to bring manufacturing jobs back. I love the IDEA of "training a new work force for the 21st century" while we send "low level" jobs out to China ...but it's just unrealistic to think that the bottom half of the bell curve in ANY given society is suddenly going to master calculus, trig, and algorithmic math and become computer scientists or whatever.

Are the Asians and Indians whipping our asses? You bet. But it's not that the kids are "dumber"...it's that Asia and India have a linguistic advantage in these subjects and the fields were simply non-existant back in "the good ol' days". We now know that the primary language a child learns in their infancy winds up having a MASSIVE effect upon the development of the rest of their cognitive skills. Makes perfect sense...language whether spoken or written, is the basic "operating system" that is responsible for getting all information beyond basic sensory perception in and out of the brain. It's the basic I/O of human culture. Non-Western languages such as Chinese, Japanese, and Sanskrit are HIGHLY mathematical and EXTREMELY symbolic. The traditional Chinese alphabet has over 50,000 "letters" for Christsake...is it any wonder they have an easier time understanding symbolic math? They've been constructing complex symbolic expressions since the time they were four or five....far more intricate than the western languages.

Thus...at the end of the day we have pretty much the same people as any other civilization has. 50% or so are going to score a 100 or higher on an IQ test and 50% will score below that mark. These people who might lack sheer, raw, intellect might still have excellent work ethics, and a TON of "common sense" Historically these people were always agriculturists the world over for about the last 13,000 years or so. In the last couple of hundred, we saw a lot of them shift to industrial production and assembly lines. They were GOOD citizens.

So...what the HELL do we do with them now? We moved the assembly lines to China because there are a BILLION potential workers...even while the farms replaced physical workers with machinery. We could send them to work at Taco Bell...but let's face it....THAT isn't going to pay enough to afford health care. From here on out in higher mathematics and engineering Asians and Indians will have a cognitive advantage over us. Young kids are an open slate so we can overcome this, but not right away...it's gonna take 20-30 years and a complete re-invention of our educational system.

We gotta do SOMETHING.

Personally, I think an excellent first step is to start making lobbying an act of treason and punishable as the same. I bet this country would return to 90's-level prosperity in less than 8 years....and then continue to improve from there.

No labor unions, no special interest groups catering to the oil companies. No lobbyists, no bribes. No law enforcement except that which has a Sheriff ELECTED by the people. No career politicians, term limits on all of them. No super-PACS. No privately-run for-profit Federal Reserve to fund these bastards.

What do you want to bet the rest just sort of works itself out?

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Yes, yes I do.
I work directly with a guy that was in statistics for 15 years.
They can be created to provide sway one way or the other.

Originally posted by Xieon
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

We've strayed so far from common law it is not even funny. They are just looking for any, and all reasons to drag you in, fine you, torture you, and let you leaving with diseases.

There's so many laws and statues it's insane. Couple that with a fear of "terrorism" perpetually in motion by the elite makes for a great condition for a technocratic run dictator ship with just trained, obedient slaves.

Not to mention the worst part is that they are getting any high school drop out to do the jobs. Regardless of if it is the TSA firing weapons out hotel rooms, and groping children, or simply the teenager who was working at Walmart the other day, and made me search through my bags to find certain items to prove I had bought the right items for that damn $1 cupon which isn't coming out of their pocket.

Everyone is a cop now. The littlest thing gets you in jail with a potentially ruined life. It's insane.

edit on 3-4-2012 by Xieon because: (no reason given)

"If you see something...say something", right?

Seems to me every man, woman, and child ought to be calling the "Terror Hotline" at DHS and reporting that Dick Cheney appears to be behaving suspiciously and always has been, for that matter.

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by OutKast Searcher

 

Yes, yes I do.
I work directly with a guy that was in statistics for 15 years.
They can be created to provide sway one way or the other.

I think the AP does their polls in reverse.

First they get the target percentage they are looking for, then they stack the poll

with left wing loons until the numbers look good.

It always comes out when you read the details of the poll.

reply to post by Eurisko2012


Yeah, basically polls of people, by people I don't trust.

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by OutKast Searcher

 

Yes, yes I do.
I work directly with a guy that was in statistics for 15 years.
They can be created to provide sway one way or the other.

Statistics is the science which proves beyond all reasonable doubt that the average human being has one testicle.

Correctly performed statistical analysis doesn't have this problem. The devil is in the details. The CONCEPT of polling is really pretty good. However, unless you are ALSO downloading a .pdf that contains the details of the experimental design, and "shows the work" on how those calculations are being performed...you might as well toss the results right in the trash.

Shockingly few people know the difference between the arithmetic mean and the average. Even fewer people know that there are are about 10 different equations to produce this value...NONE OF WHICH are the Sum/the # of events.

Fewer people still realize that calculating a given statistical equation in on a calculator, in Excel, in and a "real" statistical analysis program such SPSS, SAS, or STATA will quite frequently give you three entirely different results due to syntax issues.

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by OutKast Searcher

 

Yes, yes I do.
I work directly with a guy that was in statistics for 15 years.
They can be created to provide sway one way or the other.

Sure...statistics CAN create a skewed view of the data...but it doesn't mean they always do.

Polls have a good track record of being accurate as far as trending.

If you want to deny it, fine...but the only thing you can claim is that you have no idea what reality is. You can't look at statistics and say "Those are wrong...I know what is really happening". Because then you are denying statistical, real world, data and saying that you just "know" better without any data backing you up.

So deny polls all you want...just ignore them...say they don't mean one thing or another...but don't try to state they are false unless you have data to back that up.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


If I had the time, I would view each and every poll, the means used and give a greater detailed statement.

But, knowing that polling is not perfect, and the history of polls, both left and right, I state they are not to be trusted as they can be skewed.

