Satan is good and God is evil?

Op, I got to thinking, and you forgot the most important irony of the bible, and gods work.

"And he changeth the times and the seasons; He removeth

kings, and setteth up kings; he giveth wisdom unto the wise,

and knowledge to them that know understanding. He revealeth

the deep and secret things; he knoweth what is in the darkness,

and the light dwelleth with him." ( Dn 2: 20-22 )


I have said this before and I shall say it again. God appoints the same kings that have raped, pillaged, and created wars in the world, every decade since creation.

Then if that is not enough devastation, this god is going to throw "fire and brimstone" at the people, because it is foretold with "revelations".

Seriously, the god of this world installs ALL Kings, and then is upset with his own judgements-decisions, and throws "revelations" into the mix.

Any individual that is that sick, twisted, and demented, this day and age, would be locked up, and the key thrown away, would they not

reply to post by Infi8nity


I read the OP, and I am officially in love with this thread. It raises magnificent points...

The Truth of God and Satan

I have stated again and again that even though we view negativity is a bad light, it is the only thing that teaches us. We must experience both sides of the spectrum in order to progress, contrary to popular Christian belief.

God and Satan are just the two faces we have given to one being, because we are unwilling to reconcile the two polar halves that form one concept.

I completely disagree with the OPs interpretation of the biblical stories; especially the Genesis accounts.

It may be beneficial to seek understanding with regards to the analogies conveyed in those books. The story of Genesis is analagous to the conflict between the agricultural revolution and the old ways of hunter gatherers.

Read Ishmael by Daniel Quinn.

Originally posted by Cuervo

Originally posted by CaptainNemo

Originally posted by Cuervo

Originally posted by CaptainNemo
Well, one can argue, that had not the serpent [Disassociation with Satan] lied to Eve, all the plagues, deaths, and sorrow attributed to God would have never happened.

But the serpent didn't lie. In fact, the serpent was the only one who told them the truth. He told her that they would gain knowledge. God told them they would die. After they ate of it, they gained knowledge, God got scared, and they didn't die.

The serpent said they would be like gods. What did god say about it after they ate it? In Genesis 3:22, he said "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

So who lied?

Where are you getting that from?

'And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:' - Genesis 3:4

God said they would die, but he didn't say when. Adam and Eve eventually died.

The serpent lied/..

"But he didn't say when". Hahah! So if I said "if you eat that cookie, you will surely die" and you die decades later, I'm right?!

They were obviously talking about the consuming of it killing them, which it "surely" did not. The only reason they eventually died was because God was nervous of their power and did not let them eat of the immortality tree.

If you were to read the whole account with an unbiased mind and only looked at the factual statements, you would conclude:

1. God said the fruit would kill them
2. Serpent said the fruit would give them knowledge
3. They ate the fruit
4. They gained knowledge
5. They were not killed
6. God got scared and made their lives worse

If this were a children's book that you had no vested interest in, this would be the only conclusion that could be logically made.

That's a very poor analogy.

Adam and Eve had eternal life in the garden of Eden. They ate the fruit, were cast out, and eventually died. They died as a result of the fruit.

I have no problems reading the Bible. It seems like you do though. Your'e interpreting whole statements into it, and ignoring syntactical rules. Come on now, you're smarter than that.

Show me everything that the serpent in genesis says. He only says one line, and it's not what your'e saying.

I have had hundreds of what religious people would call debates, and I would call discussions about many things that are in the bible. If religious people believe that there is a conspiracy to turn them away, then I think they should be better prepared to have such conversations as opposed to just quoting scripture.

Why hasn't the church given man more ammunition to debate those who will question? To me that is a case for the church and their followers that should probably be discussed as soon as Sunday!!

Fire, brimstone, eternal damnation were stories that scared those thousands of years ago, that were illiterate, and still blamed natural disaster on gods anger for whatever they are willing to take blame for.

If religion has ANY way of redeeming itself, (and yes they will have to, due to most denominations now being accused for MANY wrongdoings), then they should really get their stuff together. If they have any desire to go into the next generation, and centuries to come.

Peace, NRE.

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


Religious people don't debate. They preach in an attempt to shout dissention down.

reply to post by allprowolfy


It just says kings, not ALL the kings.

