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Satan is good and God is evil?

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posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 01:41 PM
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I will say this I do believe that at some point in the original story of Adam and Eve that there was a separation in those of the human species, that is why there are more then one type of person and their thoughts on the same book.

Why do some believe so adamantly and others not? How can something so clear to one person be so unclear to another happen?

Most people that are willing to speak against religion or the bible, have at some point been involved with religion, read the book, or were raised in strict religious households. People that are not convinced, and have been in religion at some point have more to lose when they speak out, either by shunning, or those in their surroundings believing that they are evil, possessed, etc,.

Those who believe think that this is an easy transition, it it not. When it doesn't feel right... it just doesn't. Its hard for those that are still sometimes subconsciously afraid of what they were taught, and not what they feel.

Peace, NRE.




posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 01:49 PM
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reply to post by NoRegretsEver
 


A person who is an unbeliever have no room to take into account people that have no concept of religion that end up having experiences , are convicted, and realize the truth, and how could someone who denied the bible themselves would ever believe. Thats exactly how God works. Doesn't it make practical sense to utilize someone that has a legitimate understanding and seeking to find the truth? Those are the only ones who will, the ones that will preach the gospel.

Look at Paul.



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 01:50 PM
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My problem lies with the logic that if there is such thing as an ultimate creator (which I believe there is) then that must mean that the bible is true and the way to prove it is by quoting the bible. There are thousands of different belief systems, the only thing that makes the Bible different is that they forced all other cultures within their radius of influence by sword to convert. Same goes with Islam (today's modern day version of mid evil Christianity) and Judaism (the root).

If someone asks me if I believe in God I say no. Why? Because that word is trademarked to mean the Judeo-Christian-Islamic creator. If someone asked if there is such thing as a creator/source or any other term describing something with such power to create the cosmos (and infinite parallel universes and dimensions) I would say yes. Then the discussion would most likely turn into whether "the creator" was personal or impersonal which I honestly have no clue.

That being said, my thoughts are no different from any belief system because there is no way possible that I can prove it. So my beef isn't that people believe what they believe but rather that the human species for whatever reason has chosen to consolidate all beliefs into that root belief form I spoke of earlier. It's a monopoly and limits possibilities.

It's like McDonalds bombed all other mama and papa diners and fast food joints, or bought them out and when a new child enters into this world and has a burger they believe McDonalds burger is the only way to make a burger, and the only way a burger could possibly taste.

edit on 2-4-2012 by Chewingonmushrooms because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-4-2012 by Chewingonmushrooms because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 01:52 PM
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God is omnibenevolent, God is the Almighty Creator.

Satan is a peeon, a created little being, a "force" among humans but a mere pissant to God.

OP should check yourself when accusing the Most High of being evil...



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by CaptainNemo
reply to post by allprowolfy
 


It just says kings, not ALL the kings.

The verse is in reference to David, how he had help from God slaying Goliath, which caused him to become king. The author didn't know that people like Godfrey and Pope Urban II would start crusades in the name of God, killing millions. Think critically, he could've only been talking about kings within Jewish, Chaldean, and Assyrina history. Near East as a whole.


I see that you have selective reading habits, no big deal, but for me, you cannot say that there is just one god in the very same sentence AS:It just says kings, not ALL the kings.

Bit ironic and counterintuitive, is it not



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 01:56 PM
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Originally posted by Iason321
God is omnibenevolent, God is the Almighty Creator.

Satan is a peeon, a created little being, a "force" among humans but a mere pissant to God.

OP should check yourself when accusing the Most High of being evil...


So why create a peon being, which god knows will become his rival which he will battle for souls since he knows the future? And if you say free will of his servants why punish his servants when they use the free will that he gave them in a way which he doesn't want them to (which isn't really free will)?

Not even the most vile human being will condem billions upon billions of souls throughout history to a devil that he made himself because of the imperfections in the hearts of the men he created. That's not tough love that's true evil. Do you know the meaning of omnibenevolent?


edit on 2-4-2012 by Chewingonmushrooms because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 01:57 PM
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I know when I was I guess you would call agnostic, I remember several times in my earlier years saying the Bible was just stories, but I never attacked anyone for their belief you should question things. But never assume you know all the answers.

