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Think ObamaCare will save lives? Think again

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posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 04:53 PM
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Think ObamaCare will save lives? Think again


This article ^^ draws attention to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development
and how comparisons to "healthcare" and statistics.
especially mortality rates
OECD

The author focuses on ###SNIP###Care and exposes a few more myths,
and makes a case against the so called "single payer" systems.


by Mark LaRochelle
04/02/2012
Human Events

As the Supreme Court was preparing to consider whether the Constitution empowers the president to force American citizens to patronize a particular private industry, the Heritage Foundation’s Robert Bluey obtained a remarkable White House strategy memo. Administration officials, it reveals, are coordinating with liberal activist groups to pressure the court to ignore constitutional issues, and to focus instead on “real people and real benefits that would be lost if the law were overturned.”

The administration’s message is that the need for ObamaCare is so urgent that obstacles like the Constitution must be swept aside. Such trifles cannot be permitted to obstruct the United States from joining the civilized world of socialized medicine. After all, the U.S. has the most expensive and worst medical care of all industrialized nations, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), an international organization of (mostly) western democracies.



BUNK?

Let’s compare the actual results of pre-ObamaCare medicine in the U.S. with OECD averages, as reported by the OECD itself. Comparing the most common causes of death—heart attack, stroke and cancer—yields surprising results. Contrary to myth, average mortality rates in the OECD are actually higher than in the US across a wide range of such risks:

Heart attacks: the rate of in-hospital mortality following acute myocardial infarction: 26 percent higher

Strokes: 45 percent higher for women; 54 percent higher for men
Cancer: 5 percent higher for women; 11 percent higher for men
For the most common cancers, average OECD mortality rates are also higher than in the U.S.:
Prostate cancer: 28 percent higher
Colorectal cancer: 32 percent higher
Cervical cancer: 52 percent higher


For breast cancer, the 5-year survival rate in the U.S. is 7 percent higher than the OECD average. But perhaps the most perfect comparison is between the U.S. and Canada. In both countries, smoking rates fell from 42 percent in 1965 to 16 percent in 2009, but Canada has a European-style single-payer health system. The result: the mortality rate for men with lung cancer is 5 percent higher in Canada than in the U.S.




Some video "exposure" !!

(partial YouTube caption)

Happy Birthday Obamacare! The Little Lies That Grew Into The Biggest Government Intrusion Into Your Lives and The Greatest Government Take Over In American History! Ten of Obamacare's Biggest Lies and Failures from the Last Two Years!

The two biggest lies about Obamacare (among many) that were told to sell it to the American people were, The cost would be low and you would get to keep your own provider and the plan that you currently have! But 2 years later, the truth is....










edit on Apr-02-2012 by xuenchen because: (no reason given)

edit on Mon Apr 2 2012 by DontTreadOnMe because: Reaffirming Our Desire For Productive Political Debate (REVISED)




posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 04:57 PM
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This is a quote from the comments section from the OP article:


Actually it's much worse than you think.

In Alberta we have year long waiting lists for some services, about 10% of the population has no regular access to primary services, there is no quality control or public information on outcomes at all, and the official health care budget, about $16 billion this year, works out (for 3.8 million Albertans) to about $4,210 per person per year. That's 38% more than the average paid by Kaiser's American customers last year for fast, first class, services.


Is this common in Canada ?



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 05:03 PM
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You do know that Obamacare isn't socialized medicine in the slightest, right?
And where were you when there was the individual mandate for car insurance?
and that article is so biased it's ridiculous...the conclusions he's drawing are absurd.
edit on 2-4-2012 by Ghost375 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 05:06 PM
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Thanks for the link to a far-right, Conservative, apparently scripture-based website, where a lot of the posting is based on the principle that if you only spend health money on those who have paid for it, then everything will be fine. For those who can afford it. Why not tell us where you're coming from when you post?

It seems that where the Bible exhorts us to love thy neighbour as thyself, that only involves the neighbours in the nice houses around you. If these crazies cared as much about the poor, disabled, homeless and jobless as they do their guns, they might have some small chance of entering the Kingdom of Heaven



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 05:08 PM
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How many Canadians have to declare bankruptcy due to large portions of their hospitable bill not being paid by their insurance? Just curious.

I do know one thing about our medical system. Non emergency care is only quick if you have the funds or if your insurance approves the treatment. If your insurance denies coverage and you aren't well off, your not getting treatment anytime soon unless it's an emergency.



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 05:25 PM
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Originally posted by xuenchen
This is a quote from the comments section from the OP article:


Actually it's much worse than you think.

