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Taureg's Descend Upon Timbuktu in bid to Recapture their Inheritance...

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posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 04:28 PM
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reply to post by Biliverdin
 


perhaps that is the case...but again...the final outcome will probably not be decided according to what many would consider 'democratic principles'. its sort of like the Temple Mount...Christians may compromise...Muslims and Jews...I don't believe that this is a reasonable expectation.

this popular idea that we should all get along doesn't appear to me to be a universal principle or natural law...

and Tauregs moving into Timbuktu, especially under the current global circumstances, based on what i've read about them, the city and their story as a people, whatever the outcome, will not be decided according to the ideals of peace at any cost.

The article says that they already have control of Timbuktu...which institution is going to tell them to vacate the premises? The UN? The Government of Mali?

on what grounds could such a demand be made?




posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 04:32 PM
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Originally posted by Chai_An
Thank you not many people know who she is, so refreshing when someone does.


As a woman who loves history, I try to look for women who have made history, and not just as an appendage of great men, there are plenty of books about wives, mistresses, courtesans or women who used sex for political gain, like Cleopatra, not so many about females in real positions of leadership. It is only in recent times that these women are even being studied, in the past, such an idea seemed ludicrous and was dismissed as myth. Tin Hinan is a prime example.



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 04:32 PM
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when the EU or United States or UN demand that the soldiers who overthrew the democratically elected government of Mali step down that is based upon International Law.

If you tell me that the descendants of a people have captured a city that it is generally understood that their ancestors founded...who can make them leave it? or share it?

whom should they share it with and why?
edit on 1-4-2012 by michaelbrux because: grammer



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 04:44 PM
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reply to post by Chai_An
 


some people could take an educated guess concerning the identity of your avatar. but if i did make an educated guess, i'd make sure i did it using more than one line of text to avoid a 20 point penalty.
edit on 1-4-2012 by michaelbrux because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 04:46 PM
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reply to post by michaelbrux
 


Natural law is a bull# argument. What do you think we developed sapience for? So we can continue to behave like animals fighting over a piece of territory?

If you had bothered to thoroughly read the link, you would see that the Tuareg didn't found Timbuktu. They may have used the territory to pitch their tents, and may want the entitlement to continue to have freedom to do so, and to come and go as they please, and they should be welcomed in doing so, and in directing the way in which Timbuktu develops, but beyond that, people live there and are as entitled to do so as the Tuaregs.

Refer as much as you like to the disagreement over Temple Mount, but that is still the same thing, people need to learn to share...or kill each other until there is no-one left to argue about it. Up to them really, but let's be realistic about it, there is no reason whatsoever that compromise cannot be sought, but compromise isn't wanted. Natural Law is bull. Natural Law is that throughout our history, humans have moved around, populations have shifted, and all of us came out of Africa. Shall we all go back there and claim the Rift Valley? Ridiculous.



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by michaelbrux
reply to post by Chai_An
 


some people could take an educated guess concerning the identity of your avatar. but if i did make an educated guess, i'd make sure i did it using more than one line of text to avoid a 20 point penalty.
edit on 1-4-2012 by michaelbrux because: (no reason given)


I linked on the first page to a wikipedia link about Chai_An's avatar. It is Tin Hinan.

Here...


Tin Hinan is the name given by the Tuareg to a 4th-century woman of prestige whose monumental tomb is located in the Sahara at Abalessa in the Ahaggar or Hoggar region of Algeria. The name means literally "she of the tents", but may be metaphorically translated as "mother of the tribe" (or "of us all") or even "queen of the camp" (the "camp" maybe referring to the group of tombs which surround hers).[1] She is sometimes referred to as "Queen of the Hoggar", and by the Tuareg as tamenoukalt which also means queen.


en.wikipedia.org...


edit on 1-4-2012 by Biliverdin because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 04:53 PM
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Originally posted by Biliverdin
reply to post by michaelbrux
 


Natural law is a bull# argument. What do you think we developed sapience for? So we can continue to behave like animals fighting over a piece of territory?

If you had bothered to thoroughly read the link, you would see that the Tuareg didn't found Timbuktu. They may have used the territory to pitch their tents, and may want the entitlement to continue to have freedom to do so, and to come and go as they please, and they should be welcomed in doing so, and in directing the way in which Timbuktu develops, but beyond that, people live there and are as entitled to do so as the Tuaregs.