There is the difference between good and evil. One seeks to break free the other seeks control.



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 02:03 PM
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reply to post by Chewingonmushrooms
 


You are destroyed through your own sin, the deception is that you continually sin until your death never coming to repentance because of lack of faith in Jesus being the only salvation of your soul.

The only battle for souls is the one in which those who fall give themselves to do wickedness. The scripture shows that God is working through his divine creation.


Ecclesiastes 3:21
Who knows the spirit of man that goes upward, and the spirit of the beast that goes downward to the earth?


Ecclesiastes 8:8
There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war; neither shall wickedness deliver those that are given to it.



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 02:05 PM
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reply to post by DeadSeraph
 


Read Dante's devine comedy if you want to learn about hell and satan. The bible has very little info on the idea.



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 02:12 PM
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reply to post by Evolutionsend
 


Dantes Hell makes for a good sci fi read or sci fi movie maybe.

It has 0 basis in reality though.

The Bibles descriptions of the abode of the dead is much more accurate and realistic.



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 02:13 PM
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The history left out of the bible leaves room for amazing stories to be told. As the OP put out his possible version, could you imagine a movie about that? Satan the Good Guy fighting for our freedom?

But really. We can't know the reason or answer. It doesn't make sense to begin with. Why would Lucifer, an ancient being of immense knowledge power and beauty, defy the almighty god??? Why would he do something so erratic and stupid?
It leads you to believe one of two things:

1) He knows something/somethings we don't. He believes he has a hand to play.
or
2) As is alluded in the Bible, he doesn't want Man to reach the heights prophesied to rule the universe. Hence rivaling the Angels. (Which he unwittingly began the process of in trying to prevent).

Regardless. It's all pointless. The fact that we don't know, and will never know, means this whole debate is pointless. It's only good for conjecture. If you are truly interested in the topic, like I said before, Chuck Missler really goes into depth on this subject.



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by EnigmaticDill
 


Man. Those are some powerful words! I love studying that stuff. Used to be so boring. Now, it's a passion.



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by EnigmaticDill
reply to post by Chewingonmushrooms
 


You are destroyed through your own sin

Which was made possible by the God that created you. Why create a being capable of sin when he would wish that they not sin?,

the deception is that you continually sin until your death never coming to repentance because of lack of faith in Jesus being the only salvation of your soul.

What about people that lived before Jesus? Jesus came 2000 years ago. According to the bible man and the earth was created 6000 years ago (lets not talk about science here), so what about those that lived before Jesus? And what about those in recent times that never had had contact with Christianity and know not about Jesus?

The only battle for souls is the one in which those who fall give themselves to do wickedness.

Wickness which exists because God made it possible for wickness to exist. And why is there a "battle" is God if Omipotent?

The scripture shows that God is working through his divine creation.

Wouldn't all of God's creations be considered divine? And if not, why would he pick and choose which are and which aren't?



My questions are in red. Listen I am not trying to stroke my ego or anything, I am actually quite tolerant of religious beliefs, but the person that I responded to originally has exactly the type of mentality that makes things like the inquisitions and crusades possible. I do not mean to offend you, you religion is for you to question and for you to question alone.
edit on 2-4-2012 by Chewingonmushrooms because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-4-2012 by Chewingonmushrooms because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-4-2012 by Chewingonmushrooms because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 02:34 PM
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If your creation is given free will clearly its evident that the qualities of what makes something evil or wicked are things that are possibilities since the creation is infinite, the only way that your going to gain anything meaningful or legitimate is if the same conclusion is reached by your own testimony or admission since the quality of free will is agreed upon that is how and why we have to come to the full knowledge of God. Your are admitting that the qualities of what makes God, God is above all righteous and beyond your ability to comprehend because you see your fragility and small part in a vast living and active existence (why cause and effect is so perfect). That by nothing short of a miracle arguably even by the most recognized scientific minds in history admittedly known nothing about other than poking around the visible and removing any of the invisible qualities that make it all possible.


