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Is Honesty Dead?

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posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 11:20 AM
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I tripped over this article and it really struck a chord. ...I've tried to be scrupulously honest throughout my life. Granted, I've lost a few opportunities but overall I'd call it a successful "strategy" and way of being - one that's resulted in a better, happier life for me.

How about you? ...Do you think it's more important to "play the game"? To win and succeed by worldly standards, rather than live with old-fashioned integrity, and without a lot of toys and status-making stuff?



Although truthfulness is essential for good human relationships and personal integrity, it is often abandoned in pursuit of other life priorities.

Indeed, there may be a perception in many key areas of contemporary life—law, business, politics, among others—that expecting honesty on a regular basis is a naïve and foolish attitude, a “loser’s” way of operating. Such a perception is practically a mandate for personal dishonesty and a concession to interpersonal distrust. When we no longer assume that those who communicate with us are at least trying to tell the truth, we give up on them as trustworthy persons and deal with them only in a strictly instrumental manner. The bounds of mutual moral obligation dissolve, and the laws of the jungle reemerge.



Honesty has ceased to be seen as a virtue, and with its decline “our society risks a future of moral numbness,” writes William Damon in Defining Ideas, a journal published by the Hoover Institution at Harvard University. Damon is well aware that the little deception is sometimes morally justifiable, but he posits that “a basic intent to be truthful, along with an assumption that people can be generally taken at their word, is required for all sustained civilized dealings.”




posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by soficrow
How about you? ...Do you think it's more important to "play the game"? To win and succeed by worldly standards, rather than live with old-fashioned integrity, and without a lot of toys and status-making stuff?


I used to lie all the time, about stupid things, for no reason other than I didn't want people to know the truth. Things went exceedingly well for me in the World of Man, because everybody lies about everything anyway. However, in the World of My Heart, I was broken and hurting and empty.

So, I decided to tell the truth all the time, about everything, for no other reason other than that I was tired of lying. Things go terribly for me in the World of Man, because I get myself in "trouble" by telling the truth where most people would lie or not say anything at all. However, in the World of My Heart, I am healing and not hurting as much, and full of life.

Old-fashioned and me are synonyms at this point. I have very few "toys" and my life does not revolve around stuff. In fact, I don't see a point in having "special stuff"... because I don't care about what people see me with. I can't understand why it matters so much? It's just not important to me.

I'd much rather learn new things than buy new things.

So, No. Honesty is not dead. It is just not as treasured as it once was. It is that old, tarnished gold locket that has been lost for many years. But, it's still there. It's still good. It's still useful. And, it is always trustworthy.
edit on 4/2/2012 by ottobot because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 11:31 AM
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Honesty is key in actual communication. It is the keystone of ethics. Were this a peaceful world without warfare - both large and minute - it would be unthinkable to justify deceit, fraud, and dishonesty, but we do not live in a world without warfare and all warfare is based on deception.

I hope this thread gets the play it deserves.



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 11:39 AM
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reply to post by soficrow
 


Unfortunately, yes. George Orwell's line is par for the course.

I am compulsively honest and my spouse is the opposite extreme. My honesty has earned me many dozens (if not more) lectures from my Father. People just don't seem to WANT the truth anymore. My spouse turns every sentence into a lie; not in self-protection, not white lies nor even grey lies. I asked him "why?" and his reply was, "A lie is more interesting than the truth."

People who wear makeup, jewelry, tattoes, piercings, special haircuts, hair pieces, hairdos or hair colorings, special clothing that isn't in sync with their true personality ... all in an effort to disguise their true selves. This is a form of lying as well.

A head-hunter advised me to lie on a job application once. She claimed "everybody does it." I refused to lie and got the job on my own merit alone. One of my sayings is, "There's NO such thing as EVERYBODY anything."

So, I'm sure there are plenty of honest people out there somewhere ... but, lies are "expected" and are the norm for the business world.



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 11:47 AM
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reply to post by Trexter Ziam
 


well they do say honesty is the finest policy



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 11:53 AM
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That's probably why 1 in 10 of Wall Street's employees are clinical psychopaths
I'm honest everyday, in fact I actually get a kick out of being nice to everyone I see. People are generally to cooped up in their own world and often forget to smile, so its nice to bring one to somebody's day as often as I can. A lie just causes unwanted problems



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 12:02 PM
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A man's value, and worth, used to be based on his honesty. A lot of what was considered value and worth, is now placed upon things, instead of concepts. I'm not sure what the turning point in our history was that *things* became more important than honor, and honesty. I feel greed had a lot to do with it. Honesty fosters fairness. Greed fosters dishonesty.

Good topic OP...

Des



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 12:03 PM
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I never understood the people who live lie after lie. Honestly, (lol no pun intended) I don't understand how a logical thinking person would go that route, when the consequences are pretty obvious. I learned from an early age it's a lot easier to tell the truth and deal with the consequences, then tell a whopper and get in trouble for whatever you did and the fact you lied about it.



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 12:06 PM
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reply to post by soficrow
 



“a basic intent to be truthful, along with an assumption that people can be generally taken at their word, is required for all sustained civilized dealings.”


All my life I have been trustworthy,

and trusting....

and have been burned. Scarred. Yet, I maintain my honesty. Thanks for posting this, soficrow. Well worth the read, and timely in today's chaos of humanity. I'm finding it easier to accept rejection based on standing up for my principles. Rejection is never "comfortable", but it's tolerable, and even preferable, to aligning with anything that devalues dignity.

Once I discover a person has lied (after giving them the benefit of the doubt, which is my natural stance) or behaved in a harmful way, I never again can trust them. I'd rather stand alone than be surrounded by frauds.