Refer as much as you like to the disagreement over Temple Mount, but that is still the same thing, people need to learn to share...or kill each other until there is no-one left to argue about it. Up to them really, but let's be realistic about it, there is no reason whatsoever that compromise cannot be sought, but compromise isn't wanted. Natural Law is bull. Natural Law is that throughout our history, humans have moved around, populations have shifted, and all of us came out of Africa. Shall we all go back there and claim the Rift Valley? Ridiculous.


I read the link earlier today and I also read a few articles which dispute the Wikipedia entry...that being said...wiki can never be considered the final authority on something that occurred nearly 1000 years ago. I like wiki and use it often, but I don't use it as a soapbox to stand upon.

you can consider Natural Law bs all you like, but I accept it as a sign that not all rules are man-made and just because they are not man-made doesn't mean they don't have to be adhered to.

nevertheless...the world contains liars and these people know they are liars and they know that no one can prove this in a court of recognized law...so...until liars learn to embrace the idea of confession...violent conflict is the natural response.



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by michaelbrux
you can consider Natural Law bs all you like, but I accept it as a sign that not all rules are man-made and just because they are not man-made doesn't mean they don't have to be adhered to.


Rubbish argument. Totally rubbish. Whether laws are man-made or not, they serve a purpose...or they are abandoned. Most cannot even abide by the Ten Commandments, which, supposedly, were made by god...referring to natural law is a sure road to getting everyone chopped up. That is the law of the jungle after all. Survival of the fittest. How fit are you feeling?



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 04:58 PM
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reply to post by Biliverdin
 


wikipedia is a wonderful resource...however...when I said I could make an educated guess concerning the identity of the woman depicted in the avatar, i did so secretly knowing I have a deep connection with a houseful of women that look exactly like her.

and based on posts of the person and what she said regarding Tuareg women, I am also familiar with this reality of being able to manage their own affairs and live a life of their choosing...in short...i already know what a free person looks like.



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 05:00 PM
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reply to post by Biliverdin
 


I'm quite fit...you should ask someone whose opinion matters to you. they'll lead you down a safe path.

but it's becoming obvious that you are more interested in debunking me than talking about the developments in Mali.



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 05:01 PM
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Originally posted by michaelbrux
reply to post by Biliverdin
 


wikipedia is a wonderful resource...however...when I said I could make an educated guess concerning the identity of the woman depicted in the avatar, i did so secretly knowing I have a deep connection with a houseful of women that look exactly like her.

and based on posts of the person and what she said regarding Tuareg women, I am also familiar with this reality of being able to manage their own affairs and live a life of their choosing...in short...i already know what a free person looks like.


Well perhaps, in future, you could be less secretive about it and share such knowledge for the benefit of others that may be reading. This is history to be proud of and should be rejoiced and celebrated. No reason to hide your light under a bushel.



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 05:04 PM
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Originally posted by michaelbrux
I'm quite fit...you should ask someone whose opinion matters to you. they'll lead you down a safe path.

but it's becoming obvious that you are more interested in debunking me than talking about the developments in Mali.


When you yourself present any I will willingly do so, but you are the one that keeps referring to 'natural law' and Temple Mount as though it has even the remotest relevance to the topic in question. So, please, carry on and I will respond to that instead. I think that I have contributed plenty on that matter so far, you seem to be the one that is directing the debate off track. I'm here, I'm interested, I'm waiting.



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by Biliverdin

Originally posted by michaelbrux
reply to post by Biliverdin
 


wikipedia is a wonderful resource...however...when I said I could make an educated guess concerning the identity of the woman depicted in the avatar, i did so secretly knowing I have a deep connection with a houseful of women that look exactly like her.

and based on posts of the person and what she said regarding Tuareg women, I am also familiar with this reality of being able to manage their own affairs and live a life of their choosing...in short...i already know what a free person looks like.


Well perhaps, in future, you could be less secretive about it and share such knowledge for the benefit of others that may be reading. This is history to be proud of and should be rejoiced and celebrated. No reason to hide your light under a bushel.


i'm not being secretive...it doesn't matter if the woman depicted in the avatar resembles every woman in my house.

i often disagree with them.



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 05:09 PM
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reply to post by Biliverdin
 


in my second post i clearly stated 'order of the day'...assuming that everyone that read it would assume naturally that I'm linking events in Mali with similar events occuring elsewhere.

people are in a search for a greater truth...the one that applies directly to themselves.

perhaps you didn't see my thread regarding Israel being referred to as Jerusalem...just a few days ago...in American media.

this thread is the continuation of a trend...

hopefully, in the coming days and weeks I will begin threads focusing on people taking back things that belong to them...