The verse is in reference to David, how he had help from God slaying Goliath, which caused him to become king. The author didn't know that people like Godfrey and Pope Urban II would start crusades in the name of God, killing millions. Think critically, he could've only been talking about kings within Jewish, Chaldean, and Assyrina history. Near East as a whole.

reply to post by allprowolfy


It just says kings, not ALL the kings.

The verse is in reference to David, how he had help from God slaying Goliath, which caused him to become king. The author didn't know that people like Godfrey and Pope Urban II would start crusades in the name of God, killing millions. Think critically, he could've only been talking about kings within Jewish, Chaldean, and Assyrina history. Near East as a whole.

God, the One who created everything (including the "devil", our Prime Creator, is infinitely good.) The god and devil you speak of are the entities who religious text are based upon, and while both more advanced than any member of the modern human race in every way imaginable, would fall to the ground in awe if faced with the true GOD. These are not really gods at all but extra terrestrials who came to earth and used their seed to engineer the human race. This is why Neanderthals after a brief period of co existence with modern man seemed to disappear. The breeding between extra terrestrial hybrids and the Neanderthals eventually phased them out almost completely and after the flood any who were remaining were completley eradicated as Noah and his offspring were all hybrids (hence their long life span) To ancient man, the extra terrestrials who were capable of time and space travel and in possession of advanced technology appeared to be gods. They were also much larger than humans. Among the 12 ruling gods there were two feuding brothers, Enki, the first born or the "serpent was the modern devil. Enlil the second born was the frightening old testament god who struck fear into hearts of man with his promise of eternal hell. Enki the serpent gave man the fruit of eternal life, the ability to pro create as all other hybrid species can not. Enlil wanting to have dominion over earth and using man as a tool to mine the earth was infuriated by this and as man spread across the earth vastly orchestrated the great flood, (to which enki was opposed and Noah his great great grandchild was warned in secrecy and given a chance to survive.)
Basically the biblical God and the Devil are cut from the same cloth, one has the interests of man at heart one has the interests of the earth at heart. The thing is modern man would have eventually evolved to our current level with our without interference from these extra terrestrials and so the true God, our creator, the one who created the solar system and everything in it, including extra terrestrials, and Neanderthals. Should be worshiped and served. Not the devil, nor biblical Yaweh. That is the God who has sent his pure seed, Jesus as a prophet to mankind, that is the God whose name casts out demons. That God would not be in support of either Enlils aims to cull the earths population (NWO) or Enkis allowance that man should (do what thou wilst) perpetrated by the Illuminati whom most celebrities belong. Both are causing harm directly and indirectly to the life on this planet and life in all forms is in essence a piece of the One true God.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
reply to post by NoRegretsEver

 

Religious people don't debate. They preach in an attempt to shout dissention down.

Interesting point of view considering you feel that you are qualified to comment on the validity of their beliefs without ever having practiced or studied them yourself.

Tell me, EvilSadamClone: Why is it you and 90% of the posters in this thread can espouse their beliefs regarding the nature of God and satan, yet a Christian cannot come here and do the same using scripture?

The OP uses bullet points erroneously constructed from scripture, and that's ok.... but if someone actually highlights what's written in the very book we're discussing, that's not ok?

Matthew_7:6 'Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces."

The problem is people know nothing about the Bible are the ones that never read or hear scripture and therefore don't find the truth or can properly discern concepts you learn by studying the scripture.

1 Peter 3:15
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Knock and the door shall be answered.

And all of these points for argument disappeared the moment that man achieved scientific knowledge that freed him from the binds of this ancient, simple minded way of thinking. The moments that man excavated bone structures of his prehistoric ancestors that proved that he was not merely created on a whim, but fought for survival and adapted over millions of years. Then man gained knowledge of his own DNA, the map of his genetic inheritance. By studying this map man became aware where his early relatives branched off and his earlier ones came from.

Or you can still believe that none of these achievements are true and just read a 2,000 year old book that tells you that man was created perfect and then a woman was extracted from his rib because he was lonely... I can list a thousand conundrums resulting from this line of thinking. Such as:

"If people could live forever, could they reproduce?" What happens when they overpopulate the earth?" "What happens when the food supply runs out?" "What happens when man goes into outer space and jumps out of his space ship? He cant die so then what? How does his body disobey the mere fabric of the universe?"

I could type forever at the fallacy of this logic.

