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Satan is good and God is evil?

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posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 12:12 PM
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"God kills the entire populations of Soddom and Gammorah (again, including women, children and infants) for practicing certain sexual techniques."

A lot of this sounds like the arguments of the Gnostics of old. One thing to remember is that to fully accept their arguments you would have to renounce the world of matter. They were more extreme about that idea than the Buddhists. Always remember that Store Front arguments mask a deeper belief structure, with the Gnostics as much as the organized religions. Simplistic arguments about religion from atheists (or Gnostics) are the mirror opposite of those from Fundamentalists, the same intolerance.

One thing I must correct as a technical point. The above quoted is an incorrect statement. The Hebrew Bible does not say that God killed Sodom because of homosexuality. Here is the reason the Bible states that God killed Sodom:

49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom: pride, fulness of bread, and careless ease was in her and in her daughters; neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.(Ezekiel 16:49)

Sodom was never gay. Their sexuality was exploitation, and they were chastised for exploitation of the oppressed just like America has been in the past few years. In a way, Sodom was probably a lot like the modern right-wing, in the west and in the Middle East, in that Sodom was probably extremely anti-gay while practicing exploitative homosexual and heterosexual sex. I doubt that Sodom was gay in the way we think of the term today. A lot of conservatives think that Sodom was destroyed for being gay when they do not realize that they themselves practice the sin of Sodom regularly, and vote for Sodom candidates!

As for religion, I believe that my contact with God is private. God may show each person another vision. To me, He has shown a lot. (Gender pronoun linguistic only) I probably have a bit of Native American ancestry and this is the respect that they showed each person's spiritual Vision. When the Great Spirit came to someone, there was respect for their Vision and not persecution (except maybe among the "civilized" Aztecs or Incas). When the Christians and Atheists came here they brought a tradition of intolerance not known to the Turtle Continent before. It was Indians who taught the white man religious freedom, not the other way around.




posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 12:13 PM
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God of the Old Testament was a bit harsh, though he mellowed in the New Testament.... well except when he let his only son get tortured to death... my suggestion is don't worship either and instead just be someone who wishes none harm and does the 'right' thing as much as possible... even if there's no heaven or hell, the consequences on earth will be much more pleasant.



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 12:13 PM
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reply to post by lucifuge
 


2 Peter 1:16
For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 12:14 PM
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reply to post by EnigmaticDill
 


You may win this little fight, but I'll be laughing my ass off when I see you in hell with me. If there is a hell. You think you're doing good works, but all you're really doing is showing your Christian intolerance and singling me out.

You're a real piece of work.

Now get out of my face.



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 12:16 PM
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Have anyone ever considered the possibility that the Bible was re-written to control the masses of our civilization by TPTB? I mean think about it, these guys are smart and know how us humans think psychology against one another when you divide the population between "Believers and non-believers".

All I see in this forum are people aruging for their belief or asking to prove that Satan or God doesn't exist. We are humans and humans are predictable because we all need proof in order to move on and TPTB knew we would continue to argue wiith eachother back and forth not being able to get nowhere. What you guys are doing right now is the "distraction" that TPTB planned for so everyone would stay ignorant and not look their way for what they are doing to the world. We as humans are losing rights to these Goverments every minute that passes by. Suffice to say, it's working in their favor.
All I'm saying is DENY IGNORANCE, be opened minded because it's the only way you will ever be closer to the truth.

Do I believe in the Bible? Yes I do, but I do believe it was re-written many times to benifit TPTB. There are truths in the Bible and I do believe in God. I'm not religious nor do I believe you have to go to Chruch everyday to be close to God because it is only through yourself, where you will be able to find God. Religion is NOT needed in this world because it only causes more violence than it really should. Where do you think Church money goes? Towards the Goverment because they know the people who visits Church everyday Sunday would be Ignorant to their doings.

Stop fighting and Deny ignorance please. It's the only way you will be able to find the answers you seek for. I hope you all will wake up from this and realize what's really going on.



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 12:17 PM
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reply to post by EvilSadamClone
 


At the very least I'll stand up for whats right,

Ephesians 2:9

For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast.



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 12:17 PM
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Those people who say Satan is better are the ones who do not believe in the afterlife. Reason? God has said that this world is a test and you will be promised a better life if you do good here. This is why when bad things happen here people think that God is doing bad things, but it is all a test of your faith and if you say that Satan is better, guess what you failed the test.



