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Members of ATS, put up or shut up.

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posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 01:35 PM
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Hello, I have been a member of ATS on two different accounts for about a year now. In my time I have seen many a member complain about the American government, and how it is corrupt and needs to be fought. Yet when somebody actually tries to put forward a new idea they are automatically blasted and called crazy, or an idealist, or an NWO member, etc.

In response I must say, if you don't like it do something about it. In other words put up an idea, or shut up. As a whole if a good idea is put forward we could regain our rights, and put the power back where it belongs. I'm tired of all of you complainers whining and moaning about corruption and greed, then when somebody puts forward an idea they are put down.

Is this an way to solve a problem by whining behind your computer screens, then when somebody has the balls to put up a new idea you automatically dismiss it. This to me does not sound like courage, but rather like cowardice, and apathy rapped in a thin veneer of bravado.

I have read older members posts about how in the old days it was so much better, but is it possible this is only true because your older minds have become calcified and set in your ways and beliefs.

If this is what ATS truly is, a bunch of cowards then I will leave this site forever. It sickens me to see so many great minds, that should be capable of understanding, civility, and intelligence, going to waste bickering over petty and asinine subjects, rather than creating fresh new ideas.
edit on 1-4-2012 by KwisatzHaderach because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 01:42 PM
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I will do my part if it doesn't involve a protest of holding signs, chanting, and playing the drums in parks for months. That's all OWS was really, sitting around waiting for the corporate criminals to turn themselves in. Useless and a waste of time and large numbers who could implement change.

If someone, or many someones, can organize large groups of people to assemble and with evidence of crimes in hand, go out and arrest the corporate criminals ruining these countries. Physically arrest and detain these white collar criminals, have common law trials by the people, not bought off judges, and send a message that we will not take it anymore!

Do that and I will get off my armchair and do my part, do it not, and nothing will change.

An example:



edit on 1-4-2012 by JibbyJedi because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 01:48 PM
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reply to post by JibbyJedi
 


Exactly that is what we need to do create a civilian force, have physical evidence of the crimes committed and then put them on trial. Yet so many people when asked even to put forward a modicum of effort, shrug their shoulders and say they are to busy, or it's not that important.
I would love to see their reaction when it's to late, but I will be to busy fighting.



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 01:49 PM
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reply to post by JibbyJedi
 


corporate criminals only ? How nice of you.



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 01:57 PM
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reply to post by NullVoid
 


no but i think the point he is trying to make is that these hippie kids with their drums and protests aren't going to do much in the way of paving the road for change. their hearts are in the right places but their hind ends, different story!



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by KwisatzHaderach
 


Ahhh...you do realize change takes time...right. Now, your *whole year* of being a member here, I guess, makes you an expert on change.

What have you done to implement social change. Or, are you waiting for someone else to build a float for you to jump on.

You sound young and impatient. Do you exercise your right to vote. Are you an instant pudding kind of guy.

Just some things to ponder while you rile at the rest of us....

Des



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 02:06 PM
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Originally posted by NullVoid
reply to post by JibbyJedi
 


corporate criminals only ? How nice of you.


We already have a system for common criminals. We don't have one for those in positions of power, no accountability, no consequences for their lies and lawlessness, they have nothing to fear when they own the police forces.

Basic math states that we outnumber the police by large margins. If police wish to protect criminals, then the people have a green light to use their over powering numbers to do their duty to their countries and physically arrest these top of the pyramid criminals.



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 02:07 PM
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reply to post by Destinyone
 


I have attempted to write a new political theory, and have passed it out among people around me, and have released it on this site it was instantly dismissed. I also regulary train in martial combat with others to prepare them and myself, for the coming revolution. Yes I do vote and in every election. Judge not those who you do not know.



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 02:09 PM
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Voting is useless. I voted for Reagan and in every election since. I will do a write in vote for Ron Paul in this election, but it is honestly a waste of time. Our votes do not matter. Politicians on "both sides" have been bought. Corporations rule this nation. I see no solutions that involve the ballot box. A truly massive sit in with everybody staying home for months is the only non-violent possibility I see.



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 02:20 PM
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reply to post by DarthMuerte
 


You are one of the people I speak of. In the many threads I have seen you in you put forward no real ideas, you put forward sugar coated words of sweetness with no true substance or ideas for betterment. You merely complain and moan and when someone puts forward an idea you automatically shut it down as impossible.