Originally posted by Dynamike
And all of these points for argument disappeared the moment that man achieved scientific knowledge that freed him from the binds of this ancient, simple minded way of thinking. The moments that man excavated bone structures of his prehistoric ancestors that proved that he was not merely created on a whim, but fought for survival and adapted over millions of years. Then man gained knowledge of his own DNA, the map of his genetic inheritance. By studying this map man became aware where his early relatives branched off and his earlier ones came from.

Or you can still believe that none of these achievements are true and just read a 2,000 year old book that tells you that man was created perfect and then a woman was extracted from his rib because he was lonely... I can list a thousand conundrums resulting from this line of thinking. Such as:

"If people could live forever, could they reproduce?" What happens when they overpopulate the earth?" "What happens when the food supply runs out?" "What happens when man goes into outer space and jumps out of his space ship? He cant die so then what? How does his body disobey the mere fabric of the universe?"

I could type forever at the fallacy of this logic.

I have something to show you.

Evidence Against Evolution

Have a look at that. Should set you back for a few moments, at least.

reply to post by Infi8nity


highly unlikely or it wouldn't exist in the first place...

I dunno I will think about it, I am having a late lunch with my mom and sister...

---End Transmission

Don't forget that Satan is also the one who punishes all the bad people.

If he were evil, why is he punishing the bad people in his hell?

That being said, i don't give a lot about the Bible and what it says since i have HIGH doubts that the Bible really contains "words of god" or from Jesus for that matter. The bible was written by people and stuff was put in and left out at will. There is more bias and agenda in the bible than truth - it's an instrument for controlling people as is institutionalised religion.

Interesting points by the OP. However,,, faith always comes into the equation. And this world/universe was obviously not an accident. So, the question is who made it, what is it, and why did they make it?

We look to the unknown entity for answers. But there are so many unknown supposed entities throughout human history, how are we to know who that entity is???

Truly, just read the bible guys. Don't go into it with pre-concieved notions of reality. If you do, you'll make statements that you feel you must defend to yourself.

We do not know human history btw. We CANNOT know the mind of god. And, you have to put your pride aside. To assume you are capable of understanding is over the top prideful. We are the most complex of simple creations imo. We can only comprehend what we were created to comprehend. We can think, touch, taste, feel, hear, and smell. There are obviously countless more ways we could describe/experience this reality. But, we are limited. And we will always be limited. We will always come to the question of FAITH.

You might say that is weak. But this is a circular experience. You always come back to the teetering question, DO I BELIEVE THERE IS A GOD, OR NOT.

Once on the path to believing we were created, then it's an easy road. You will ultimately fall in line with Christian theology. Why? Because there is so much proof is why! But, I'm not going to do your homework for you. And, you'd probably spend all your time just trying to pick apart with faulty logic any of the hundreds of examples I'd throw at you.

I've been on the razor's edge many times. For those that require more in-depth explanation on the bible on a logical thinking type level, and not so much spritual, I recommend you check out Chuck Missler. You can d/l his stuff in many places, or find him on youtube. He is the best teacher of the bible I have ever seen. He is amazing. Many on this board probably already know him well from his theories on Nephilim/Angels/Aliens.

My two cents!

Religious people always think that they and only they know scripture.

reply to post by Dynamike


Yea because science and technology has done good that is what is poisoning people, the obsession with the material and complete dissociation from our true nature.

We all sit at computers in relative comfort doing nothing for the world that pretty much shows how sessile and morose the modern man has become while watch the world die.

I think I'll stay away from the Brave New World.

Matthew
And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall grow cold.

@ EvilSadam

The argument is over a element from the scripture. You've presented no information to back up your position, scriptural or otherwise, its not like your gonna be shot down just because it doesn't go along with my beliefs (how oddly Christian of me) if you believe so strongly in it you have nothing to fear, other than spitting your venom.

Originally posted by flexy123
Don't forget that Satan is also the one who punishes all the bad people.

If he were evil, why is he punishing the bad people in his hell?

That being said, i don't give a lot about the Bible and what it says since i have HIGH doubts that the Bible really contains "words of god" or from Jesus for that matter. The bible was written by people and stuff was put in and left out at will. There is more bias and agenda in the bible than truth - it's an instrument for controlling people as is institutionalised religion.

Please show me where the bible say's that satan is the entity responsible for punishing "bad people", or where it says he punishes them in hell.

FYI. Bible talks about five places:

1) Sheol

2) Bosom of Abraham (Special place in Sheol)

3) Heaven

4) Lake of fire

5) Bottomless Pit