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 12:18 PM
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This subject is at the cores of my beliefs... but like all things human.... what God wants is to control and subjugate us... No more than a lord does his peasant in mid-evil Europe.

I believe Satan was like the Renaissance in which he gave us something we always wanted... Freedom of Choice...

may seem like non-sense to most of the indoctrinated religion community, but if you used your common sense, intelligence and reason, there is only that conclusion...

If you believe a promise of a better life in an afterlife is more important than this the freedom to choose in this life... then you've already missed the point of why your here.
edit on 4/2/2012 by FoxStriker because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by CaptainNemo
Well, one can argue, that had not the serpent [Disassociation with Satan] lied to Eve, all the plagues, deaths, and sorrow attributed to God would have never happened.


But the serpent didn't lie. In fact, the serpent was the only one who told them the truth. He told her that they would gain knowledge. God told them they would die. After they ate of it, they gained knowledge, God got scared, and they didn't die.

The serpent said they would be like gods. What did god say about it after they ate it? In Genesis 3:22, he said "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

So who lied?



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 12:20 PM
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Let me synopsize my main point, and get off this CO-INTEL-POST thread because I have better things to discuss. The narrative of the destruction of Sodom was not because Sodom was gay. Sodom was not gay. They were probably anti-gay in their formal ideology while practicing a lot of hypocrisy, much like the Catholic Church and the Middle East. Sodom was exploitative:

49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom: pride, fulness of bread, and careless ease was in her and in her daughters; neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. (Ezekiel 16:49)

That was the reason they were destroyed. No wonder few religious conservatives get in to the real reason for the destruction of Sodom, namely exploitation and callousness.

See you.



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 12:21 PM
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reply to post by Infi8nity
 


Glad you brought this up, OP. I've also thought about this awhile and weighed all the evidence that has come to me to this point in my life. I've come to these conclusions:

* The OT attributes the name of god to many beings who have used the moniker to their own ends. In essence, there are more than one entity claiming to be god in the OT. Genesis' garden of eden event was an experiment to discover if the newly GMO, man, could evolve to higher consciousness. The answer was yes. "Indeed, man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil." Satan, could easily have been god trying to tempt us to see if we would bite on his plan (no pun intended) which we did, or adam and eve did as representatives of our human race. Still, god and satan could have been adversarial entities that vied for control of the directorship, one an enslaver and one an enligtener.

* I find it interesting that adam and eve were tossed out of the garden of eden and that it was then protected and guarded by angels and weaponry to forbid their re-entry, as if they could have forced their way back in and surprise an all knowing god. More likely, the genesis story either took place at a special place on earth with a stargate back to another realm or took place on another planet/plane of a higher dimensional vibration which had a stargate portal to earth, a lower dimensional vibrating plane/planet. Hence guarding the entryway/stargate back in was essential to those beings who claimed to be god to prevent adam, eve and other earthling humans from returning and gaining access to it.

* lastly, some responders to this thread are mixing up the OT for the NT. Jesus was not in the OT that we can prove. His appearance in the NT was a redeeming moment for mankind, proving to the other "gods" that humans could indeed be salvaged and worthy of galactic acceptance by a mere blend of god and human dna. That is what jesus proved and his words of love, unity, and forgiveness created the lighted way by which man could evolve to enlightened living, success, and galactic acceptance. And here is where the fight remains: between the destructive forces of darkness, the current rulers of this planet, the OT gods and those of light, the true healers and creators who want to free us, jesus and his crew.




posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 12:22 PM
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Originally posted by ofhumandescent
Love and kindness, mercy and forgiveness are good.

Hate and cruelity, kicking someone when they are down vs helping them up and holding onto past grudges is bad.

We are all like raindrops and "god" is the ocean.

This isn't "new age stuff" the sages and enlightened ones have been saying this for a very long time.

Description of video:


THE LAW OF ONE
We are all one.
When one is harmed, all are harmed.
When one is helped, all are healed.
Therefore, in the name of who I AM,
and I am one with all;
I ask that ONLY THAT WHICH IS THE HIGHEST GOOD OF ALL
CONCERNED happen here and now, and through all time and space.
I give thanks that this is done.
SO BE IT!