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by KwisatzHaderach
reply to post by DarthMuerte
 


You are one of the people I speak of. In the many threads I have seen you in you put forward no real ideas, you put forward sugar coated words of sweetness with no true substance or ideas for betterment. You merely complain and moan and when someone puts forward an idea you automatically shut it down as impossible.
I have ideas for change. I have mentioned them multiple times.
First, we must water the tree of liberty. It is past time.
Second we must return the federal government to strictly constitutional governance. The feds have exceeded their powers as enumerated in the constitution and need to be reigned in.
Third, END the FED! End all foreign aid. Demand repayment of all loans given under the Marshall Plan.
Fourth, lawyers should not be in congress making laws. It is a major conflict of interest and it has lead to the unnecessary complication of our legal system.
Fifth, eliminate the income tax. It punishes work and encourages non-work
Sixth, end the welfare state and all entitlement programs at the federal level. Should the several states individually decide that one or more of them desire a welfare state, it is their right(ie the individual state) to institute it. Those citizens who disagree can then move to states that have laws matching their views.

I could write an entire manifesto, but I have included the ones I think I speak out on most of the time.



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 02:42 PM
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reply to post by KwisatzHaderach
 



Originally posted by KwisatzHaderach
... Is this an way to solve a problem by whining behind your computer screens...


Most change requires persistence and education.

There's nothing wrong with doing that from behind a computer screen.



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 02:44 PM
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Have you considered the possibility that maybe the ideas that get shot down need to be shot down?

Maybe even yours?

Have you considered that one way to test an idea is to see how many holes can be shot through it?

Have you considered that there are members on here who have seen and experienced things you can't yet fathom?

Be careful how you judge people you know nothing about over a forum. We're all guilty of it at times. But best to try and keep a handle on it.

Your frustration is understandable though, and I applaud your willingness to put action behind your words.



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by KwisatzHaderach
reply to post by DarthMuerte
 


You are one of the people I speak of. In the many threads I have seen you in you put forward no real ideas, you put forward sugar coated words of sweetness with no true substance or ideas for betterment. You merely complain and moan and when someone puts forward an idea you automatically shut it down as impossible.
You know, even the post you replied to had an "idea" in it. Why did you reject it out of hand?



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 02:51 PM
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reply to post by KwisatzHaderach
 

Okay well here is my shot at putting up and shutting up. JibbJedi posted this video in regards to this topic
youtu.be...
There is our proof, Bush "HAS BEEN FOUND GUILTY" of war cimes. Not to mention he also lied and misled me and all of my fellow Americans about the reason for attacking Iraq in the first place.Why don't we rally here in America by contacting our congressmen and senators, signing petitions and urging the F.B.I. our F.B.I. to locate, detain, and bring Former president George W. Bush to face charges for these war crimes to an International possibly U.N. backed court. I know this is a thing of the past but bringing Bush to justice would help right the wrong in a sense that it will show future leaders that if they abuse their power there will be consequences and also possibly bring a sense of closure and justice to the people of Iraq who suffered so much for these atrocities. If I get just 25 positive replies to this post, I will personally contact every congressman, senator, and local representatives for my state of Michigan and prepare a rough draft petition which I will also post here so others can help edit and perfect the petition.
Hopefully this goes somewhere even if we can't bring Bush to Justice we can at least show that we still do have and can use our personal powers as citizens and persuade politicians to act more morally responsible.

P.S. Thanks for that great video post JibbyJedi.
edit on 1-4-2012 by AscendingPhoenix because: Add Signature



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 02:52 PM
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reply to post by DarthMuerte
 


All right you put forward ideas I agree with you on some, but how do we institute such change. I have seen few ideas on such, and when put forward they are slammed by the masses.



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by loam
 


Yes there is nothing wrong with learning behind a computer screen, but you must be able to back up your information with action in the real world.



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by KwisatzHaderach
 



Originally posted by KwisatzHaderach
All right you put forward ideas I agree with you on some, but how do we institute such change. I have seen few ideas on such, and when put forward they are slammed by the masses.


Change is hard.

edit on 1-4-2012 by loam because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 02:55 PM
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reply to post by KwisatzHaderach
 



Originally posted by KwisatzHaderach
...you must be able to back up your information with action in the real world.


Education is action.



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 02:57 PM
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reply to post by Klassified
 


That is possible I admit when I am wrong, and reform my opinion. That is the beauty of being human I and others make others. I accept criticism graciously. Yet, when a good idea that has been well thought out is ignored and attacked maliciously it annoys me.



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