What was the famous phenomenon called where people polled gave statements that they thought the poll giver wanted to hear, as opposed to how they actually voted????????

reply to post by milominderbinder

"If you see something...say something", right?

Seems to me every man, woman, and child ought to be calling the "Terror Hotline" at DHS and reporting that Dick Cheney appears to be behaving suspiciously and always has been, for that matter.

I would think that hotline is on red alert right now.

People are furious with Obama's "comments".

Worse yet, what was he "thinking" about ?

What would he have really liked to "say" ?

Hmmm.

It's all about perception.

Obama has been "acting" suspiciously for a long time.

What should people do if they see Obama at Wal-Mart ?

One of the biggest joke polls is the unemployment figures.

That alone will be Obama's downfall.

Originally posted by Indigo5
reply to post by nenothtu

 

The only thing that will save the country is for the GOP to return to it's roots...and by that I mean old-school GOP who are offended by what Newt Gingrich once derided as "Right Wing Social Engineering". Big government from the right is no better than the left.

Take the GOP and minus the evangelical right and all the social engineers...the "values voters".

What you are left with then is actual grown-ups. Fiscal conservatives. Folks that lend balance to the idealistic left.

The country needs both...a progressive, idealistic left constantly trying to push the country forward and a fiscally conservative right to fence them in when the left's idealism overshadows rational though and practicality.

This conversation has taken a disturbing turn - but in a good way

Back in the day, I was considered a "right winger". Even then, I raised the ire of the right every now and then, although not as much as now, when dealing with neocons. I recall the days of Falwell and the "Moral Majority" - which I always maintained were neither moral nor a majority - but that, I believe, was the beginning of the end, looking back. I've never supported those loons, because they are being unfaithful to both their politics AND their religion, and I'll have no truck with them.

Somewhere along the line I realized that I was so far to the "right" that I wrap back around to the left. For example, I can see the lunacy of decrying "big government" while at the same time calling for a new Amendments specifying what other folks do in the dark in their own chambers. If I'm not right there with them, why the hell should I care what they're up to?

It's nonsensical to be pushing both "Small government" and increased governmental power at the same time.

But as long as we are in a "culture war" egged on by a neo-con, big government, GOP partnered with the evangelical right and exploiting social issues...gay marriage, race, contraception, religion ad nuaseum. Then the left can meet them on the field of "social" issues and fight there...a place where niether the left or right belong...and no one discusses the difficult issues.

A diseased Right creates a diseased Left. Both expanding government...just arguing about what that expansion should be.

Exactly. Some time between 1998 and 2000, the Republican party left me, and old farts like me, altogether. They got so wrapped up in fighting an imaginary battle against "the other team" that they left the people high and dry, and then we figured out that "the other team" was just a different mask on the SAME team. Now, whether one would argue that the "left" is the same as it always was, and the "right" swung left, or whether one would argue that the "left" is not the same as it was, and has swung to the "right" is immaterial to me. What's important is that they are the SAME - with different masks on, to be sure - but pursuing the same ultimate goal of power and sujugation over a once free people, albeit by different routs. The routes mean nothing to me, either - it's the end result that counts.

I hope every day that the GOP recovers it's sanity and removes the growing tumor of the Evangelical Right and "Big Government" conservatives who look to legislate values...so that the left, which I lean toward, can be held to account and recover thier own sanity. Our government operates best when it is balanced, progressive, yet conservative upon where they push forward. Advancing un an efficient and globally strategic way. A balance between the idealistic left, which is neccessary to progress and the conservative Right that demands that any iniative be neccessary and fiscally responsible. Government only as big as it needs to be and no more. How the hell do we arrive there when we spend weeks debating birth control, abortion, gay marriage, whether a mosque is built in Kentucky...with people calling eachother terrorists and Kenyans and socialists etc. etc.?? Where are the grown-ups in DC?

The grown ups in DC have left the (Capitol) building. I used to entertain thoughts that the GOP maight come back around, but have despaired of that, and disabused myself of that notion. They're not coming back, so I walked away from that field, left it to the loons. An adversarial system is the best way to operate a government and keep it in check. I think that probably the only way we'll ever get back to that is to form another party to replace the GOP - and maybe another for the DNC - that would be for those on that side of the field to decide in their own interests - and go from there, leaving the kids we have now in the dust. I doubt that will happen, as I'm not sure that we can find enough people interested in the separation of State and Church, and the separation of State and Social Issues to form such parties.

Politics do not mix well with much of anything other than politics. Social problems will always be a part of the mix, as will economic considerations, but it goes beyond the pale to be legislating morality in either direction. It's not my job to tell someone else how to live if it doesn't infringe upon me, and likewise it's not their place to tell me how to live if I'm not infringing them. Mediating those instances of infringement is the business of government, not creating new ones.

Where are the old school conservatives? Have they been run out of town by the far right mobs screaming RINOs? Do they sit silent in fear of thier base's fury? I hope and pray they take back thier party soon...cuz the left needs them. Without them the left has no one to restrain their idealism. A complete victory for the Left or the Right spells doom in my opinion. So strangely enough, I am left of center, but hoping that the Right recovers it's sanity and holds appropriate power so we can get back to focusing on what we need to do as a country.

By "far right" and "RINOs", we probably mean differnt things. From where I stand, the same people that most refer to as "far right" ARE the RINOs. When one starts mixing reigion and social dictums into his politics, he forsakes politics from over here. Hannity is a RINO. O'Reilly is a RINO. Limbaugh may be King RINO. Bush (both) is (are)a RINO(s). Santorum is a RINO. Gingrich is a RINO. Romney, and anyone who would back him, is a RINO.

Old School conservatives are still around, they've just been redesignated as radicals, and have no one to speak for them. Sort of like the old school progressives.