Email and web use 'to be monitored' under new laws

What's annoying about it to me is that it's all out in the open, yet seemingly not a problem to the average person. It should be mainstream talk on the street. I suppose they believe "if you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to worry about". Not to me. Not only can the things you "have to hide" expand (e.g, whether I'll have to hide myself coming to ATS in future - look at Sarkozy coming down on "extreme" sites, this could just as easily be one), but I just don't think they should be allowed to do it.

If the government want to do something, you go to a court with legal basis and evidence that access is needed to investigate a crime. Not anymore. I also wonder what "real time" means, they track constantly rather than request specific pieces of information after the fact? That's real scary...

We have only their word they will use this for the purpose they say so. I don't believe trust them

Let's be realistic here:

What can we do about it?

We can mask our I.P's via proxies or IP scrambler ? We can use software like 'ghostery' to monitor just who and what is tracking us.

But how do we actively protest and prevent this from taking place?

Is this just one step too far - is it time to take to the streets and fight with every last ounce of strength?

reply to post by AR154


it seems they are intent at locking down every avenue in our lives. i can see this coming back to haunt the establishment, however i do not think we are at the point of no return as of yet.

anyone seen mr cameron just prior and during the petrol malarky? anyone seen clegg as well? something is fishy here regarding their absences during this pathetic excercise in fear generation.

f.

Originally posted by mr-lizard
Let's be realistic here:

What can we do about it?

We can mask our I.P's via proxies or IP scrambler ? We can use software like 'ghostery' to monitor just who and what is tracking us.

But how do we actively protest and prevent this from taking place?

Is this just one step too far - is it time to take to the streets and fight with every last ounce of strength?

First, I would expect that there will be more people joining up with any effort Anon announces. There will be far more people using Tor too.

But ultimately I think we'll see protests on the streets. We did have protests against ACTA, but they weren't very large because the media was pretty silent about it.

As the BBC and Sky are both widely reporting this, and there are other shows which will pick up on it too, there is a good chance that there will be more and more people willing to actually protest it.

Originally posted by mr-lizard
Let's be realistic here:

What can we do about it?

We can mask our I.P's via proxies or IP scrambler ? We can use software like 'ghostery' to monitor just who and what is tracking us.

But how do we actively protest and prevent this from taking place?

Is this just one step too far - is it time to take to the streets and fight with every last ounce of strength?

The info will come from your ISP straight to the agency. Whatever data your computer sends to your router to the outside world, will at some point leave the ISP. Yes, you can prevent a website from seeing your IP (that your ISP gives you), but the agency is not going to the website to get your IP (well, they are all the time, so are copyright organisations, but that's not relevant to this bill ), they're going to your ISP to see what data leaves your house, even before you make some connection to a proxy. Unless anyone knows otherwise for certain let me know, but from my understanding that's how it works, it'd be very difficult to hide everything from your own ISP.

How do you connect to the Tor peers/servers? Through your ISP?

Even if you do find a way to encrypt the data that your isp sees between you, their routers (which all data must go through, at least initially, otherwise why would you need an ISP?) and your destination, what if all encrypted data other than for authorised uses (online banking, shopping) was to be made a crime in itself?

The only real solution IMO would be to create our own private internet through wireless means...

reply to post by detachedindividual


Some of the comments on the BBC website are quite inspiring to be fair. People are disgusted and there's riot/protest talk.

My prediction is that May will be the time of the next riots.

Originally posted by mr-lizard
reply to post by detachedindividual

 

Some of the comments on the BBC website are quite inspiring to be fair. People are disgusted and there's riot/protest talk.

My prediction is that May will be the time of the next riots.

I think it depends. When are we expecting Greece to default?

There's a lot that could kick it off, whether it's union protests or the May 1st global general strike being planned - it's definitely going to be an interesting summer.

Originally posted by AR154

Originally posted by mr-lizard
Let's be realistic here:

What can we do about it?

We can mask our I.P's via proxies or IP scrambler ? We can use software like 'ghostery' to monitor just who and what is tracking us.