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 05:23 PM
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Okay in the spirit of taking things back that belong to them...I hereby suggest that the women of the Muslim world, and particularly the Tuaregs, reclaim their great female ancestor...I believe she currently resides in a Belguim museum...

Tin Hinan, Queen of the Tuaregs...


In Abalessa, the ancient capital of the Hoggar region, there is the tomb of the famous Tuareg queen Tin Hinan.

About this famous ancestress of the Tuaregs following story is told: Tin Hinan came in the company of her maid-servant Takamat from Tafilalet in South Morocco to the Hoggar. There she became the first Tamenokalt (= Queen) of the Tuaregs and her fame was so great, that even today the Tuaregs call her »Mother of Us All«.

Her sepulchre was also a place of pilgrimage and worship, so there were found hints that inside this tomb healing sleep was practised.


www.myrine.at...


According to a legend, Tin Hinan was the first leader to unite the Tuareg world and establish a kingdom in the Ahaggar mountains. She was both heroine and matriarch and is believed to have come from Tafilalt oasis in the Atlas Mountains in the area of the modern Morocco in the 4th century/5th century.

About this famous ancestress of the Tuaregs following story is told: Tin Hinan came in the company of her maid-servant Takamat from Tafilalet in the Atlas Mountains Morocco to the Hoggar Algeria. There she became the first Tamenokalt (queen) of the Tuaregs and her fame was so great, that even today the Tuaregs call her "Mother of Us All."


anthrocivitas.net...


Tin Hinan is one such person whose deeds were so noteworthy that she is remembered as "The mother of us all" today by the Tuareg's.

There may be a glass ceiling these days but then it had steel shutters. She moulded a group of scattered tawshet [clans] into a great nation and became their first 'Queen'.

Leaving Morocco with her maid Takamat she moved east into the desert, the people were scattered she brought them together and gave them a common identity. Around 500 AD Tin Hinan led them south into the lands they now occupy.

Little remains of her reign; just a common memory and an abiding love and respect so much so they still celebrate her life with a festival. After all as the story goes she made them into the great nation that they are:

As with many legends there is often some supporting evidence to confirm their validity.



A woman's [I believe to be that of Tin Hinan] body was found with a number of grave artefacts such as bracelets [7 gold] and wooden drinking bowls, her tomb was never plundered [until 1920's 'archaeologist's got there] another quite stunning detail in her legend.


www.dailykos.com...

And not a single wikipedia link...



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 05:32 PM
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reply to post by Biliverdin
 


from what I know...they probably don't have much use for such things...

the Taureg obviously have someone, alive, among them that provides plenty of support to realize their goals as a people.

the Belgians did quite a job in that region...but all that's in the past and not worth reliving.

and wikipedia is great...don't stop using it...just try to not make it the final word.

if I used wiki as the final word i'd believe that Chicago was founded in 1837, despite the fact that it appears on French maps dated in the late 17th Century.



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 05:35 PM
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reply to post by michaelbrux
 


Did you watch the documentary that I linked to? (I fixed the initially broken link). From that documentary, I get the impression that their history is very important to them. They certainly aren't willing to part easily with their written accounts. I would have thought that this great woman, the first leader to unite all the disparate tribed of the Tuaregs would be of paramount importance to them.



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by michaelbrux
if I used wiki as the final word i'd believe that Chicago was founded in 1837, despite the fact that it appears on French maps dated in the late 17th Century.


It was founded as a city at that time, a settlement may have existed there prior to that time, but founding a city is a different kettle of fish...it is about laws and ordnance...the such-like. General administrative nonsense.



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 05:45 PM
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reply to post by Biliverdin
 


if it showed up on a map that was produced for the King of France, I'm sure it was the real deal, a full blown city.

besides, if you ever saw Chicago, you'd immediately realized that there is no way that it is what it is in less than two hundred years.

Wiki doesn't usurp the authority of common sense...or does it?



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 05:47 PM
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reply to post by Biliverdin
 


I didn't watch it, i'm waiting for more info from the front line in Timbuktu...I don't care about the past only the present...

the next thing I post will be an article describing who Mali has capitulated to the demands of the Taureg, probably.



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