Satan is good and God is evil?

How can I explain this... when I was into alternative spirituality theories, aka 'new age', I didn't want anything to do with the Bible. But when I finally decided to have an open mind and an open heart, I decided to seek the Bible with humility, and began to read who Jesus is in the Gospel of John. My worldview simply began to turn inside out. The Bible is not what others who are non-Christians say it is.

My advice is to simply go to the Bible and see what it says, and not buy into half-arsed opinions from people who don't know any better.. Who is Jesus according to the Bible? Not according to what people say who He is, but according to the Bible.

Originally posted by Morg234
Sigh.

The Internet is said to be a place where religion comes to die.

This website in particular should be a place where religion is cremated.

Alas, many, seeking the need to "Deny Ignorance", have continually gone against that phrase in vehemently refusing to give up their religious views. What's with that?

Get with it!

If only people would read what I had to say about "Deny Ignorance", maybe they will be closer to the truth. But it seems many people posted at the same time I did and ended up skipping what I had to say about this subject. Go look and see, page 7 and your eyes will open. DENY IGNORANCE else you don't belong here.

I am not a Christian. As such, I have been able to examine the Bible outside of the box (with an open mind), and this is what I've learned.

God is neither good nor bad. God just is what it is and is defined by its creation. Everything that happens in the universe is God being God. All good things and all bad things. There is no man on a throne in heaven with god like powers dictating events and causing supernatural things to happen. Those are called aliens. But any way, back to the point. God is the all in the all. Everything that happens is God being God.

Satan is a "fallen angel". Satan is a deceiver. Satan is what will make you believe that life isn't worth living. Good and evil are both relative. Murder is justifiable. In truth, there is no good nor evil. So that which makes us believe in our own egotistical relative interpretations and lead us to call them absolute is what is bad about the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

reply to post by EvilSadamClone


I have just as much right to share my point of view as the next person,

I rebuked you with scripture which is what the entire premise of the thread is about.

Why you mad?

Originally posted by CaptainNemo

Originally posted by Cuervo

Originally posted by CaptainNemo
Well, one can argue, that had not the serpent [Disassociation with Satan] lied to Eve, all the plagues, deaths, and sorrow attributed to God would have never happened.

But the serpent didn't lie. In fact, the serpent was the only one who told them the truth. He told her that they would gain knowledge. God told them they would die. After they ate of it, they gained knowledge, God got scared, and they didn't die.

The serpent said they would be like gods. What did god say about it after they ate it? In Genesis 3:22, he said "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

So who lied?

Where are you getting that from?

'And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:' - Genesis 3:4

God said they would die, but he didn't say when. Adam and Eve eventually died.

The serpent lied/..

"But he didn't say when". Hahah! So if I said "if you eat that cookie, you will surely die" and you die decades later, I'm right?!

They were obviously talking about the consuming of it killing them, which it "surely" did not. The only reason they eventually died was because God was nervous of their power and did not let them eat of the immortality tree.

If you were to read the whole account with an unbiased mind and only looked at the factual statements, you would conclude:

1. God said the fruit would kill them
2. Serpent said the fruit would give them knowledge
3. They ate the fruit
4. They gained knowledge
5. They were not killed
6. God got scared and made their lives worse

If this were a children's book that you had no vested interest in, this would be the only conclusion that could be logically made.

reply to post by Infi8nity


"Sympathy for the Devil"

I refer to the above as psychological condition that exists today, where people will often vilify honest people and follow liars (the entertainment industry for example).

This book goes into much more detail on the subject the OP has posted on:

books.google.co.uk...'s%20tragedy&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q&f=false

In theory, if God is truly what most organized religions believe to be, God would be both good and bad, man and woman, and satan would be God's alter ego. The one that comes out when he gets drunk and decides to mess around, but then blames it on "the devil"

If God is truly all knowing, all powerful, and has the ability to be the creator of universes, would it not stand to reason that there would be no such force that above his control?

And, wouldnt it also mean that when that bus full of kids goes sliding off that icy mountain road, plummeting to their deaths, that he foresaw the event, decided to do nothing, or created the event and watched with impunity?

Originally posted by old_god
reply to post by Infi8nity

 

"Sympathy for the Devil"

I refer to the above as psychological condition that exists today, where people will often vilify honest people and follow liars (the entertainment industry for example).

I tend to agree, look how many people made an uproar over Tim Tebow, villifying a man just because he proudly expresses his faith, values, and his ability to live a sober, moral life?

But then you have extremely hedonistic, decadent, often times criminally convicted athletes, and entertainment stars, and its become the societal norm?

reply to post by EnigmaticDill


You're not discussing, you're preaching. If you want to discuss, discuss, don't preach. There is a difference. I don't appreciate people telling me that I have to believe in God because they say so, and your preaching is doing exactly that.

And you haven't rebuked me or convinced me of anything other than you're an asshole.

Worship the Sun! It gives us warmth, vitamins, food, light,etc.etc. AND the best part that the other GODS don't have. You can actually see it! Gives it more credibility.

Ahh the heck with it let George tell you.

Not sure if this has been mentioned before but if you read the 12th planet which includes some insight into the origins of the Old Testament which traces back to older civilizations like Sumer you might find some interesting conclusions opposite of what we are taught.