The only limitations we have in understanding is preconceptions.

I wasn't referring to just man by the way.



edit on 2-4-2012 by EnigmaticDill because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by EnigmaticDill
If your creation is given free will clearly its evident that the qualities of what makes something evil or wicked are things that are possibilities since the creation is infinite, the only way that your going to gain anything meaningful or legitimate is if the same conclusion is reached by your own testimony or admission since the quality of free will is agreed upon that is how and why we have to come to the full knowledge of God. Your are admitting that the qualities of what makes God, God is above all righteous and beyond your ability to comprehend because you see your fragility and small part in a vast living and active existence (why cause and effect is so perfect). That by nothing short of a miracle arguably even by the most recognized scientific minds in history admittedly known nothing about other than poking around the visible and removing any of the invisible qualities that make it all possible.


The only limitations we have in understanding is preconceptions.

I wasn't referring to just man by the way.



edit on 2-4-2012 by EnigmaticDill because: (no reason given)


I appreciate your honesty and sincere attempt at explaining why you believe what you believe. At least it seems you have put some thought into it, which unfortunately I cannot say the same for most. One thing I am sure we can both agree on (and which you alluded to) is that as human beings we cannot possibly know all the answers and are limited in our abilities and perceptions. The arrogance of man is one in which it is believed that all answers are already known.



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by A-Dub
But ive thought about this before, if this satan character is such a grand deceiver, what better way to trick people into following you then to make yourself look like the good guy? Making heaven/hell/god/satan vice-versa. I mean, if you think about it "god" sounds like one cruel SOB whos never done anything good for anyone.


That sounds about right.

To me, Jehovah/Yahweh is the devil. He is the grand deceiver and is not the real universal God that Jesus spoke of.



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 02:55 PM
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'Christian: A good-natured, simple fellow; a true lamb of the fold, who, in the innocence of his heart, persuades himself that he firmly believes unbelievable things that his priests have told him to believe, especially those he cannot even imagine. Consequently, he is convinced that three x's make fifteen, that God was made man, that he was hanged and rose to life again, that priests cannot lie, and that all who do not believe in priests will be damned without remission."
-- Voltair



What! Have you no monks to teach, to dispute, to govern, to intrigue and to burn people who do not agree with them?
-- Voltaire



Let us therefore reject all superstition in order to become more human; but in speaking against fanaticism, let us not imitate the fanatics: they are sick men in delirium who want to chastise their doctors. Let us assuage their ills, and never embitter them, and let us pour drop by drop into their souls the divine balm of toleration, which they would reject with horror if it were offered to them all at once.


edit on 2-4-2012 by rom12345 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 03:07 PM
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reply to post by rom12345
 


Men such as Voltaire are their own vice, they cant see past there own arrogance in that anybody knows something they don't. How bothersome, here's idea maybe live your life to find what your looking for and you might just find it? How quaint that you have to put in any effort into living.

Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;


edit on 2-4-2012 by EnigmaticDill because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 03:12 PM
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reply to post by EnigmaticDill
 


Old timothy is also a bit of plank.
At least Voltaire has a good sense of humor and is quite good with the pen.


edit on 2-4-2012 by rom12345 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 03:15 PM
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Originally posted by allprowolfy

Originally posted by CaptainNemo
reply to post by allprowolfy
 


It just says kings, not ALL the kings.

The verse is in reference to David, how he had help from God slaying Goliath, which caused him to become king. The author didn't know that people like Godfrey and Pope Urban II would start crusades in the name of God, killing millions. Think critically, he could've only been talking about kings within Jewish, Chaldean, and Assyrina history. Near East as a whole.


I see that you have selective reading habits, no big deal, but for me, you cannot say that there is just one god in the very same sentence AS:It just says kings, not ALL the kings.

Bit ironic and counterintuitive, is it not


Yes, actually I can. Doctrine isn't as mysterious as you're making it out to be. Of course nobody can read the mind of the author, but judging on the context, the nature of the Bible, and the authors own words, one can certainly say that this is most likely a reference to the biblical King David. People go to school for this, I currently go to school for this. You're just guessing.



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