But how do we actively protest and prevent this from taking place?

Is this just one step too far - is it time to take to the streets and fight with every last ounce of strength?

The info will come from your ISP straight to the agency. Whatever data your computer sends to your router to the outside world, will at some point leave the ISP. Yes, you can prevent a website from seeing your IP (that your ISP gives you), but the agency is not going to the website to get your IP (well, they are all the time, so are copyright organisations, but that's not relevant to this bill

), they're going to your ISP to see what data leaves your house, even before you make some connection to a proxy. Unless anyone knows otherwise for certain let me know, but from my understanding that's how it works, it'd be very difficult to hide everything from your own ISP.

How do you connect to the Tor peers/servers? Through your ISP?

edit on 1-4-2012 by AR154 because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-4-2012 by AR154 because: (no reason given)

Here's some info on TOR

I've not used it yet - but maybe you can explain once you've read it here?

www.torproject.org...

Originally posted by AR154

The key thing to remember is that this is warrantless. No permission, no oversight. I'm of the belief that they're already doing this anyway and have since 9/11, so god knows what they're up to if there's now a 'public' bill for it. It wouldn't have to be limited to 'terrorism' - infact, terrorism could be anything they want it to be.

But of course they are. We've BEEN doing it. It happens a lot. Not totally, to be sure, and there's some quid pro quo that goes on, but sure, it happens and has been.

How, you may ask. Well, I'm pretty sure there's a couple of things going on.

One, I knew a guy from one of your intelligence groups who said they could intercept any internal electronic communication. Not so much deep interpretation like Echelon, but that they could do something more CALEA like and just divert email traffic or phone calls to a monitoring point if they decided to sniff through your private life.

But more directly, UKUSA provides for it. We both milk that cow. If MI5 needs someone in GB surveilled, all they have to do is let us know and it will happen. The upside of that is that there ARE no laws that say the US can't spy on Brits at the behest of the British government, so if your JIC gives us a list and asks us to forward them everything Nigel is doing, we'll be happy to oblige. By treaty law, we can divulge this info to YOU, as long as you don't acquire it yourself you can use it internally.

The same way, if there are US citizens we'd like to snoop on and we can't just get a warrant because all the conspirators are US citizens, and thus you can't get a FISA warrant, we just ask YOU guys to use our shared parts of Echelon to do it. You spy on our citizens, and through the same treaty law, if YOU provide us info, it is actionable, even if we asked you to do it.

The holdup is that by disclosing who you want us to spy on, and vice versa, it's usually something juicy going on internal to the upper levels of the other side's gubmint, and thus to ask the other guys is to expose something they will naturally be interested in, so for the most part it doesn't happen as often as it could.

This is one reason we have shared facilities - e.g. Pine Gap. It's not because Alice Springs is the garden spot of central Australia. Trust me. True, we need a ground facility in the area to monitor China. And there are "my country only" sections in the facility, but a lot of it is happily shared like two toddlers with a toy truck.

I am, like many others angered by this legislation

But let's look at it in perspective for the moment. We don't have opposition groups or dissenters being arbitrarily imprisoned or silenced.

It is also important to note this comment from a Home Office spokesperson in an article by the Independent:

“Communications data includes time, duration and dialling numbers of a phone call, or an email address. It does not include the content of any phone call or email and it is not the intention of Government to make changes to the existing legal basis for the interception of communications.”

The Independent

Now it might not contain the specific content of phone calls or e-mails etc, but I've not doubt in my mind that they have this capability.

What we have right now is just a different and more sinister form of oppression, which seems little by little to be increasing.

We have seen that the police have clamped down heavily on protesters and rioters and are looking at using tear gas and water cannons in any future disturbances. The sad fact is many people are so apathetic and ignorant of what's going on that they simply do not care. For those who do care there is nothing that can be done.

Protesting is quite frankly useless and has been demonised by the media. Any protesters are portrayed as anarchist rabble out to cause trouble and wanton damage. The Iraq War saw the largest mass protest in UK history. It was a peaceful protest and it was utterly ignored by the government.