One thing I do know is that the history of Christianity particularly of the early "Catholics" and Popes describe a religion far from the religion that is painted to us today. This is why some born agains carry around just the New Testament and not the complete bible. It seems to me like they want to forget the origins of their beliefs because it runs pretty much counter to what they are taught today..

Also another thing that I have noticed is that most Christians that actually study theology in universities and trace back it's history end up not practicing the religion afterwards. Similar to Scientology in which the knowledge at the upper end is quite different from the bottom end (the average practitioner). It is then when the realization of the symbolic, allegorical meaning is known and literal translation is pushed aside.

Originally posted by KJV1611
reply to post by Infi8nity

 

You have the choice to worship whoever you like fool (pity). But be warned, you better be right....because if you are wrong, you are in for a rude awakening.

And here in lies the problem with fearmongering faiths....do as i say or "you are in for a rude awakening."

More inhumane acts have been commited by faiths stating do as god says or you'll pay then any other disaster combined...and yet this deity is "all loving"

I dunno about the rest of you, but if everything that has occured in human history up till now is supposed to be some big learning experience...then god can take his 2000+ year ethics lesson and shove it up his holy a$$.

Food for thought OP,,,thanks S&F

I have a question for those of religion

If God is our father, wouldnt he at some point want us to stand on our own two feet, as he (should have) taught us to do and stop depending on him, and become Gods ourselves (I as a father would)

What father wants worship? A "thanks dad", a phone call every now and again, a steak,,,yeah. But sacrifice,worship and unbridled loyalty? That's not a dad, that's a tyrant.

I can't speak for you, but I stopped depending on my father (God) and blaming others (mainly the Devil) for my life a long time ago

reply to post by EvilSadamClone


Nobody's forcing you into anything, even the Bible doesn't force you into believing. It tells you a story, of the human condition and truth of the nature of the reality we face. To provide you convincing proof, of the effectual working.

The Bible is a testimony and their witness to the things of the Bible which is what makes it what it is.

You can pass judgment on what I say if you want but its to your benefit. I don't think that you considering that maybe there are people out there that legitimately are for God and the Lord through their experiences, I know what I experienced, which is why I know that there are demons and evil spirits.

I know who sits at the right hand of God.


www.youtube.com...

reply to post by EnigmaticDill


Which is a sheer utter lie.

If you don't believe you are sent to hell for all eternity to be burned and tortured.

All this demonstrates is the disconnect the followers have about God.

Because it's no different than a thug coming into a person's home and telling you, who gets shot first, your wife or your children and "letting" you choose which one gets shot first.

None what so ever.

If you don't believe you will be punished.

And if you are not a Christian the Christians will punish you through any dirty rotten trick they can think, such as in this guys case calling me a demon that has to be rebuked, but usually through social ostracization or other means of coercion.

Yeah. There's a real choice there. Either believe or be punished. And that's how people are forced to believe.

I have no interest in discussing things with you after the way you treated me.

You are no real Christian either, and you do not know who sits at the right hand of God.

The only being who can know that is God, if he truly exists.

As far as other experiences go, these are all of them in one list:

www.godlessgeeks.com...

En.lil/Yahweh is a Elohim. Not God. Lord of the Israelites. En.ki/E.A./Ptah/Posidon is the Serpent in the garden(E.den). Teacher of mankind, Elohim of the Canaanites. The El that spoke to Noah about the Biblical Flood. There fued is as old as recorded history. En.ki had control of Africa first. But he had difficulties extracting gold for the Anunnaki. So his brother Yahweh was given dominion over upper Africa (E.den). Enki (lord earth) then became E.a (He whose house is water). He was given dominion over the lower world, or Southern Africa. E.a created man from clay and blood. That is why Yahweh had to take the adam and place him in the garden. He wasn't his to begin with.

reply to post by EvilSadamClone


You've given in to the New Age lies.

Satan is the accuser.

I have no agenda to coerce you into other than the fact that your accepting a free gift, Im not pursuing it any farther then given you sound scriptural rebuttals to your comments.

Your the one putting a face on God because of the ways of the world I have no control over that do I?

reply to post by EnigmaticDill


Then get out of my face. I don't want to hear it from you. All you're doing is harassing me and are trying to use your Christians tolerance to shut me down.

IMO Monotheistic religions are used as a form of mind control to prevent people from being aware of others possibilities in regards to spirituality. It is based on faith and belief rather than experience. Religion is disassociative rather than interactive, which means people give their power away, that's why there is such emphasis on worship rather than understanding and relationships. It also gives power to priesthood; the gatekeepers and middle men.

Science is the other flip side of the coin. Science as a tool is one of the greatest human accomplishments, but let’s not fool ourselves into believing that they do not have their own share followers and worshipers which can rival fundamental believers of religion in their fanatical-ism.

reply to post by Chewingonmushrooms


Obviously! When you start applying things that can be observed about God's universe to the book that's supposed to be about him, it makes no sense! Why would the universe contradict the book if the book were really his word? It can't be his word. Although like anything else in life, God is in there anyways as he is in everything that is connected to humans and probably other species in the universe as well.