In Alberta we have year long waiting lists for some services, about 10% of the population has no regular access to primary services, there is no quality control or public information on outcomes at all, and the official health care budget, about $16 billion this year, works out (for 3.8 million Albertans) to about $4,210 per person per year. That's 38% more than the average paid by Kaiser's American customers last year for fast, first class, services.


Is this common in Canada ?



I don't think it's common. Maybe for certain operations only?
I've only lived in BC (Vancouver) and Saskatchewan. I've never had a problem getting a doctor appointment within a couple of weeks.
I've never needed anything major, or even a minor operation either though, so I don't know how good a judge I am with that part of it. I don't know anyone that's ever had trouble with that issue.
I don't know about the 10% with no access either. Do they try to get access? I've never been turned down by a doctor, maybe certain areas up north?

It is nice to be able to go to the doctor for any reason, and not even think about ever having to pay for more than a prescription - those aren't covered under basic free medical.

Also, the bit about $4210 per person per year- most people only go in for a once a year check up (if that), if they don't get too sick or in an accident, so their portion would just be used on someone else's care.



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 05:32 PM
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I have thought again, and again, and yes, I think having health insurance will save lives. Please provide any studies/statistics which PROVE otherwise.



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by Ghost375
You do know that Obamacare isn't socialized medicine in the slightest, right?
And where were you when there was the individual mandate for car insurance?
and that article is so biased it's ridiculous...the conclusions he's drawing are absurd.
edit on 2-4-2012 by Ghost375 because: (no reason given)


Some "absurd" comparisons might help.....

and I think car insurance is not mandatory if you don't drive.


You are only penalized if you own a car with no insurance and get caught.



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 05:34 PM
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Why would this moron of an author compare "Obamacare" to Canada's single payer system?

Better question...why would anyone buy into this comparison?



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by Snippy23
Thanks for the link to a far-right, Conservative, apparently scripture-based website, where a lot of the posting is based on the principle that if you only spend health money on those who have paid for it, then everything will be fine. For those who can afford it. Why not tell us where you're coming from when you post?

It seems that where the Bible exhorts us to love thy neighbour as thyself, that only involves the neighbours in the nice houses around you. If these crazies cared as much about the poor, disabled, homeless and jobless as they do their guns, they might have some small chance of entering the Kingdom of Heaven


I didn't see any Bible references in the article itself


...... are you pointing to something specific ?



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 05:39 PM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
Why would this moron of an author compare "Obamacare" to Canada's single payer system?

Better question...why would anyone buy into this comparison?


That's what we need to figure out.

It seems more like a comparison to "single payer" systems in general.

Comparing to "death rates".



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by Ghost375
You do know that Obamacare isn't socialized medicine in the slightest, right?
And where were you when there was the individual mandate for car insurance?
and that article is so biased it's ridiculous...the conclusions he's drawing are absurd.
edit on 2-4-2012 by Ghost375 because: (no reason given)


There is no individual mandate for car insurance! You don't drive or own a car, you don't pay.
Healthcare individual mandate....you pay.

and for you Obamacare hater's....99% of you haven't read the 2000 plus pages...you only know what Fox or Rush or some other corrupt bias source has told you.

The individual mandate in a nut shell........the only way to provide healthcare coverage to everyone, is to have a big enough pool to pay for it, which means everyone. The reason you need to get into the pool is because I don't want you to be all happy and healthy for 10yrs and not paying or having insurance... then have your kidney's shut down and decide to get insurance because under Obamacare, you can't be denied insurance for a pre-existing condition, and everyone knows that people like you are the majority....when I say people like you......I mean every single healthy person right now that doesn't have a great job with great insurance....because you WILL game the system if you are allowed.

oh, and if you have a problem with the constitutionality of this mandate.......fine.......just have Congress create yet another creative tax to cover it.......easy......constitutional.......solution.



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 05:47 PM
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Originally posted by xuenchen

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
Why would this moron of an author compare "Obamacare" to Canada's single payer system?

Better question...why would anyone buy into this comparison?


That's what we need to figure out.

It seems more like a comparison to "single payer" systems in general.

Comparing to "death rates".

Quite simply? I pay my taxes. I live as well as any middle class American (maybe better when you figure the banking shenanigans you suffered would put people behind bars in this country...but I digress). My prostate cancer was cured for $32 out of pocket...the total paid for parking at the hospital for diagnosis and treatment.



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 06:09 PM
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reply to post by oghamxx
 


I'm almost certain that lack of health insurance has never been listed as a cause of death on a death certificate.



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