That is 100% new age stuff, in fact, that is almost at the core of the new age. I don't know why you're trying to defend something that people like David Wilcock spews out to be non-new age material.

The core of the beliefs of new agers, 2012'ers, occultists, channelers, gurus, mystics, gnostics, freemasons, satanists, astrologers, mayans, and so on.. is Luciferianism philosophy. And that is at the core of the New World Order. It's all about evolution of man with the help of 'higher entities', using technology and 'spiritual evolution' to make man into god-man.

To the person that has Biblical knowledge and understanding, all this is laughable, because we can see right through the veil of lies, delusions and deception. The serpent in the Garden of Eden told Eve that "ye shall be as gods", and all these years later, people are still falling for the lie.



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by FoxStriker
 


God wants you to live a fruitful and happy life not to be subject to the deception of the devil,


Galatians 5

Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?

This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.

A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 12:25 PM
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Originally posted by Cuervo

Originally posted by CaptainNemo
Well, one can argue, that had not the serpent [Disassociation with Satan] lied to Eve, all the plagues, deaths, and sorrow attributed to God would have never happened.


But the serpent didn't lie. In fact, the serpent was the only one who told them the truth. He told her that they would gain knowledge. God told them they would die. After they ate of it, they gained knowledge, God got scared, and they didn't die.

The serpent said they would be like gods. What did god say about it after they ate it? In Genesis 3:22, he said "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

So who lied?


Where are you getting that from?


'And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:' - Genesis 3:4

God said they would die, but he didn't say when. Adam and Eve eventually died.

The serpent lied/..



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 12:26 PM
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I would say that God is a concept, and Satan is a lack of concept.
When you have a lack of concepts you don't have beliefs. When you lack beliefs theres nothing for you to defend. Therefore you will have no enemies. And peace comes.



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 12:26 PM
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Stop preaching.



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 12:26 PM
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Originally posted by Alxandro
All the deaths attributed to God most likely occurred to keep this from happening.
Tough love!


Wow.

"Most likely", huh? Can you share your math with on this one? How is it that you specifically calculate a probability of < than .5 for that? How many degrees of confidence was used? Is there an error of margin on the data points being plotted?

In reality, the "most likely" situation with the greatest ACTUAL probability is that both "god" and "satan" are just make-believe given the fact that to date there is no scientifically repeatable experiments, measurements, or observations which can be used to verify their existence.

Don't get me wrong...I am BIG believer in the Constitution and I feel you have a right to believe whatever you want and also to voice your beliefs whenever and wherever you want. I'm not trying to change your mind on the subject of the existence of God/Satan.

It's really more about how we as a society we have strayed pretty far from the REAL definitions of words like "probably", "most likely", "in all likelihood", etc. We have developed a tendency to often use the word "probably" to support our opinions in stark contrast to the observable evidence.

For example, take a statement like "Presidential elections in the United States are probably/most likely/in all likelihood the most fair, unbiased, and ethically run elections on Earth". It sounds good. Hell..it even sounds plausible given the whole tradition of a democratically inspired republican form of representation and government that we have in this country.

However, in reality we have had dead people "voting" in local, state and federal elections since time immemorial, the phrase "Vote early and vote often" was coined in the 1800's, and every single Presidential electrion of the last 12 years has been marred by some sort of controversy as to whether the President is even legitimate. There is simply no evidence which would suggest that this is undeniably the case. At best, we have a situation where we are really no better or worse than any other democratically inspired republican form of government. At worst, the Scandinavian countries put us to shame, as well as Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and a goodly sized chunk of South America.

Just because we believe or think a certain way doesn't mean it is at all "probable".



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 12:26 PM
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That was a wicked fun read... thanks and great points. S&F



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 12:28 PM
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Sigh.

The Internet is said to be a place where religion comes to die.

This website in particular should be a place where religion is cremated.

Alas, many, seeking the need to "Deny Ignorance", have continually gone against that phrase in vehemently refusing to give up their religious views. What's with that?

Get with it!



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 12:29 PM
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reply to post by FoxStriker
 


God doesn't need a book for control. He created all that you know and can control you via that means. If anyone has a strong presence that has snuck into the bible, it's satan. Satan is the kind of guy that would use a book to trick you into foresaking that which is good. A quick look at the bloody history of christians supports that idea!



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