I think if everyone were taught how to recognize their own inner conflicts, and communicate clearly why they are acting as they are, it would be a more peaceful planet. Sadly, too few people have insight, or even the ability to recognize how they are feeling, and even fewer are adept at communicating it with language.

Emotions can be expressed without acting out. Why is it not a universal skill? On the other hand, it's one of life's more curious mysteries....trying to figure out what makes people tick...how they came to be where they are....and how they are...

Perhaps the pace at which we are expected to live in the Western "business world" and "society", juggling balls while spinning plates on top of poles and hula-hooping at the same time....is the problem.

Breathe. Stop. Reflect. Muse. Take your time. Consider. Get off the hamster wheel.



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 12:46 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by soficrow
 



“a basic intent to be truthful, along with an assumption that people can be generally taken at their word, is required for all sustained civilized dealings.”


All my life I have been trustworthy,

and trusting....

and have been burned. Scarred. Yet, I maintain my honesty. Thanks for posting this, soficrow. Well worth the read, and timely in today's chaos of humanity. I'm finding it easier to accept rejection based on standing up for my principles. Rejection is never "comfortable", but it's tolerable, and even preferable, to aligning with anything that devalues dignity.

Once I discover a person has lied (after giving them the benefit of the doubt, which is my natural stance) or behaved in a harmful way, I never again can trust them. I'd rather stand alone than be surrounded by frauds.

I think if everyone were taught how to recognize their own inner conflicts, and communicate clearly why they are acting as they are, it would be a more peaceful planet. Sadly, too few people have insight, or even the ability to recognize how they are feeling, and even fewer are adept at communicating it with language.

Emotions can be expressed without acting out. Why is it not a universal skill? On the other hand, it's one of life's more curious mysteries....trying to figure out what makes people tick...how they came to be where they are....and how they are...

Perhaps the pace at which we are expected to live in the Western "business world" and "society", juggling balls while spinning plates on top of poles and hula-hooping at the same time....is the problem.

Breathe. Stop. Reflect. Muse. Take your time. Consider. Get off the hamster wheel.



I totally feel you. I'm also trusting, to the point of being called gullible sometimes lol. It's not in my nature to be deceitful, so I assume the same for others. It is hard when you give people your trust and they break it. I try to keep in mind there are many variables I don't always understand when this happens, but at some point it's like you said, I don't like to surround myself with frauds. I'm reminded of a quote I heard somewhere, "You shouldn't spend your time with people who make origami out of the truth."



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 03:45 PM
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I completely agree with what has been said. I especially noted that the word "loser" has been used.
Does the word "equality" stay true to its meaning when "loser" means:
loser (n) - Bing Dictionary
los·er [ lzər ]
somebody who has not won: a person or team that has failed to win a specific contest
somebody put at disadvantage: a person or thing adversely affected by a situation or course of action
somebody unsuccessful or unlucky: an unsuccessful or unlucky person who seems destined to fail repeatedly
ARE each one of us alive on earth within our own countries equal to EVERYONE within our sphere of influence?
equality (n) - Bing Dictionary
e·qual·i·ty [ i kwóllətee ]
state of being equal: rights, treatment, quantity, or value equal to all others in a specific group
equation with equal quantities: an equation in which the quantities on each side of an equal sign are the same
Would you be at all surprised if I were to say that you or your family or friends are of more value than I am?
Each of us has a sphere of influence, we make the ripples in the pond and we fall like rain. The sun shines and we are lifted up because the winds of change affect us all. But we are much more than water molecules, and all that I've read I've come to know that it's not easy to live fully upright as we understand the word righteous to be, but I think we seem to understand that, in due season, we must bear fruit.



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 07:01 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 



...I think if everyone were taught how to recognize their own inner conflicts, and communicate clearly why they are acting as they are, it would be a more peaceful planet. Sadly, too few people have insight, or even the ability to recognize how they are feeling, and even fewer are adept at communicating it with language. ...


Very insightful.


A key part of being honest is being honest with oneself. It's a skill - and does require awareness and practice. Beyond recognizing inner conflict, it's also important to be aware of one's true motives [they're not always what we consciously perceive them to be].



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 07:35 PM
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No. Just responsibility.
edit on 2-4-2012 by cavtrooper7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 11:14 PM
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Honesty is not dead, it is no longer valued. If you are honest your a sap, a fool and naive or worse, stupid. The clever and street smart are in control now.



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 12:10 AM
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I tell you what,

I have an ad seeking employment and a few items for sale at CraigsList SF

Just in the last 4 days I have flagged over 30 emails that I knew for a fact were scams.

Honestly? If I had the power I would strike every scammer stone dead in their tracks.

Just my 2cents



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 12:15 AM
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They've exposed the way all the media, legal, political, and world is run and who is in the better positions, a bunch of sociopaths, and as usual the ordinary people are the ones with virtue.



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 03:57 AM
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Honesty is usually just 'your opinion'. 'Your opinion' may be offensive. 'Your opinion' is not truth.



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 05:08 AM
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Honesty is not good or evil, it is a tool that can be used for it. Telling the truth can destroy a person's life and sometimes telling the truth can save it.



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 05:11 AM
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It may not be dead
But it is surely being shone through a prism, and the "tellers of truth" are choosing their self serving colors.



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 05:19 AM
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I feel like the balance lies in being honest selectively. I do not feel that all situations merit the direct truth nor does everyone. Personally, the more honest I am with someone the more I respect them. Not to say that I lie, I omit or keep my opinion to myself in "the world of men."




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