Any politicans who attempt to step up to the plate such as George Galloway or Nigel Farrage are depicted by the government and media as fringe politicans with little influence or clout or quite simply as loonies.

Labour tried to pass this through when in power but it was met with huge opposition from the Conservatives, yet low and behold they're now in power and have somehow turned around and are now in favour of it!

reply to post by mr-lizard


my understanding of tor is it allows one to mask against general script kiddies and hackers. what it does not do is protect against sophisticated agencies. my humble opinion.
smtp (simple mail transfer protocol) for e-mail is only secure as long as the intermediary servers which it runs through all use tls (transport layer security) even then i would look into encryption between sender and recipient.

legislation is already in place for the authorities to demand the cypher key should they feel it is in the interests of national security.


f.

If MP's vote for this to go through, Comming the next election, they will pay for it. Anyone resident in the UK. I advice you to write to your MP demanding that he or she vote against this Draconian move by the UK Government.

If they refuse to do so. Let them know they have lost your vote.

Another nail in the Coffin for us Brits.

And people just watch what you put on sites such as this. Aka to talking about riots or protests, it can be interpreted wrong. As what happened with other individuals.

The quicker we get ride of this coalition Government the better.

reply to post by AnonymousFem


the eyes have it, the eyes have it. what will be interesting will be the list of those who push this through from the commons to the other place. it will also be interesting to find out the members register of interests and if these interests can be construed as conflict of interest.
my current perception of the coalition is one of fragmented/self-serving career conmen (not all mind you) who are doing their very best to undermine society and layer more and more control over the good people. this seems to me they are close to losing their grip and legislation of this manner is an attempt to further their stability of tenureship.
we shall see.
f.

reply to post by fakedirt


Well with what has happened over the weekend with the Police Racist Incident, you would think the Police and the Government would have learned from the previous riots. But it obviously seems not It just goes to show it is one rule for the ordinary citizens in the UK and another rule for those in the Police, Political classes.

Funny how one student who posted a couple of racist comments on twitter is given 56 days in prison, but a Officer of the law who racially abuses and assaults a black man, and who's case is dropped by the cps and the ipcc. Anyone see the double standards here?

Society is once again on a thin line. I can see riots kicking off once again, if those in authority do not watch what they are doing. Bringing this in is nothing more than trying to control Every citizen in this country. We the public should remind those in power. That is country is Not CHINA nor is it North Korea.

They are trying to distract the masses with the Olympics saying that everything is great and we all get along... there are no problems in Society.... our people love the Government here and the Queen and everything else this great Country has to offer..... so roll forward to the Olympics where the whole World will see we all live in harmony!!

Its a shame the Brits do'n read and understand their own history, since 1066, when William 'the bastard' invaded England, 'UK' did not exist then, the Brits have been 'under the thumb' the 'establishment' has had all that time to hone their skills in keeping the Brits where they are, under the thumb.

I always thought they were already monitored? On CNBC they ran a story about Big Brother Big Advertisement

www.youtube.com... Not really in order or anything but just a starting point and I see this is from the UK and my link is from the US but honestly I don't really see this all as being vastly different from one another.

Invasion of privacy.. how would that work for international stuff? for example, someone from the US e-mails someone in the UK or calls etc... That violates the privacy of both parties, while ones privacy in one country may no longer be protected due to the law, what about the other person?

Originally posted by Majestic Lumen
Invasion of privacy.. how would that work for international stuff? for example, someone from the US e-mails someone in the UK or calls etc... That violates the privacy of both parties, while ones privacy in one country may no longer be protected due to the law, what about the other person?

Well, the US government can already do all of this and more under the Patriot Act, so for American's there's no difference. I'm guessing the UK government will be able to see limited info as it'll be supplied through UK ISP's, so their reach would presumably be limited once something crosses international lines.

But like I said, American's gave away their privacy to the government a long time ago, so that issue really is pretty moot.

USE HTTPS for email and tor for browsing, make it hard for them.